Objective view on Vladimir Putin?

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119590815#Comment_119590815

Yes, but then he might not be the big boss in such governmental and democratic systems,,,and his foremost ambition and all his endeavors are centered on himself.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119593226#Comment_119593226

Yes....an awlful man,but I can have certain understanding as to why so many Russians respect him

His legacy, particularly in geo-politics terms in middle East,(Russia were in line to dominate for next 40 years there Vs America/eu) was exemplary,he backed Assad,the plausible secular leader there (if a butcher) and reasonable to believe secularism would spread forte,unlike west who armed moderate rebels,whom were promotely co-oped into much more "successful" Isis (exact same happened here as regards free state arming saor Eire,whom got subsumed into pira).......

that he/Russia choose to throw it away,to invade Ukraine,will be one of worst stragetic mistakes in last 250 years

A jumped-up little bollox.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119593262#Comment_119593262

He "Inherited" ( my description, Actually it was engineered and planned by Yeltsin ) a population which has been molded by generations of communism, a state which reduced the human to a Nr in a system, with that system controlling it's "Nrs" ruthlessly. So like ducks, which after hatching, will follow the first moving thing they see ( or so I'm told anyway) So Russians were pre-programmed to follow Putin. There simply was no one else. That he put some kind of order into the chaos that followed the demise of the USSR is indisputable. The fact that he engineered the whole system to give himself absolute control by fair or foul ( and mainly foul) means is also indisputable. And so we are where we are today. On the balance, there may have been even worse tyrants amongst the oligarchs', but we will never know now. And then when you think how he could have chosen a different path... law and order, reforms, democracy etc. what kind of Russia might we have today??? A economic rival in a real sense, the equal of any of the world's finest economies' ???

con___manx1

One guy who spoke out against putin last week mysteriously fell 6 floors from a hospital window.

Democracy at its finest.

The russian people are a bunch of sheep. They are afraid to say anything about putin.

I follow this young youtuber and he walks around russian towns asking questions about the special operation and so on and most are afraid to speak.

I do believe america and nato have prevoked putin and are not totally innocent.

Imagine a neighbour was taking bit by bit of your garden year by year.

The reason he took crimea is becsuse he new nato would put there ships there 100%. Its the only reason he took it.

Nato have army bases all along the russian border by the way.

This has been the case for many years.

They have been poking the dragon for way to long.

This conflict could easily escalate past ukraine in the future. I really wouldnt be surprised

AMKC

Yes he is a deranged very bad evil bastard that is stuck in the past. He has had 20 plus years in power gmto make Russia a great power and modern economy and instead what does he do starts a stupid war that he can not win and has set Russia back 30 years.

He could have be the greatest Russian leader ever and now instead he will go down as the one who ruined and failed Russia. I just hope he dies soon with a massive heart attack or something and that the Russian people then stand up against his cronnies and someone better takes over.

Probably a bit high-brow for Boards.ie, but what is the eventual outcome of a defeat for Russia? You'd have to imagine that China have their sight on the entire Russian Far-East.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119593402#Comment_119593402

They will only be defeated to their border by Ukraine and humbled.

Cant see China sticking the knife in.

cj maxx

I think he’s promised so much to his cabal he can’t be seen to back down

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119593402#Comment_119593402

China just owns people through money,it deosnt have tradional imperial ambitions on land,it (abit like Ireland),has a history of being colonised and suffering at hands of its neighbor

Why throw its weight at an invasion and see its economy wiped out,to take on a nuclear power,when it can partner with Russian regions in the east to provide reasonable levels of food (and water) security to its populace and ease it's dependence on the yanks as they are more likely to elect trump type characters than not into future imo.

it's a flaw,to view world through entirely western view,it's why the sanctions haven't worked on any country outside of the west and certainly havnt stopped this war

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119593334#Comment_119593334

There no doubt Russia has regressed on many areas under him.....but it is an economic powerhouse,compared to when he took over....I remember ruble collapsing several times in space of a year in late 90s

Noone is preprogrammed to do anything,and I've no doubt many in Russia dispise him,but most who do are entirely afraid to speak out,as well he tends to have high profile critics killed......

i would .think a bit like Catholic church here,an overbloated powergrip,with a massive undercurrent of resentment in population,but with enough people buying into/putting up with its sh1te (priests nun etc have relatives) to continue its pretense,

who on surface are popular,while in background are subject of ridicule....

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119593678#Comment_119593678

China just owns people through money,it deosnt have tradional imperial ambitions on land,it (abit like Ireland),has a history of being colonised and suffering at hands of its neighbor.

China is already an empire, a massive land one, going back nearly 2000 years. It literally had an emperor only a hundred years ago. As is Russia, the largest country on Earth. They're both extremely imperial in outlook and historical background.

Western European countries after bashing the feck out of each other for centuries while individual kings and that tried to build a local European empire, decided to create overseas empires for fun and profit(while still bashing into each other from time to time) as it made more sense on every level. So we Westerners tend to conflate "empire" with "overseas empire".

