How do bad tradespeople stay in business?

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119602711#Comment_119602711

Ah well, you see this is easily explained.

It's the foreign lads fault , cause Irish lads are either too expensive, won't turn up or wouldn't work in a fit.

Esho

Had a load of jobs to get done as i just moved into an old house.

Will use Eastern Europeans for preference over Irish - for price and finish, if i dont have a recommendation from someone.

All jobs were about a fifth cheaper and am really happy with the results.

Apart from one Irish guy who was just outstanding, sound, great price and excellent work - was recommended to me .

I'll never use a traveler again - the ones I used before wanted to cut corners and I had to listen to their bs while they tried it on.

Bricriu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119602649#Comment_119602649

Sorted? I think not!

When buying a potentially dangerous product like a rechargeable battery (yes, they can sometimes explode) one should be very careful that the battery not only fits the tool it will power but also that it conforms exactly with the charger.

Paddy the Irishman didn't bother with any of that. I didn't trust him.

The other dealer checked everything to ensure conformity and safety. I trusted him.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119603076#Comment_119603076

The biggest risk associated with rechargeable batteries drills is fire from being exposed to a high heat area. The rule of thumb is if you're not using the drill take the battery out.

As for batteries failing , it's cause of the owner not using the drill. People buy drills , use them once or twice a year ,the battery drains and won't hold a significant charge.

Explosion, unlikely, even when left on charge.

Ush1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119602592#Comment_119602592

He could be sitting on 900 billion and he would ask the same question.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119603076#Comment_119603076

Ah get over yourself. You gave the man the make and model of the drill and he had the battery for it. Likely a genuine one that would have come from factory.

The foreign guy had to do all the extra checks as he was likely selling you a spurious battery.

I really think you are misjudging this one.

Foreign guy was cheaper cause he probably sold you the spurious part.

Of course you will come back now to say it's a Bosch part you got.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119600470#Comment_119600470

Jaysus, you work in the public service or some quango by any chance?

Just DIY and save all the hassle.

Strumms

Just had a gardening redesign at home. Overall job is excellent, very stylish, tidy and vibrant looking…lads worked clean.

Two lads had to work late the last evening having been four there all week… when the job was finished they were short one paving brick… so lad disappears and comes back with the wrong brick… animated conversation between them… then the lad try’s to convince us it’s the same brick, then close enough, then finally agrees, it’s the wrong brick…. 😱😅

nobody would have given a fûck if they just said…. You know we’ll be back Monday, with the correct brick but with craic like that you become sort of hesitant to recommend them, no matter how perfect the job was…

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119603835#Comment_119603835

the job wasn’t perfect, They tried to lay a brick a different colour from the rest…

Birdnuts

When I glanced at this thread title I thought it read "How do bad transpeople stay in business"??😒

Ush1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119603835#Comment_119603835

They wouldn't get a recommendation because they were gas lighting the customer to finish up the job.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119603872#Comment_119603872

I have to be honest, that one brick would annoy the hell out of me too.

I use tradesmen.ie to find tradespeople for small jobs. You can read reviews and leave reviews on that site. So far, it's worked out for me.

Furze99

They do good jobs and bad jobs. Make a few bob on the bad jobs and get a bit of credit on the decent work.

I use a reliable gas company in Dublin, easy to contact, turn up as promised, all work well documented. They have a good network all over the city.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601606#Comment_119601606

That scope of bureaucracy and paperwork hoped for here wouldn't be possible if we even agree that its desirable (which I don't) without putting tradesmen out of business by eating up all their work-time

Not sure what paperwork you are referring to (just being pedantic, but it would be all digital, so no paperwork at all 😉). What additional time do you think a tradesman would need to spend on this (and how would it put them out of business?)

And why would customer knowing the reputation of tradesmen before they take on their services not be desireable?

Also there is no way that a government agency would produce a web site in which you could navigate that level of micro-management efficiently. It wouldn't happen.

Website design has nothing to do with public or private companies. It is down to good solution architecture and UX Design.

Another objection: You would be interfering with people's right to access small claims procedures, provided by the local District Court offices, by saying they now have to go through this national agency and accept the decision of a government agent instead.

Not only would this be vastly superior protection than the small claims court (in both preventing issues and efficiently/quickly resolving the few issues that do arise), but there is nothing to stop people trying the small claims court if they want (we know the overwhelming majority of people don't).

You can't blacklist 'bad' customers by collecting data on them and 'flagging' it as some sort of bad customer score. There's no way that would be allowed.

It is not a blacklist, simply a customer's history. A tradesman can decide to do what they want with it. There is absolutely a way that would be allowed. It happens all the time. Nobody is saying eBay or the many websites out there that work of reputation. Hell even boards itself does it!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119600587#Comment_119600587

As above, I'm not sure what paperwork you think this would involve. The customer is describing the job and the tradesman provides the quote (and subsequently uploads the receipts. I'm not sure what other admin is involved, and all this is something that a legitimate tradesman is doing anyway.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119603765#Comment_119603765

Some people are happy to install new taps, others are not. But very few are capable (or have the time) to install a whole new kitchen/bathroom etc. Nor would most people trust themselves (from a safety perspective, either to their person or to their property) to go messing with gas/electricity/plumbing etc.

But are you seriously suggesting we just get rid of all tradesmen and have everybody DIY?

Also, what hassle are you trying to "save"?

the_pen_turner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119604001#Comment_119604001

why would you upload receipts if its a quoted job. the non of their business.

of course there is more work. you have a whole layer of paperwprk extra to deal with along with extra tire kickers and time wasters that come with systems like this

Bad tradespeople stayed in business because so called "reputable" companies use them as subcontractors. Happened to me. I got legal advice after the job.stoll had to pay for botch job.

