Protecting yourself against the impending Sinn Fein "Wealth" grab

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667055#Comment_119667055

You were the one that asserted it wasnt.

Also, it's not the working majority that will drive another election, it will be a disagreement between the parties.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667109#Comment_119667109

I asserted nothing of the sort. Words put in my mouth will be fired back at you with interest.

I'll repeat, a SF / FF government will have a large working majority - and large working majorities translate into governments with long terms. That's a hard reality.

Look we get it, you don't like SF, no one is asking you to. But come into reality.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667136#Comment_119667136

It's a big jump to even assume there will be an SF/FF government in the first place tbh. I still think an FFG government is more likely but if the vote percentage goes 35 to SF 30 to FG and 15 to FF it will be interesting to see what happens.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667199#Comment_119667199

It's not a big jump at all. Talk to a Fianna Fail activist, talk to a FF TD after a couple of pints. They want out of the FG marraige.

It's exactly how voter and party sentiment is lining up.

I don't know where 30 percent for FG is going to come from with the latest polling, and the polling trends have been consistent. You're posting in hope rather than in reflection of reality.

ELM327

I'm not posting in hope, not sure where that's coming from. No one would disagree that FF want out, no one wants to be in the FFG government - it doesnt suit either party and was the option of last resort as not forming a government would have forced another election or a SF led government.

We're likely going to be in the same boat again after the next election. I can see you're particularly fervent about FFSF but I really don't think it's likely. Less unlikely than an FG SF of course, but still unlikely.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667255#Comment_119667255

I'm ferverent about anything. It's the coalition set-up that the numbers and sentiment are telling you will happen. It's being openly discussed by FF from top to bottom. SF are 1/5 to have the most amount of seats in the next Dail.

When you say 'unlikely', that's absolutely you posting in hope.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667255#Comment_119667255

I think the difference in the next election is that FF and FG will not be able to buy a transfer preference vote. Apart from their core ostrich voters, they have alienated themselves so far from the electorate that I cannot see them getting transfers which will be key to securing a seat. FG especially so. The massive majority and power they got in 2011, with no credible opposition, absolutely ruined them. Labour took the brunt in 2016 but FG will get a rude awakening next time out. And I say that having voted FG loyally for 20 years right up to 2011. They betrayed a lot of voters over the past 11 years and continue to do so. And the young people will not vote according to family loyalty like us older folks once did. Stupidly. We helped create the sham power swap which was a race to the bottom.

New Politics was another one....

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667273#Comment_119667273

SF had most seats last time and likely will again. Doesnt mean they will have a majority, or even be in government. I expect SF to have most seats but not be in government, again.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667255#Comment_119667255

No one would disagree that FF want out, no one wants to be in the FFG government 

We're likely going to be in the same boat again after the next election. 

You're contradicting yourself here. If FF are fed up with the current arrangement why would they put FG back in after the next election?

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667372#Comment_119667372

Who said they will have a majority? We haven't had a single party government since when, CJ Haughey?

Your expectation of SF not being in government, once again, is proffered in hope, not grounded in reality.

You're taking the most likely outcome, desperately branding it 'unlikely' based on nothing - and crossing your fingers that will do.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667372#Comment_119667372

The last majority government was in 1977.

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667028#Comment_119667028

For the top

1. property tax is a big tax earner. Remove that and you have to replace it with another tax. The wealth tax won’t cover that money. Water tax is not on residential so nobody will care.
2. remove min wage from USC. So let’s say you get 50c over the min, should you pay USC. Where is the fiscal cutoff
3. third rate of tax over 100,000. So if a couple, each earning 50k, with children etc and therefore will hit that threshold, you are going to hammer a very average family. Devil is in the detail of that.
4. tax take as a percent of GDP. That will have to be explained to me as I don’t understand so I won’t comment.
5. overhaul tax system to remove loopholes. Couldn’t agree more. That’s a good proposal.
6. Renegotiate with who ? The EU ? They closed that door long ago. Not happening.