China was already a huge empire before overseas empires could even be found never mind built and Russia built her own overland empire by going east all the way to the Pacific planting White western European settlers and overlords as they went.

China sees Taiwan and previously Tibet as "theirs" because they were in the past. Russia sees the same of Ukraine(and Belarus and Georgia). "Ukraine isn't even a real country" is an idea held by many in Russia.

When I see people from places like India and some parts of Africa supporting Russia and putin in this mess going on about how he's facing down "White Western imperialism", I think seriously lads, read a book and get a clue. putin's Russia couldn't be any more White, Western and imperialistic, never mind wacky christian on top.

Run Forest Run

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119589005#Comment_119589005

So you're not counting Ukraine as a "line in the sand" then?

Even though the Russians (not just Putin btw) have been warning the west for three decades now about meddling with nations near their border... and now thousands of Ukrainians are dying in another depressing war, and their cities are in ruins.

I'm not justifying Russia's actions to be clear. But it seems you may be wrong about the lack of follow through on threats.

We should probably be glad that it takes them a long time to react. Further escalation by Russia from this point, is either a war that spills over into the rest of Europe - which very likely goes nuclear - and/or even tighter squeeze on energy resources.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119593125#Comment_119593125

So for any neutral countries in the world, they are expected to believe the narrative of the cold-eyed psycho looking guy who gets his opponents locked up or killed? Or the democratically elected leaders of a country like the US?

Sorry but I'm just not buying the idea that he is some genius mastermind. He will never win hearts and minds. He can only win through struggle, conquest and domination. Therefore I see him as a less than impressive figure.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119593285#Comment_119593285

I would pay 1000 euro to hear some chippy Dub say it to his face. It would be as satisfying as kicking Bishop Brennan up the hole.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119594076#Comment_119594076

A war that spills over into Europe ???...now that would be very short war indeed, and one which so far he has studiously avoided...he's no fool. If the west had reacted to his previous provocations full stop, then there would never have been an invasion of Ukraine. As for the meddling bit, do you consider ex -USSR country's who apply to join NATO ( ironically to protect themselves from Russia) as being western meddling? All this western meddling / NATO etc being pedaled by Putin propaganda to justify his invasion of Ukraine. If there was not a Western Meddling / NATO threat available to use as an excuse, for sure Putin would have found another one. He wants Ukraine as a first step to restoring the Old Imperial Russia, with himself as the Tsar of all the Russia's. Thats his aim.

EOQRTL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119594076#Comment_119594076

Whataboutary

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119594376#Comment_119594376

The persona he projects is mainly for the home audience......westerners and other's ( US, Chinese, Indians etc, ) are less impressed. But for the home audience, staged managed videos of a bare chested Putin riding a horse in the river, extolling his Judo expertise etc. is the Real Deal for Russians. Then the murderous forays into foreign lands ( Poisoning in England) "Protecting ethnic Russian's " in enclaves, Georgia Crimea, and latterly, Ukraine, all feed into the hard man image. He projects fear, as he was taught while in the KGB. The real Putin is something much less impressive, he is a murderous thug, whose biggest fear is that he will die in the same manner as all those whose death's he himself ordered. Novichok, Bullet to the head, fatal car, horse riding, or even judo accident. Take your pick, or even use your imagination to add to the list.

Run Forest Run

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119594440#Comment_119594440

It's frankly irrelevant whether or not I consider it western/NATO meddling.

Russia clearly saw it that way, and said as much for 3 decades. (and again, not just Putin) This conflict really wasn't the big surprise that western mouthpieces try to portray it as. Shocking yes, as all wars are, but not necessarily a big surprise.

The point I was responding to, was around whether Putin/Russia are following through on their threats. Well, yes it appears they are prepared to follow through, but perhaps not at the speed some might expect.

It's obviously dangerous hubris to write these things off as empty rhetoric from a fading world power.

Run Forest Run

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119594476#Comment_119594476

So the Russians didn't consider Ukraine a "line in the sand" then? Is that your position?

I'm not asking whether you agree with them. And I'm not suggesting I do either.

victor8600

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119594548#Comment_119594548

Nope, there was no chance to prevent the war in Ukraine. Putin's demands before the war amounted to Ukraine voluntarily surrendering to Russia, plus all Eastern European countries leaving NATO. It was not a real line in the sand, it was a pretext for the Russian audience back home -- "See, we told them to stay back, now they leave us with no choice but to attack".

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119594531#Comment_119594531

No more dangerous animal in the animal kingdom than one that is injured and cornered. You could say the same about present day Russia and Putin, and while it cannot be ignored , neither should it be a paralyzing factor. If Putin goes nuclear, Putin goes nuclear, and that will have to be dealt with if and when it happens. As I mentioned in another post, ( a few posts back) If Putin did not have the Nato / West meddling excuse, he would have found another one. His personal ambition is to restore the Russia of old, and having restored it, becoming the Tsar of all the Russia's, and going down in history as such. What the west / NATO did or didn't do is irrelevant.. ( except as a justification ) Putin's personal ambition is what is relevant.

