Motor Tax

saabsaab

The budget is coming and car tax shpuld be re-examined. It's past time that our current car tax systems are abolished. The rise of electric cars and the current systems bias in favour of diesels is reason enough. Whatever loss would incur could be added to fossil fuels. I know that these have risen recently by over 50c per litre but some thought that 20c extra a year or 2 ago was undoable but it happened anyway. At least removal of car tax or a flat rate of 50 euro would see some benefit to car owners and the higher fuels costs will push the move away from fossil fuels.

PsychoPete

The only change that should be made to motor tax is make it cheaper

Jim_Hodge

You obviously don't drive an ICE. Bully for you!

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119596993#Comment_119596993

Maybe get rid of it?

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597000#Comment_119597000

Not a reasoned argument. So what?

bazz26

Oh look, the annaul silly thread before budget is back.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597080#Comment_119597080

Another unreasoned response. Try harder next time.

Tow

The current system was introduced by the Green Party when they were last in government. They somehow believed that diesel was good for the environment!!!

I believe in the user/polluter pays principal, so car tax should be moved to fuel, be it fossil or electric.

Allinall

Motor tax system is fine as it is.

Why try to fix something that isn’t broken?

tayto lover

I think they should put a huge tax on EV’s because their owners have huge egos, are knobs and obviously have too much money.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597107#Comment_119597107

Its a bad system. Or really several systems, far too complex involves too much processing and staff and doesn't work especially for those who pay it.

bazz26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597095#Comment_119597095

I don't need to try anything. Your the one trying very hard every year starting these very same threads.

I'ts like a broken record at this point, the same whing in the form of a new thread over and over again. People have enough hardship with energy bills and high inflation this winter without some busy body who obviously lives a sheltered and uneventful life, trying to force the cost of their ideologies on them. We already have an idiot like that as Minister for Transport.

Do you even own a car or do you even drive the one you have?

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597159#Comment_119597159

More unreasoned talk. Try to debate the issue(s) or is that too much?

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597148#Comment_119597148

It works for me, and I pay it.

Who are all these staff you talk about? I haven’t interacted with a staff member in the motor tax office for over 20 years. And that having bought new cars, imported cars and commercial vehicles over that time.

You must be doing something wrong.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597189#Comment_119597189

They are still staffed even if you don't use the office. All that paperwork sending out 'discs' etc. postage too. There is no real reason for it anymore.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597195#Comment_119597195

It’s all automated.

AnPost is government owned, so it’s cost neutral.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597216#Comment_119597216

Not really. Staff and paper etc all have costs.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597225#Comment_119597225

But not the postage?

Your gripe has changed significantly since your OP.

Methinks you haven’t really thought it through, despite having tried for years.

saabsaab

My point is the same it's not fit for pupose for many reasons. I'm sure that people can come up with more. I have thought it through perhaps those who say it should stay haven't?

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597072#Comment_119597072

You've no reasoned argument yourself. You just want to put the burden on other drivers. EVs carry a large environmental cost themselves and use infrastructure that costs money. The motor tax system is far from perfect but it does not involve a lot of staff nowadays at all. It's now a very slick automated system.

It appears only opinions meeting your own are considered reasoned though.

saabsaab

Reasons to abolish it

Complex

Outdated

Still involves staffing and other costs

Not needed as money raised can be raised by adding to fuels.

Untaxed cars won't be an issue.

Feel free to give reasons why it should stay other than you don't like change..

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597328#Comment_119597328

You're still excluding EVs to suit yourself. It's a Motor Tax, not a Carbon Tax. Fuels are already heavily taxed. Fine abolish it but you can't make up the shortfall by giving EV a free ride.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597341#Comment_119597341

I agree. No free ride for EVs, fossil fuel generated electricity should be taxed higher too.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597362#Comment_119597362

🤣🤣🤣

🤡🤡🤡

I'll leave you to work out the details and lobby for this stupendous change.

Good Luck. 🤪🤪🤪

harmless

Anyone who drives frequently will know our roads are underutilized. Motor tax should be lowered to encourage more cars. That money could then be recuperated from the increased tax from sale of fuel and electricity(EV cars)

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597820#Comment_119597820

Underutilised? In what way exactly? We've encouraged car dependency through poor planning and zoning. Out cities are congested to the point that causes public transport to suffer. Out kids aren't allowed make their own way to school because there is too much traffic. Pretty much all if our freight is transported by road rather than rail.

But our roads are under-utilised?

mikeecho

I've said it before.

A flat rate, depending on the vehicle.

Petrol car €x

Diesel car €y

Motorbike €z

Commercial €v

EV €f

.. just a flat rate. If it's a 1L or 5L.

But it'll never happen

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597362#Comment_119597362

Fossil fuel electric to be taxed more... Sounds like someone living at home with mommy and daddy who pay the bills.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597930#Comment_119597930

So true. Some would like it if we still used telegrams instead of internet.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597977#Comment_119597977

Ahh now you're on a different tack. No paper disk is a direction we should be able to go. Not taxing your EV is a different matter.

