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Only 4% of houses with smart meters are on smart plans

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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,581 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I'm delighted. Same as the water meters, we have shown that when it comes to it (except for 4% of fools in this instance) that we are collectively not fools as a nation.

    I challenge anyone to give me a smart plan that comes within even 10% of my current FIXED rate of 28c day and 7c night. Real night too, not silly 2 hour boosts. My usage up to now has been nearly 3:1 Night to Day, and now that I have solar and 20kWh of storage installed it will be all solar (free) and night rate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,484 ✭✭✭micks_address


    im pretty sure they will as lots of folks have had it done.. but im not thinking about it yet



  • Registered Users Posts: 552 ✭✭✭idc


    yep my point was if you were on a day/night plan with electric ireland and can use that 2 hour window to your advantage then EI's night boost smart plan is actually cheaper than their day/night plan. but as you found yes there are other cheaper providers



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I've a smart meter in a holiday house, where I could very easily do some time based load shedding of a reasonable load by turning off dehumidification. The dehumidifiers are already on (2.9kW rated, and not Chinesium non-brand junk) smart sockets, I could programme in a time block for them right now. 22h (or 18h even I'd say) vs 24h dehumidification is not going to make a huge difference to the house.

    Except I'd end up paying more overall than I do now if I did change to a smart plan.

    That's an obscure enough example but there are probably tens of thousands of people in similar situation where a once off, low effort change would reduce peak load; without having to even remember basic things like doing your laundry at night.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,027 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    LOL, lalala climate change is fake, I don't care, just give me my cheap leccy, don't care if we just burn coal and thousands more people die from cancer every year?

    People like you will be catered for, you will just have to pay €1 per kWh on a 24h tariff within the next year or two. In the mean time more responsible people will welcome being rewarded for using clean energy and accept being punished for using dirty energy. Within reason of course, not the way it is currently implemented...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,831 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    surely you understsand why intermittent energy sources were connected to the grid and why they are good for us as a society?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    is got nothing to do with intermittent energy sources, this has always been the case



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    its got very little to do with foolishness or lack of it and a lot to do with people not even understanding they have a smart meter in the first place



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,881 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    We used to have one before it broke and had to be replaced, It had a time clock in it, with 2 separate meters.

    Now its a digital one.

    People have, a few here on boards have got it done recently. (and on the IEVOA facebook)


    If Smart meter plans were cheaper than day night, id be looking for a smart meter. but as it stands, I'm staying on the cheapest plan for me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,455 ✭✭✭KildareP


    They'll take it out so long as you are on an MCC01 (24-hour) tariff and not moved onto an MCC12 or MCC16 tariff, which are smart.

    Once you've gone to a smart tariff then you are stuck forevermore on it and they will refuse to replace it with a day/night meter.

    I don't understand why they can't at least match day/night plans - or offset the additional peak tariff with an equivalent reduction in the night unit rate, or even have the peak rate and a reduced standing charge (day/night standing charges are often higher than smart time of use).



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  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭curioustony


    First, I find the characterization of the 4% as fools offensive.

    I am an MCC12 customer. I am stuck. I have an open ticket with ESBN. Implications for both meter install costs and FIT are unclear.

    My decision to go with the smart plan was based on the data available to me and the plans available at that time. It has saved me money. Quite a lot. The comparison sites do not help enough with the selection of smart plans. Especially if you have solar and a battery. I have tried quite hard to make this point before, and also to make meaningful comparisons (tailored to individual usage) more accessible.

    The recent (very uneven) price rises in the market have changed the situation. Now the best D/N will save me even most ~360 from where I am now, and ~180 from the best smart plan. This will change again, and again. It is always a judgement call when to switch.

    I did not consider the suppliers (imo anti-competitive) obstruction of what should be a good thing. That does not make me a fool!

    🌞4.55 kWp, azimuth 136°, slope 24°, 5kW, 🛢️10.9kWh, Roscommon



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,532 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Reselling electricity is just such an obviously ridiculous premise that it should be part of a Monty Python sketch not a supposedly advanced economy.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭cloughy


    They said on the radio you could get information from ESB on usage, is this true, I'm with Energia and have smart meter, but not smart tariff.


    i would like to know my usage split, but can't get this AFAIK unless I opt for a smart tariff or look at readings every day/night, or can I get this information elsewhere?


    I have just installed Solar PV so now on Solis I can see what I use during the day, what's left in battery before I go to sleep and what's there in yhe morning/imported, but would expect that my usage is heavily daytime than nighttime, so a smart tariff provably won't be of benefit to me, unless I charge battery at night and use during the day. My consumption at the moment is 10-14Wh per day, and have a 5kW battery, but fir last week since PV install imported 31%, but that will go up now late Sept.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,459 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    The problem here is a lack of understanding what's available out there. You don't need a smart meter to understand your usage. If you invest in a €50-100 piece of tech (which anyone can install with no electrical knowledge) such as....

    Amazon.co.uk: Efergy Technologies

    and it will graph on the website your consumption by "minute", hour, day, etc. No solar installation involved

    Again, I still reckon it's a deliberate move on the behalf of the suppliers to position the smart tariffs as non-competitive compared to the 24/day-night tariffs for the moment. They don't want 10,000's of people clamoring for them. It's inconceivable to me that there simply isn't anyone in any of the suppliers who doesn't know Excel and look at their breakdowns. I'm sure they know EXACTLY how many people are on what tariff. Probably have charts in the monthly meetings :-)

    The problem is that with the recent media attention their plan may backfire, and they might have to make the tariffs more competitive .... which in turn may create the very problem they were trying to advert.

