Landlord moving back into property. Length of notice required for tenant

take everything

House owner is moving back to their own house to live there (for work).

What length of notice do they have to give a tenant to move out (the tenant has been living there for about 4 years).

Zverklez

180 days, from the official Notice of Termination being received

take everything

Thanks.

And there's no way around that?

Seems a bit mad that a landlord mightn't be able to move back into their own home because of this (unless they had to stay with the tenant).

Is this a recent thing (from July this year?).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705680#Comment_119705680

It's part of what makes Modern Ireland wonderful! A succession of incompetent governments have been wholly unable to solve a long-running national housing crisis so, in a pathetic effort to save some face, they have decided to punish landlords.

meijin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705680#Comment_119705680

seems mad that you sign a contract, under a specific law, with certain expectations from the tenant for the security of their life, and then want to cancel it on a whim

that didn't change recently

and no, you cannot move in with your tenant

the notice period depends on the length of tenancy https://www.rtb.ie/ending-a-tenancy/notice-periods-that-a-landlord-should-give

recent changes: https://www.rtb.ie/regulation-of-providers-of-building-works-and-miscellaneous-provisions-act-2022

Caranica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705680#Comment_119705680

And there's no guarantees the tenant will move out by the end of the notice period so I'd warn against counting any chickens about moving back in!

dennis72

He might not get it back if labour had there way they want a blanket ban on evictions for the winter similar to the covid one

Chances are this is politically popular which makes paying rent voluntary

Why are shops allowed to charge for food...

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706061#Comment_119706061

and people wonder why there are fewer and fewer rentals available in Ireland......

Anyway, just to note for OP. The format of your eviction notice must be in the format proscribed by the RTB, and the notice of eviction must be lodged with and notified to the RTB on exactly the same date that the notice is served to the tenant. Any mistake, and the eviction notice could be deemed invalid, and you could go back to square 1.

The government, the opposition parties, the media, the "Homeless charities" have all pushed to make evictions more and more difficult. This helps out in the short term, because it pushes the problems of homelessness on to private landlords, and saves the local councils from dealing with it. Long term, it just means less landlords and less rentals which makes the whole thing worse - not better. Back in the day, a property rental was just a contract between 2 adults who agreed on the terms and conditions and got on with life. Now, its become one of the most highly regulated industries in the country. OP is a landlord who has rented out his property in the past, and after going through the legal hoops to get an eviction, will never rent it out again. That also seems mad.....

Xterminator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705680#Comment_119705680

what a tone deaf post.

you want to evict paying tenants. the law allows you to do this but balances your rights, with the tenants, and allows tenant time to try to find a new place to stay, which in the current market condition is very very difficult.

do you wish you could dump their belongings on the side of the road? Do you have any appreciation for the problems your decision will visit on your tenants? Because if you do, your post did not reflect this. The property they rent is their home right now!

Of course a landlord should be able to move back into in their own property if they choose to do so. But this needs to be balanced with the rights of a tenant and the security of tenure of people who rent. Renters who meet their obligations (eg pay their rent) should have a security of tenure not be disposable at a whim.

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119708130#Comment_119708130

Balance is important.

Over the last number of years there have been lots of changes to Residential Letting Legislation. The following list just covers what amendments have been made to main 2004 Act that I can find:

• Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act 2009 (2/2009)

• Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 (22/2009)

• Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act 2015 (42/2015)

• Planning and Development (Housing) and Residential Tenancies Act 2016 (17/2016)

• Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act 2019 (14/2019)

• Local Government Rates and other Matters Act 2019 (24/2019)

• Residential Tenancies and Valuation Act 2020 (7/2020)

• Residential Tenancies Act 2020 (17/2020)

• Planning and Development, and Residential Tenancies, Act 2020 (27/2020)

• Residential Tenancies Act 2021 (5/2021)

• Residential Tenancies (No. 2) Act 2021 (17/2021)

• Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act 2021 (39/2021)

• Regulation of Providers of Building Works and Miscellaneous Provisions Act 2022 (15/2022)

In the interests of balance, I would like anyone to provide just 1 item in this lot that is in favour of Landlords. The truth is there is no balance, and there are no calls for balance. Its just more and more pro-tenant rules.