Buddy Bubs

I drive a lot - keep motor tax on the vehicle but lower it

I drive a little - scrap motor tax and put it on fuel

I can't believe that any suggestions here are anything less than self serving

I paid the big tax and fuel bills on 3 litre bmws pre 08, I then paid small tax and small fuel bills (until this year)on my Audi diesel now I will pay even lower tax on my EV that's coming.

I knew the motor tax and expected fuel costs on them all when I bought them, I can't then ask to change to suit me like a poster here suggests.

But if I had a choice I'd put zero motor tax on EVs and remove VAT on electricity.....to self serve like

Henry Ford III

Welcome to spam central where the same poster keeps posting the same old tired hackneyed shite time after time.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119598075#Comment_119598075

I think that is a bit simplistic. An overall system should be reasonable and simple overall i.e. the more you drive and consume the more you pay.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119598089#Comment_119598089

You seem bored? Best to move on then.

elperello

It's a thread about Motor Tax in the Motors Forum, seems fair to me.

There might be new subscribers with a different take on things or people who didn't discuss this before for any number of reasons.

IMO it's way past time they laid off the pre 08 cars.

(and no it's not an opinion driven by personal circumstance)

bazz26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597169#Comment_119597169

So talk is only reasonable and a debate when it's inline with your way of thinking?

I think you need to take some of your own advise then as your annual suggestions and figures read like something pulled from a certain part of the anatomy.

saabsaab

As usual some love to derail the thread. What I am saying makes sense and the older systems are overdue a change. What is the change you'd like to see?

ordinaryfella

A fine gael senator was talking about changing the system, so maybe not as futile as people think. I'd support a flat fee or perhaps a system similar to the Dutch to discourage heavy cars.

Consumption is already taxed on fuel, so it feels rather unfair to hand over a wad of cash every year. Pre 2008 is clearly broken too, punishes those with less money

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119599222#Comment_119599222

That is true but even post 08 system is out of date now and with more and more electric cars the tax take overall is falling making a revised system almost certain.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119598179#Comment_119598179

That's right but with the high rate of tax most of them won't have a chance to make it and will be scrapped prematurely.

A 2litre will pay €10,650 tax in the next 15 years, more if you can't pay annually.

An Ri rua

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597189#Comment_119597189

It doesnt work for me. I drive a pre 2008 as Im frugal. Its an immoral charge on frugal, thrifty and cashpoor people. Its plain wrong.

An Ri rua

This thread is a bag of b*llsh*t, from the 1st post.

Anyone with an ounce of decency knows that the polluter should pay. And that should be softened where, despite the best will in the world, car owners who cannot afford to, or its a poor decision to, change their car to electric, should not be punished for merely owning it ala standing charge /motor tax.

Virtue signalling should cost proper money too. The solution is to cut down our mileage and stupid lifestyles, not punish legacy frugal ICE owners. Less playdates and under 12 cross county games FFS. Responsible living and low charges for sh1t unless you USE it. That includes roads, not just fuel. Hence motor tax, and EVs should be salted with that.

saabsaab

Road tax is a charge wheather you use it a little or not!

endacl

More likely it’ll be added to fuel and increased on engines to cushion any emerging shortfall as more people switch over to electric.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119600603#Comment_119600603

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119599236#Comment_119599236

Well if the proposed policy change is to arrest the decline in motor tax revenue, its pretty simple just introduce a new minimum motor tax rate of say €300 pa and leave everything else as it is.

EV drivers still getting away with murder paying no or very limited Vrt, no fuel duty and being handed €5k by the hard pressed taxpayer everytime they want to sit their rear end into a shiny new €40 to €60k toy. The last thing we need at this stage is to be concerned about making it even cheaper to drive EVs

Seth Brundle

EV drivers still getting away with murder paying no or very limited Vrt, no fuel duty and being handed €5k by the hard pressed taxpayer everytime they want to sit their rear end into a shiny new €40 to €60k toy. The last thing we need at this stage is to be concerned about making it even cheaper to drive EVs

Does the grant not make used prices cheaper also therefore helping make them available to people who may not be able to (or want to) afford a new model?

Miscreant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601143#Comment_119601143

You would think that but at the moment, second hand EV prices are pretty close to new prices. They're almost depreciation proof!

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601182#Comment_119601182

Seems to me that the grant is almost being treated as something separate to the actual price of new EVs, a cash transfer to people buying new EVs rather than something that reduces the price of the car. IMO new EVs should be listed net of grant just as they are listed gross of Vrt.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119600572#Comment_119600572

No such thing as Road Tax (unless you consider Toll roads)

That circular disc on the windscreen is a tax on having a motor , ie.. motor tax . It's for use on the public road.

As for other posters telling us to all get EVs, surely it's more environmentally sound to continue using a vehicle that has already been manufactured.

The actual manufacturing of a vehicle, be it ice or ev is hugely polluting.

If it's already built, keep using it.

As for motor tax. There will never be any solution that will please everybody.

Motor tax, property tax, USC etc, are all just income for the government's Central fund.

If you don't pay it one way, You'll pay it another way.

TheRiverman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119600572#Comment_119600572

It's Motor Tax and whether.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119601689#Comment_119601689

No you can't please everyone but you can make it more streamlined and simpler.