JL555

I just think it's really hard to find good tradesmen in general. The really good ones are in demand and you need to wait very long periods to get them to do a job. When the job is urgent, people often turn to to whoever they can get, and it may turn out to be a costly mistake. (I've done it so have learned the hard way)

I've had several trades in when doing a renovation. One or two were outstanding, the majority were mediocre to terrible.

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119603076#Comment_119603076

This is not difficult information to ascertain. Most chargers charge multiple variations of batteries of different manufacturers. They’re not going to manufacture different chargers for every single battery.

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119602813#Comment_119602813

What I do t get is reports of how hard working the Irish are when they are 'foreigners'

Eastern Europeans seem way ahead of them here at home.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119600470#Comment_119600470

Or we could just tell people to ask their friends and family for recommendations whenever they want a tradesperson.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119604773#Comment_119604773

What I'm puzzled about is about how we managed for years before all these foreigners arrived here.

I can't remember loads of buildings collapsing, electrical fires , gas explosions, cars falling apart through shoddy work because of poor Irish workmanship.

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119604926#Comment_119604926

Sorry, I am not saying they are not competent etc.

What I am getting at is the quality of finish (decorative) they think is OK. Others here have said they were poor workers, lazy, late arriving for etc.

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601940#Comment_119601940

I don't ask for cash quotes and if they're not willing to give a receipt I won't hire them. What leg would you have to stand on if there was no receipt? And your post seems to indicate that you're a proponent of cash sales, avoiding the exchequer and assisting in tax fraud?*

(*semi-serious here btw, playing devils advocate mainly)

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119604826#Comment_119604826

Doesn't work. As per my first post on the thread, this can work in small towns/villages. But not in large urban areas, especially Dublin. A lot of friends and family live in different areas. But, even when they do, it still doesn't guarantee anything. In my own case, I had a plumber once, who had been recommended to me who did a good job. Based on that, I recommended him to my sister when she was looking for one. Fortunately, she never went with him because about 6 months later I asked him to come out and fix a thermostat on my boiler. He subbed it to a crook, who not only claimed that it had caused the pump to break (working fine before he arrived), but subsequently charged me €600 for a negative head pump (on top of the thermostat, labour and callout charge), but installed a second-hand positive head one (less than €200 new).

Neither the original plumber (who I had the agreement with), nor the subcontractor wanted to know anything about it.

I eventually had to get another plumber in (also recommended to me) to install a positive head one (another €600 in parts + labour).

About 2 years later when that pump went, and I had to get a pump repair specialist in who confirmed to me that even that pump had been second-hand and about 15 years old. He also mentioned it is a very common practice with cowboy plumbers (his company fixes tonnes of pumps for plumbers - the plumbers tell the customers it's beyond repair and they need a new one; and then take the old one and get it repaired for a fraction of the cost and subsequently install it in the next unsuspecting customer).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119604019#Comment_119604019

As per above example. To show that all parts are new, cost what the tradesmen said they would and are of the quality/make/brand etc that was in the original quote/agreement.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058262808/how-do-bad-tradespeople-stay-in-business

The main reason that they stay in business is because they just move on to other unsuspecting customers. Fleece, rinse and repeat.

We had an extension built for disabled use by a building contractor approved by the council for grant work. It was an absolute nightmare which left a disabled person sleeping on the sofa. Builder didn't want to know and council didn't want to know. We were going to consider going legal but builder knew the person wouldn't see court.

Advised to contact building control who are part of the council. The onus is on the home owner to comply with building regulations which there were multiple breaches of. Building Control said that they were obliged to prosecute us so we said come ahead we'll have the kettle on. The following few days they got in touch to say it would be unpalatable to all concerned to prosecute. We said we didn't mind. They had found out that they had paid for the work. The grant was approved immediately again and we were put in a hotel for two months at the council's expense.

It was all brushed under the carpet like it never happened. We went public and the builder stated that they were absolutely satisfied all work was done to their usual high standard and in compliance with all regulations even though nothing complied with minimum building regulations. We put a review up online which was removed. I don't think Ireland will ever be able to regulate Construction because there is no law. There may be regulations but they appear to be mere guidelines.

the_pen_turner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605842#Comment_119605842

how does a receipt prove that the materials fitted are new or the quality specified. it just proves they bought similar materials lately.

whats wrong with older materials . in some cases its fine. i often buy screws, sealents etc in bulk to save costs and often have materials left over from jobs that are perfectly fine.

your system would mean that everything not used would be dumped because it would have to future value

the receipt only proves what the trademan paid for the materials not what the cost to the customer is.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605907#Comment_119605907

I don't think anybody is talking about screws/sealant here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605698#Comment_119605698

It's just that it looks as if the tradesperson black economy is thriving again. After years of written quotes, printed receipts and VAT numbers I've heard an increasing number of "cash" stories lately (and I've had one or two such quotes myself).

They'd be no use to me for exactly the reasons you say. If I've no written estimate and no receipt, my job's been done by a ghost, and ghosts give no guarantees.

Oddly enough, our own experience of tradespeople over the years has ranged from decent to excellent, and whatever else we've experienced we haven't had anyone we'd call a "cowboy". We've had a bit of bad luck with electricians, but more to do with personalities and stuff than with the quality of the work. And lately we've had a builder and a set of tradespeople we'd have no bother recommending - not cheap, but worth the money.

It's usually the cheap option that gets you, as far as I can tell.