SF will be in government soon. If not, they will be opposition ready for the one after. FG are dead, Leo is burying them. The greens are dead. FF will need independents and if they don’t get them SF will. It’s the collection of madmen from other smaller parties that might kill either party if they get into government.

SF have a massive problem with current taxpayers from a voting perspective. They say their vote is “working class” but I and many others object to that, as their core vote is in the non-working class.

They have some great speakers but also some loons. The great magic money tree does not exist.

They have not seperated themselves from NI politics. Mary Lou has no reason to go to NI and speak as if equal to Michelle O’Neill. Most people here couldn’t give a monkeys about NI, especially if it will cost them money. And NI population don’t care about us.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667391#Comment_119667391

Because the alternatives - Second party in opposition or coalition with SF - are worse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667392#Comment_119667392

I don't know where to start here. The prior post had stated "SF are 1/5 to have the most seats", as if this was some indication that they should be in government. I merely pointed that, while it is likely that they will have the most seats, it remains unlikely that they will be in government. I don't know where this groundswell of opinion seems to come from for SF+FF as likely SF, FF and most people who vote for SF or FF won't want it.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667448#Comment_119667448

1. Whenever the govt brings in a new tax, people always use the "what will we replace it with?" argument. Why does it need to be replaced? The country is running at a surplus already. Property tax is a scam and has been for years. It should have replaced stamp duty.
2. I don't know either. That's a detail for SF and the government to figure out.
3. Since when are my earnings taxed jointly with my partner? That point doesn't make sense.
4. 5. 6. I agree with you.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667456#Comment_119667456

Look ELM, you're going to have to stop putting words in other posters' mouths to save face. I verifiably did not say being 1/5 for most seats "was some sort of indication they should be in government".

You're repeating SF government is 'unlikely'. The meercats in Dublin Zoo could tell you that a SF led government is by far the most likely outcome. And you know what? They'd be right. Because that's what polling has been telling you for over two years, that's what Podge in the FF in cumann in Offaly will tell you, that's what anyone in the FF parlimentary party will tell you after a whiskey.

When you say 'unlikely' it makes you look foolish, because it's an incredibly foolish statement that will be proven wrong - unless we discover Mary Lou McDonald is Putin in disguise or something.

It's time to come into the realms of reality a little bit.

jimmybobbyschweiz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119662649#Comment_119662649

With SF; you will remember nothing of their past and you will be happy.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667456#Comment_119667456

I think you are right that shacking up with SF would not be in FF's own medium to long-term interests but if the scenario after the election is that SF is comfortably the largest party, with say in the high 60s seats, there would be such massive pressure on FF to facilitate an SF-led government rather than put a jaded FG, in power for nearly 15 years by that stage, back in, that I don't think they could resist.

I actually think FF would prefer if SF had the numbers to form a government without them or FG after the next GE as they are likely to be eviscerated in the following election if they cut a deal with SF but if your numbers are right they won't have that luxury.

TCP/IP

To get back to the OP if you have not been doing this already in full knowledge this might happen then you may have issues.

But all is not lost plenty of ways to help yourself from a potential money grab coming down the line but you should have started that a long time ago IMO.

Ubbquittious

Nobody protected themselves against the Fianna Gael wealth grab. People were rushing to sign up to their newfangled property tax and water charges in their droves and paying it gave them a lovely warm fuzzy feeling in their tummies. They also welcomed the new building regulations that pushed the cost of new houses through the absolute roof. If FG take your money it's grand but if SF do it tis terrible?

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667467#Comment_119667467

Your earnings can be jointly assessed if you are married couple.

Chips Lovell

For anyone who says how bad can they be compared to Fianna Fail and Fine Gael, well the obvious answer is that they could tax you even more than you are now (and despite what people say, we're not taxed that heavily, relatively speaking).