    Speculation on my part, but the alternative theory that every single employee in every one of the suppliers billing systems side are morons......is not feasible to me. They know exactly what they are doing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,484 ✭✭✭micks_address


    im with electric ireland with a smart meter but not smart tarrif.. i can see a breakdown on my account if i log in of electricity used on standby devices... laundry, lights etc..


    actual categories are:

    Always on

    Cooking

    Entertainment

    Laundry

    Water heating..



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭DC999


    Yeah, I have to agree. Providers have run the numbers and they will lose money to give more competitive smart tariff. So why bother if they are not forced too (which could be media attention like the press story, or some form of 'stick' from CRU / political pressure)?

    Btw, I'm pro smart meters as it's important we do shift our usage to help reduce emissions from the grid. Which you'd have to assume is the key benefit of them (not just to lay off the meter readers and replace old kit). But it's very hard for me to accept I should pay more for being responsible. And climate stuff matters a lot to me. There's clearly no 'carrot' for us as end users



  • Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭Punchin A Keyboard


    Well if they are installing 10k a week then soon and i mean 6 months +, they would have 60% coverage so the problem would be more manageable.

    I would hope true TOU plans like the UK would come.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭DC999



    Dumb Q, how can a smart meter tell the type of device using power by category? That would help most people for sure to see the 'buckets' of power they use. And how can it even tell if something is always on? I thought they could only show the usage during the time period, but not what type of device. Is there a 'signature' from certain types of devices?

    Anyone have one on their smart meter to see if it's close enough in what it reports compared to their own stats on usage of devices?

    Just did a quick Google and seems some were talking about that - content is a few years old (included a Boards thread).



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,459 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Are they installing 10K a week? I don't know if they are/aren't, but assuming that figure is correct and they work for 48 week a year installing. Let's call it 500,000 / year. So with 2.5 million meters to be replaced, that's roughly a 5 year project. Not sure how many they have done todate, but what they don't want is people going apeshit over getting "next in line" for a smart meter install esp with the Ukrainian energy crisis. Jesus it will be like Phil and Holly skipping the queue for a smart meter - LOL

    I'd be a HUGE fan of smart meters. Huge fan. I have zero doubts in my mind that they will help curb peak time usage by 4-5% once they are rolled out properly (probably in 2024 or so). It does hugely annoy me though that they haven't implemented the existing D/N tarrifs on a smart meter. Absolutely no reason why they couldn't (technically).

    I guess, people on D/N have already sort of moved their load to night time already, so they are less of a priority as they already have achieved some of what smart meters are designed for



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,484 ✭✭✭micks_address


    on the electric ireland website it says all appliances have 'fingerprints' so they can bucket them that way...


    Appliance Itemisation is powered by disaggregation...a process that takes the energy usage data from your meter and uses software algorithm to identify the individual appliances that are actually using the energy.

    How does it work? Magic?

    Not really! Each appliance uses electricity in a unique manner - think of it like an appliance fingerprint. We detect and extract these "fingerprints" and convert the data into useful insights and recommendations.



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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,881 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    They cant directly tell what is being used where.

    But you can do a best guess. of when things turn on and on "average" household use. and it only reports every 30 mins, so its gonna be a bit vague along with some "ai learning" etc

    Always on, its the base load.

    Cooking is bursty, as ovens cycle on and off,

    Entertainment, the increase on base load in the evening.

    laundry.. well i can barely see my washing machine on my graphs, so im assuming driers prob.

    Water heating, big continuous chunks of power use.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,069 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    I’ve just logged into my electric Ireland account. I can’t access that detailed info unless I sign up to a smart tariff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    I’m MCC16 and not through my own decision. When the house was built, the builders went with an Energia smart tariff. Had all sorts of trouble getting on to a 24 hour one when I bought the place. The meter reading is split into day/peak/night but all at the same rate for now.



  • Posts: 3,656 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Pat Kenny himself said he had a Smart Meter but wasn't on Smart Tariffs as they seems so much more expensive! One thing you cannot accuse Pat Kenny of is not doing his research.

    I am with Energia and have a Smart Meter but not on Smart Tariffs. Energia themselves advised me not to go on to Smart Tariffs! If the energy companies themselves are advising people not to go for smart tariffs is it any wonder only 4% have signed up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,484 ✭✭✭micks_address




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    My parents had a day/night meter back in the 90s. At that time it had the one spinning disk but two readings, one for day and the other for night. There was a separate mechanical timer attached to the meter to switch between day and night.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭Gooser14


    Looks like you should have had a Nightsaver (day/night) meter long before the smart meter was installed. I'm not sure whether you can opt for a day/night plan only with the smart meter. Might be worth checking with your current supplier.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    The biggest con of all.

    I remember when everybody was with esb and paid the same price, with day / night option.

    Now they have created all these companies, with layers of call centres, cash back, switcher offers, advertising etc., etc.

    Them politicians are out in the media telling us to shop around, wasting our time trying to save buttons.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,556 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    The same here. The other thing that galls me? Is that even though I have a smart meter installed, that I have no way of actually utilising or accessing the data it generates without actually switching to a smart plan in the 1st place.



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