Also on the subject of balance. Indefinite tenancies are only ever discussed in terms of the Landlords commitment to the arrangement. What about balance in terms of the tenants commitment. Nobody suggesting a financial penalty on a tenant that breaks a long term commitment. It seems they should be free to walk away from their home at a whim, but not so lax a commitment from the LL.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707411#Comment_119707411

I had a non-paying tenant from about mid-October 2019. Started the eviction process, eventually got an RTB order for him to leave towards the end of December, but they gave him an extra couple of months 'because it was Christmas". He paid some of it back, but was returning to France and couldn't pay rent because "he was saving for a new place". He was applying for HAP while this was going on, but by the official eviction date he owed about 3 grand.

That eviction date was 12th March 2020.

Covid came to town, as did the eviction ban and the €350 per week PUP, so he was now faced with a choice: Go back to France and find a new place to stay and a new job. Or remain here, get paid his PUP and continue to not pay rent. I was owed just over €10k by the time he texted me to say he was in the airport heading home and the HAP application forms were left in the apartment for me to file on his behalf (which is illegal to do).

Couldn't sell the place quickly enough after that.

take everything

First off, I am not a landlord and do not own a house. I never said I was.

I am merely enquiring because my sibling is and owns their own home.

And yes, I genuinely find it shocking that they can't get their home back after a reasonable length of time. Some here are saying even after 6 months this may not be a certainty.

That is appalling and kinda scary tbh. And again this is from someone who isn't a landlord or owns property.

ULMarc

That's a very single minded attitude on the matter.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119709922#Comment_119709922

Lookit, you always hear the horror stories here and very rarely the (much more common, I suspect) good ones. If your sister's tenant has been hassle-free thus far then there's no reason to assume they're suddenly going to turn into an overholding dickhead just because she wants the house back. I rented the same house for 9 years, it went on the market earlier this year. I was absolutely devastated but I packed up and left on the agreed date because I'm not a twat and neither are the vast, vast majority of people.

The 180 days' notice may seem excessive to your sister but as others have said, it's there to give the tenant a realistic (well, realistic prior to the current market) chance of finding somewhere else. As it happened, I couldn't and am back living with my folks. It became clear to me pretty immediately that I was really going to struggle to find somewhere else but did it cross my mind for a second to overhold? No, because I'm a reasonable person and chances are your sister's tenant is too. No need to assume the worst just yet.

take everything

This is like a new clown world I have entered where your property is no longer yours to do with as you wish.

MakersMark

The shocking thing is that when the tenants don't move out there's nothing you can do.

My tenants are overholding since May. RTB take 21 days to respond to emails. They have only just now acknowledged that they are starting to look at my dispute.

Landlords have no rights.

take everything

The irony is my sibling is more at risk of homelessness now compared to their tenant.

MV33

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119709968#Comment_119709968

You are the perfect example of a “have a go” landlord with whom I’m delighted are leaving the rental market.

How the fcuk does a Landlord not know the notice period on properties?

Leave the rental market to the professional investment companies.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119709968#Comment_119709968

Nonsense, both sides are obliged to abide by the terms of the rental agreement which includes the (a) the rent payable, and (b) length of notice to be given at the end of the tenancy. If both sides do, then there's no problem.

The problem is that if the tenant (a) fails to pay the agreed rent or (b) overstays their notice, our invertebrate government has adopted a Pontius Pilate approach and won't lift a finger to support the landlord. Which is both despicable and contemptible. But even more contempt must be directed at the opposition parties (most recently at the witless Iwanna Backache) whose evident hatred for landlords can be seen in the unending demands that they are making of the government to legalise the non-eviction of delinquent tenants.

take everything

@MV33

I am not a landlord.

Please read the thread before attacking me.

Caranica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119709985#Comment_119709985

Plenty of examples of this on this forum. It is what it is

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119710528#Comment_119710528

Yep. We vote for donkeys to govern us and then express surprise when they hee-haw.

Giblet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119709985#Comment_119709985

They didn't have to rent out their property. You can't just play with peoples lives. What are the tenants supposed to do? Pack up their entire lives in a month or so?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119709922#Comment_119709922

You're being disingenuous.

Technically it's your siblings property but not their "home" as they don't live there, and haven't for a long time.

It's is however the tenants "home" and they do live there and have for a long time.

That's the way the legislation looks at it. That's all that matters.

We've had housing crisis for a long time so you just can't plead ignorance of both the crisis and the legislation, when planning where you are going to work and thus live.

You can't agree to a long term rental then want short term rental rules on a whim.

What's appalling and scary is how oblivious you are to all this.