Run Forest Run

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119594891#Comment_119594891

If you're referring the final list of demands shortly before invasion, I think many if not most informed observers consider that list to have been designed to be rejected. It wasn't a set of serious objectives.

I think the line was drawn long before those final moments however. I would agree there was very little chance to prevent the conflict at the point in time you are referring to.

But the seeds of this war go back much further than this point in time. And in fact, much further than Putin or Zelensky's leadership. (although Putin was in the background for much of the earlier stages)

That's why I don't really buy into this Putin obsession many people have. It's a personality cult. There are many Russians who share his world view, and in fact many who have even more hard line views than him. This conflict could easily have occurred under previous regimes, and could very easily be continued under future ones.

jmreire

Blaaz, I lived in Russia for several years, both under the Communists and again a few years later under Putin. As for the Communist times, there was no comparison like you made between the Catholic Church and the Communists. Catholic Church power and control over the population pales into insignificance compared to the power the local Communist Committee,,,it was absolute. It was one gigantic web of control. And the source of this control? The Big Red Book, where everything was an offence against the state, or could be manufactured into an offence. I well remember after a night out with colleagues, one of them came to me, and on bended knee begged me not to report him for being drunk, that's how intrusive it was. Go into your room in the hotel, and there was the ever present Babushka in the hallway ( and every hallway at that) noting everyone's coming and goings. Having a beer in a bar /restaurant, a man wearing a suit comes in, and the room goes quiet,,,,they know instinctively who he is, they are so used to the "System" He demands ID. and he is shown ID cards,, no questions or any sign of dissent. So you might not consider this " pre-programming" but if its not, then I do not know what is. The chairman of the local Committe was THE BOSS, and that was it. There's a scene in the movie Chernobyl where the Nuclear scientist attached to Chernobyl goes to the local part boss, requesting iodine for the children, and evacuation of Pripyat, and he just laughs at her,, even when she tells him of her qualifications as a scientist, and reminds him that in his former job, he worked in a shoe factory. He agrees, but tells her he is now the Boss, curtesy of the workers party. And his power there was absolute. No iodine fir the children, much less evacuation of Pripyat. Communism in action. But human nature being what it is, this translated into mafia like behaviour,,,you need a service which is free of course under communism, but a kind of bartering system developed,, a small present got you a priority in the queue or on the list, and by the time communism collapsed, and Putin arrived, this alternative system was ripe for development, and we have seen the fruits of this " entrepreneurialism". A massive mafia state.

I was in Grozny while it was still being bombed back into the stone age, and again later under Kadyrov. The reconstruction made it almost unrecognizable at that point. Throughout the major cities, big changes came too...gone were the massive GUM store's ( Governmental Universal Magazines) which had massive staff's ( unemployment being forbidden ) but very little in the line of good's for sale. They were replaced by modern western style supermarkets, with all that the West could offer. They allowed the west in to show them how it was done ( Air Lingus Duty free being a case in point) then when they had imparted their know how, they were unceremoniously kicked out, ( or at least until their expertise was again needed. ) So Yes, the cities thrived, but the vast rural areas, not so much. Ethnic Russians are not all that popular in the Republics.

And yes Putin brought order to the post USSR world, and prosperity too, but not to all. The wealth of Russia he managed ( and still does) is shared out to his oligarch friends ( and here I use the term Friends advisedly) and is mainly dependent on oil / gas sales. The Rural areas are a case in point...not much has "trickled down" to them. So yes, visit Moscow, St. Petersburg etc and you will see examples of the new ( and old ) glittering Russia, but thats not all of Russia, it's what is on display. Travel throughout the republics, and you will see a different Russia. One that still has its own charm, in its own way, but a far cry from the cities. Could Putin have done it differently? I'm sure he could, but this is the path he choose. For sure, its not the majority of Russians who are benefitting from the wealth of Russia.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588143#Comment_119588143

surely that is Ursula Von Leydens etc... fault , our indian friends have no such issues with their bills...

not really putins fault that

foxsake

I like how putin explains things in his media dealings - well to be precise how his translator does.

he gave very comprehensive explainers on russia's position on Iraq , Syria, western Fiat money system and social issues.

very view politicians (if any ) in Europe or USA do that type of thing. which I think is lacking.

His macho PR stuff was great in the day put him streets ahead in PR than other leaders.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119595429#Comment_119595429

Oh yeh wait ill just call punjab my best mate and ask him about his latest bord gais bill. Ffs.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119595613#Comment_119595613

a bizarre statement , considering how many indians are in ireland and also working with Irish people in so many sectors it wouldn't be any trouble to ask one.

But i was referring the indian minister on cnn - who said he was tasked with suppling india with gas/oil not worrying about other stuff. it was widely reported.I didn't mean to actually ring an indian - it's on youtube if you don't know any indians.

similar with other countries I just picked india cos of the minister.

Other places don't have europes strange fascination with destroying itself. weird tbh

dxhound2005

Russia has territory extending from the border with Norway to the border with North Korea. Why do they need more? Nobody from NATO has designs on any Russian Federation land.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119593339#Comment_119593339

Horseshit.