The problem for Sinn Fein though is that, much and all as they want to radically shake things up, they're terrified of becoming unpopular. This explains why a nominally left wing party opposes the property tax. The same thing will happen with any wealth tax. They'll exclude things like family homes, pension funds, farm land, i.e. the vast majority of private wealth in Ireland. They'll end up taxing a tiny sliver of wealth, the proceeds of which will probably barely cover the cost of administration.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667548#Comment_119667548

true, but you would only choose that if there were unused tax credits or tax band allowances.

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667738#Comment_119667738

Does the SF proposal to create a 100k tax band state per person or per household. You are jointly assessed for lots of things in the state now as a household regardless of using those shared tax credits. 100k per household would be a vast net of people.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667761#Comment_119667761

It's a proposal so I presume the details don't exist. What is income tax is household jointly assessed for that they don't opt into?

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667786#Comment_119667786

Not sure if spell check made a balls of your question

anyway. Mainly the various health tax credits and medical cards are assessed as a joint household income whether you choose to take the other partners tax credit or not. Your P21 balancing statement will show if it’s more beneficial to be jointly assessed and it often is. 100k band needs defining: it’s either each individual or it is per household. Each is vastly different from each other.

If the proposal is as you say “just a proposal “ then it hasn’t been costed and shouldn’t even get a mention. It’s nonsense talk akin to me saying I’ll win the lottery next week. Either they are serious about the alternative budget with real numbers or they are looking at that magic money tree again.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667836#Comment_119667836

So there is no forced joint assessment of income taxes. Other things yes, but not income taxes, which is what this proposal is aimed at.

RE the proposal, I took these from the SF website, as did the OP. Take it up with them if you have an issue with the sums not being done.

MakersMark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667028#Comment_119667028

Water isn't free and people should pay for it.

Hard working people shouldn't be penalised when they get paid o er 100k. They're already paying through the nose.

Wealth taxes are property grabs by definition. If you can't afford your wealth tax then you have to sell your house/business.

Progressive is somehow construed as good.

Our dole army of 150000 sits on its hole doing nothing. Generations of wasters.

Why can't they be forced to work even 1 hour a day?

"To each according to his need,from each according to his ability".

All those fookin wasters in Cherry Orchard ramming cops and cheering them on get 10s of thousands in free dole and houses and do nothing for it.

Maybe SF will tax the free time of the idle?

Murph85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666410#Comment_119666410

Thay got far more support than ffg! And if they , fg in particular, actually did the job, you probably claim they are doing. Looking after tax payers, they wouldnt have lost the amount of seats they did. Fg being more interested in the welfare state, than the working man, tells you the comedy that is Irish politics...

E12 rise a week on welfare likely tomorrow X 52 weeks = e624 better off over a year. What about a low income worker on 30K? It will be a damn sight less than e624!

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667935#Comment_119667935

If you are a SF bot, you are doing a shocking job. I found the page all that blurb was lifted from. It’s not even a wish list. There is a pdf outlining a alternative budget. That is the detail. The wealth tax is a solidarity tax of 3% for those individuals over 140k. Tax credit tapered removal from 100k upwards. Nothing about a wealth tax at 100k. They have costing and a huge wish list. A great deal of what is proposed is also in the labour, FG and FF wish list. They didn’t provide costings in theirs but SF did. Claimed €408m in one year. Property tax reduction of 20% with a increase in local authorities payments. So a tax. The headlines don’t match the document at all. Devil in the detail.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667028#Comment_119667028

For FG FF or whomever to pounce and come back into power.. the only way for any party to deliver themselves back into power would be courtesy of a fair and tamper proof election. Won’t be easy with a crooked shower of criminals and criminality enablers at the helm.

Sinn Fein and the IRA have been guilty of organising what was described by an ex IRA commander as… ‘endemic voter fraud’ since the 1980’s in Northern Ireland..

This week the SDLP in Foyle made an official complaint to the Election Office about the Westminster election, in which the number of proxy votes in the constituency shot up to more than 1,200 from 300 used in the 2015 election….

Sinn Fein we’re successfully accused of having members and supporters cause trouble at polling stations in NI to have them closed.

so yeah.. Sinn Fein 😵‍💫

power grab, wealth grab, property grab and democracy grab.