Flinty997

The reason the housing is so dysfunctional is because successive govt don't care about it. There is no other way to explain such a lack of action on it. Landlords are voting with their feet and leaving. Says it all.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119709922#Comment_119709922

What is more appalling is to have someone who makes decisions related to a (presumably valuable) asset, yet apparently doesn't understand the basics of what they are getting into.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119710003#Comment_119710003

I've never seen the same kind of "woe is me" attitude related to any other business, given that most can get shafted by a customer that does not pay. I've never heard a house painter complain about "da gubbermnint" because a customer might decide not to pay them after they paint their house. I've never heard a bricklayer complaining about the government because someone might not pay them for a days work putting up a garden wall etc. A subcontractor who supplies some fittings who doesn't get paid likely won't get those fitting back, but I've never heard one complain about "Iwanna Backache".

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711364#Comment_119711364

I suppose the difference in your examples is “da gubbermnint” equally don’t tell that painter or brick layer that by law they have to stay painting, or building that wall, every day without their wages for anything that could be between 6 - 12 months and tough s**t, suck it up.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711898#Comment_119711898

Plenty examples of builders and tradesman ripping out their work when people refuse to pay.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711364#Comment_119711364

Not even close to a good comparison and shows a complete lack of understanding as to the difficulties landlords are facing with problem tenants. The government doesn't force anybody in a trade to continue working for free for years until a resolution can be reached. The trades person is also not likely to have to spend thousands on new tools or have to refurbish their work van if they come across a difficult customer.

A rental property should be no different than renting a car, once the property meets current standards the lease should be the deciding factor when it comes to disputes. There should be no regulation on lease lengths or rental price limits. We don't artificially limit the maximum cost of other essential items like fuel, energy and food.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119709922#Comment_119709922

I genuinely find it shocking that they can't get their home back

The problem is precisely what you have written here. Your sibling has been living somewhere else. That somewhere else is/has been their home for some time now.

The house your sibling owns is somebody else's home and has been apparently for the last four years.

So maybe you could re-write your posts and remove the word home and replace it with something else that reflects the reality of the situation.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119709968#Comment_119709968

There is a lease in place. This lease effectively sells some of your sibling's rights for a thing called money. The people who have paid that money now have things called rights of their own which they have paid for.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711364#Comment_119711364

I suspect that your life has been so sheltered that you haven't seen very much beyond your bubble of complacency. So perhaps it's time that you raised yourself up off all fours and took a good look around you at the wider world. Alternatively, you could consider switching your reading from the tabloids to the broadsheets.

dennis72

Winter eviction ban those rented 3 bed semi are easy pickings for the guburment to part solve housing crisis

Glad I grabbed a place back early in the year better vacant, those unwanted LLs are stuck now.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712373#Comment_119712373

I advise you to stop whinging about "de gubbermint" and stop looking for handouts - whether monetary or legislative - and learn to take responsibility for your own decisions.

Never mind about the irony of going on about bubbles while simultaneously moaning that you have suddenly appeared that rules apply to you too and that there aren't dispensations for people who consider themselves "special". Reality hits and ya start crying, and then trying to project some waffle about bubbles onto others.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711898#Comment_119711898

And nobody tells you you have to continue renting to other people either.

If the wall is painted, you can't go and strip the paint off it. If you're a subcontractor and you haven't been paid for that freezer in that kitchen you fitted, then you can't go in a reef it back out no matter how much you want to. If you've given possession of your property to a tenant who stops paying, you can at least get it back eventually. But you made the decision to hand it over. That was your bad judgment.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712070#Comment_119712070

Interesting.

It appears though that my understanding is close to the factual reality than the whingers who are surprised to learn that they can't just rock up and evict someone for being a day late with rent like the appear to have thought they could.

MakersMark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119714082#Comment_119714082

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711364#Comment_119711364

Complete nonsense from you as usual.

Tenants can't really be evicted in less than 2 years, despite all legal procedures being follwed, and you know this.

Just more of your trolling.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119714111#Comment_119714111

2 year =/= forever.

If you can't manage the rules, don't play the game.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711364#Comment_119711364

I doubt there are many trades people who were partway through a big job and were forced to continue their service for a couple of years after the customer stopped paying. The trades person would pick up their tools and leave the customer to find some other fool.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119714075#Comment_119714075

I’m not getting into an argument with you because your arguments are idiotic. You’re not comparing apples with apples. No, you can’t strip the paint back off the walls but you can’t be forced to stay painting that same wall for months or even years after, you can walk away any time you like. The landlord can’t do that.

