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Landlord moving back into property. Length of notice required for tenant

  • 05-10-2022 4:39pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 9,794 ✭✭✭


    House owner is moving back to their own house to live there (for work).

    What length of notice do they have to give a tenant to move out (the tenant has been living there for about 4 years).



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭Zverklez


    180 days, from the official Notice of Termination being received



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,794 ✭✭✭take everything


    Thanks.

    And there's no way around that?

    Seems a bit mad that a landlord mightn't be able to move back into their own home because of this (unless they had to stay with the tenant).

    Is this a recent thing (from July this year?).



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    It's part of what makes Modern Ireland wonderful! A succession of incompetent governments have been wholly unable to solve a long-running national housing crisis so, in a pathetic effort to save some face, they have decided to punish landlords.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭meijin


    seems mad that you sign a contract, under a specific law, with certain expectations from the tenant for the security of their life, and then want to cancel it on a whim

    that didn't change recently

    and no, you cannot move in with your tenant

    the notice period depends on the length of tenancy https://www.rtb.ie/ending-a-tenancy/notice-periods-that-a-landlord-should-give

    recent changes: https://www.rtb.ie/regulation-of-providers-of-building-works-and-miscellaneous-provisions-act-2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,978 ✭✭✭Caranica


    And there's no guarantees the tenant will move out by the end of the notice period so I'd warn against counting any chickens about moving back in!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 287 ✭✭dennis72


    He might not get it back if labour had there way they want a blanket ban on evictions for the winter similar to the covid one

    Chances are this is politically popular which makes paying rent voluntary

    Why are shops allowed to charge for food...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭DubCount


    and people wonder why there are fewer and fewer rentals available in Ireland......

    Anyway, just to note for OP. The format of your eviction notice must be in the format proscribed by the RTB, and the notice of eviction must be lodged with and notified to the RTB on exactly the same date that the notice is served to the tenant. Any mistake, and the eviction notice could be deemed invalid, and you could go back to square 1.

    The government, the opposition parties, the media, the "Homeless charities" have all pushed to make evictions more and more difficult. This helps out in the short term, because it pushes the problems of homelessness on to private landlords, and saves the local councils from dealing with it. Long term, it just means less landlords and less rentals which makes the whole thing worse - not better. Back in the day, a property rental was just a contract between 2 adults who agreed on the terms and conditions and got on with life. Now, its become one of the most highly regulated industries in the country. OP is a landlord who has rented out his property in the past, and after going through the legal hoops to get an eviction, will never rent it out again. That also seems mad.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭Xterminator


    what a tone deaf post.

    you want to evict paying tenants. the law allows you to do this but balances your rights, with the tenants, and allows tenant time to try to find a new place to stay, which in the current market condition is very very difficult.

    do you wish you could dump their belongings on the side of the road? Do you have any appreciation for the problems your decision will visit on your tenants? Because if you do, your post did not reflect this. The property they rent is their home right now!

    Of course a landlord should be able to move back into in their own property if they choose to do so. But this needs to be balanced with the rights of a tenant and the security of tenure of people who rent. Renters who meet their obligations (eg pay their rent) should have a security of tenure not be disposable at a whim.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭DubCount



    Balance is important.

    Over the last number of years there have been lots of changes to Residential Letting Legislation. The following list just covers what amendments have been made to main 2004 Act that I can find:

    • Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act 2009 (2/2009)

    • Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 (22/2009)

    • Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act 2015 (42/2015)

    • Planning and Development (Housing) and Residential Tenancies Act 2016 (17/2016)

    • Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act 2019 (14/2019)

    • Local Government Rates and other Matters Act 2019 (24/2019)

    • Residential Tenancies and Valuation Act 2020 (7/2020)

    • Residential Tenancies Act 2020 (17/2020)

    • Planning and Development, and Residential Tenancies, Act 2020 (27/2020)

    • Residential Tenancies Act 2021 (5/2021)

    • Residential Tenancies (No. 2) Act 2021 (17/2021)

    • Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act 2021 (39/2021)

    • Regulation of Providers of Building Works and Miscellaneous Provisions Act 2022 (15/2022)

    In the interests of balance, I would like anyone to provide just 1 item in this lot that is in favour of Landlords. The truth is there is no balance, and there are no calls for balance. Its just more and more pro-tenant rules.

    Also on the subject of balance. Indefinite tenancies are only ever discussed in terms of the Landlords commitment to the arrangement. What about balance in terms of the tenants commitment. Nobody suggesting a financial penalty on a tenant that breaks a long term commitment. It seems they should be free to walk away from their home at a whim, but not so lax a commitment from the LL.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I had a non-paying tenant from about mid-October 2019. Started the eviction process, eventually got an RTB order for him to leave towards the end of December, but they gave him an extra couple of months 'because it was Christmas". He paid some of it back, but was returning to France and couldn't pay rent because "he was saving for a new place". He was applying for HAP while this was going on, but by the official eviction date he owed about 3 grand.

    That eviction date was 12th March 2020.

    Covid came to town, as did the eviction ban and the €350 per week PUP, so he was now faced with a choice: Go back to France and find a new place to stay and a new job. Or remain here, get paid his PUP and continue to not pay rent. I was owed just over €10k by the time he texted me to say he was in the airport heading home and the HAP application forms were left in the apartment for me to file on his behalf (which is illegal to do).

    Couldn't sell the place quickly enough after that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,794 ✭✭✭take everything


    First off, I am not a landlord and do not own a house. I never said I was.