For what it’s worth I’m a renter, not a landlord. Not that that should make any difference to the debate. Anyone with any shred of common sense can clearly see how biased the whole system is towards the tenant.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119714124#Comment_119714124

Normal to decide the rules before the game not in the middle of it.

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119714124#Comment_119714124

Fewer and fewer landlords want to play this game.

Not much of an impact on landlords. They can invest their money elsewhere.

A big impact on tenants. Less places to rent, more expensive rent, lower quality rentals.

Not everyone can afford to buy, not everyone is settled on where they want to live long term. We need a rental market. When no suppliers want to play the game by the current rules, its not a good result for the customers.

The rules of the game are nuts - its time to change the rules.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119710001#Comment_119710001

Becase the legislation changes every few months. Can you imagine dealing with an organisation who gets backt to you 2-3 weeks after you send them an email. Can you imagine an organisation that did some sort of a software upgrade last Autumn and after it you could not log into your account, Can you imagine an organisation where you changed your email address and it virtually impossible to register you accounts.

By the way the same tenants are cribbing and crying about the profession investment companies.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711039#Comment_119711039

No they did not. However if they did not there would have been one less house rented for the last few years, one more homeless family. Nobody should consider renting any property that they may need back in the short term. However there are people who rented 1-2+ years ago that were going abroad short term who now arefinding it very hard to get there property back.

Problem for a homeowner is if the paperwork is any way incorrect the tenant can wait for the end of the notice period and object and the clock starts ticking again. Even if the paperwork is correct they can appeal on spurious grounds and the house owner has to go througt the appeals process. If a determination order is issued to a tenant the RTB will enforce it, if it to a LL they can f@@k off anf try to enforce it themselves.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711353#Comment_119711353

People made decisions maybe before COVID and got trapped abroad and government has changed legislation so much that tit is not a legal minefield they finf themselves in.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712204#Comment_119712204

Yet we wonder why we have a rental crisis. there is 60-70K vacant houses around the country. If half were rented it would definately impact on the rental problems. However most of these are houses that people may want back in the short term. Recently advised a friend not to rent his mother house. She had moved in with them and was wanted to rent it to help them pay for the granny flat they build. My advise was sell it but do not rent it. I gave the similar advice to a young couple who were going travelling for a year and thinking of renting out there apartment three months ago.

MV33

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715420#Comment_119715420

Nonsense. Legalisation does not change every few months, And even if it did a Landlord should know the rules. It’s 101 of Landlording.

The rental market should be a professional service in this country. The main fault of the Government is allowing any Tom, Dick and Harry become landlords.

The sooner amateur hour ends and actual professionals take over the better.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715420#Comment_119715420

Yet we wonder why we have a rental crisis. there is 60-70K vacant houses around the country. If half were rented it would definately impact on the rental problems. However most of these are houses that people may want back in the short term. Recently advised a friend not to rent his mother house. She had moved in with them and was wanted to rent it to help them pay for the granny flat they build. My advise was sell it but do not rent it. I gave the similar advice to a young couple who were going travelling for a year and thinking of renting out there apartment three months ago.

I this it's more like a couple of hundred thousand empty houses. I don't think this includes currently unused and underused religious buildings such as monasteries, convents, churches and the like. A great many towns around the country have properties of this sort in farily good nick that could be used as accommodation with a small financial input. It's not as if the various religious orders don't owe the state vast sums in unpaid compensation for abuse etc.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715605#Comment_119715605

9 times since the start of 2019.

You be delighted with the professional's when they charge you 30-50% more than smaller LL's

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715733#Comment_119715733

And it was a 4yr tenancy now 6yrs. Without a time machine is not possible to respond to goal posts that change that fast.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715637#Comment_119715637

If they were viable for a "small financial input" they wouldn't be empty.

Considering actual existing rentals are leaving the market. It's not simply about the properties.

MV33

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715733#Comment_119715733

Again Nonsense

Smaller Landlords charge market price like everyone else.

Have a go and accidental landlording should be banned in this country.

Bass Reeves

ALL larger LL ( those with more than 3-4 houses) increase these rent every time it is due.

It's smaller LL that were caught out by RPZ legislation. Most would have been slow increasing rents on good tenant's as they generally do not want hassle. My kids have all the rented at some stage. The larger the LL the dearer the rent.

Like many you have a chip on your shoulder about people around getting on in life.

There is the bigger issue we have where people will no longer let houses that are only going to be vacant for a short term ( 6 months to 2-3 years) as the risk associated to damage and repossession is too much.