    I am merely enquiring because my sibling is and owns their own home.

    And yes, I genuinely find it shocking that they can't get their home back after a reasonable length of time. Some here are saying even after 6 months this may not be a certainty.

    That is appalling and kinda scary tbh. And again this is from someone who isn't a landlord or owns property.



  • Registered Users Posts: 404 ✭✭ULMarc


    That's a very single minded attitude on the matter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,283 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Lookit, you always hear the horror stories here and very rarely the (much more common, I suspect) good ones. If your sister's tenant has been hassle-free thus far then there's no reason to assume they're suddenly going to turn into an overholding dickhead just because she wants the house back. I rented the same house for 9 years, it went on the market earlier this year. I was absolutely devastated but I packed up and left on the agreed date because I'm not a twat and neither are the vast, vast majority of people.

    The 180 days' notice may seem excessive to your sister but as others have said, it's there to give the tenant a realistic (well, realistic prior to the current market) chance of finding somewhere else. As it happened, I couldn't and am back living with my folks. It became clear to me pretty immediately that I was really going to struggle to find somewhere else but did it cross my mind for a second to overhold? No, because I'm a reasonable person and chances are your sister's tenant is too. No need to assume the worst just yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,794 ✭✭✭take everything


    This is like a new clown world I have entered where your property is no longer yours to do with as you wish.



  • Registered Users Posts: 607 ✭✭✭MakersMark


    The shocking thing is that when the tenants don't move out there's nothing you can do.


    My tenants are overholding since May. RTB take 21 days to respond to emails. They have only just now acknowledged that they are starting to look at my dispute.


    Landlords have no rights.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,794 ✭✭✭take everything


    The irony is my sibling is more at risk of homelessness now compared to their tenant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 45 MV33


    You are the perfect example of a “have a go” landlord with whom I’m delighted are leaving the rental market.

    How the fcuk does a Landlord not know the notice period on properties?

    Leave the rental market to the professional investment companies.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Nonsense, both sides are obliged to abide by the terms of the rental agreement which includes the (a) the rent payable, and (b) length of notice to be given at the end of the tenancy. If both sides do, then there's no problem.

    The problem is that if the tenant (a) fails to pay the agreed rent or (b) overstays their notice, our invertebrate government has adopted a Pontius Pilate approach and won't lift a finger to support the landlord. Which is both despicable and contemptible. But even more contempt must be directed at the opposition parties (most recently at the witless Iwanna Backache) whose evident hatred for landlords can be seen in the unending demands that they are making of the government to legalise the non-eviction of delinquent tenants.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,794 ✭✭✭take everything


    @MV33

    I am not a landlord.

    Please read the thread before attacking me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,978 ✭✭✭Caranica


    Plenty of examples of this on this forum. It is what it is



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yep. We vote for donkeys to govern us and then express surprise when they hee-haw.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,974 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    They didn't have to rent out their property. You can't just play with peoples lives. What are the tenants supposed to do? Pack up their entire lives in a month or so?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,950 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    You're being disingenuous.

    Technically it's your siblings property but not their "home" as they don't live there, and haven't for a long time.

    It's is however the tenants "home" and they do live there and have for a long time.

    That's the way the legislation looks at it. That's all that matters.

    We've had housing crisis for a long time so you just can't plead ignorance of both the crisis and the legislation, when planning where you are going to work and thus live.

    You can't agree to a long term rental then want short term rental rules on a whim.

    What's appalling and scary is how oblivious you are to all this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,950 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The reason the housing is so dysfunctional is because successive govt don't care about it. There is no other way to explain such a lack of action on it. Landlords are voting with their feet and leaving. Says it all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,707 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    What is more appalling is to have someone who makes decisions related to a (presumably valuable) asset, yet apparently doesn't understand the basics of what they are getting into.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,707 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    I've never seen the same kind of "woe is me" attitude related to any other business, given that most can get shafted by a customer that does not pay. I've never heard a house painter complain about "da gubbermnint" because a customer might decide not to pay them after they paint their house. I've never heard a bricklayer complaining about the government because someone might not pay them for a days work putting up a garden wall etc. A subcontractor who supplies some fittings who doesn't get paid likely won't get those fitting back, but I've never heard one complain about "Iwanna Backache".



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭DBK1


    I suppose the difference in your examples is “da gubbermnint” equally don’t tell that painter or brick layer that by law they have to stay painting, or building that wall, every day without their wages for anything that could be between 6 - 12 months and tough s**t, suck it up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,950 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Plenty examples of builders and tradesman ripping out their work when people refuse to pay.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not even close to a good comparison and shows a complete lack of understanding as to the difficulties landlords are facing with problem tenants. The government doesn't force anybody in a trade to continue working for free for years until a resolution can be reached. The trades person is also not likely to have to spend thousands on new tools or have to refurbish their work van if they come across a difficult customer.

    A rental property should be no different than renting a car, once the property meets current standards the lease should be the deciding factor when it comes to disputes. There should be no regulation on lease lengths or rental price limits. We don't artificially limit the maximum cost of other essential items like fuel, energy and food.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    I genuinely find it shocking that they can't get their home back

    The problem is precisely what you have written here. Your sibling has been living somewhere else. That somewhere else is/has been their home for some time now.

    The house your sibling owns is somebody else's home and has been apparently for the last four years.

    So maybe you could re-write your posts and remove the word home and replace it with something else that reflects the reality of the situation.



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