Can Sinn Fein fix the housing crisis or is it beyond them or anybody else?

Madeoface

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119503229#Comment_119503229

VAT is a fiduciary tax not an income stream. You claim your VAT inputs on the purchases you make as a business and pay over the surplus VAT on any profit made. If you don't make a profit in the period you usually get a VAT refund. VAT is passed on to the consumer/ end user.

Its basic business knowledge to exclude VAT from profit considerations. It does / can affect cash flow however. If that is what you mean?

Some of the supposed Marxists on here don't comprehend this cos running a business is not within their orbit of competence. If you reduce VAT, consumers might benefit (big maybe) but that also shoots a hole in government funds....to be filled by??? Less services, higher PRSI? Take yer pick.

VAT is the godfather of all taxes cos with its huge imposition on the price of fags n booze among other optional expenditure, ensures the recycling of government handouts for one thing. Its a red herring though , i think, to assume reducing VAT on building related costs or sales will do much for housing in the short to medium term. Longer term, possibly.

ILoveYourVibes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119503675#Comment_119503675

I agree with some of what you say.

Obviously you need to buy goods to sell. And VAT affects how much consumers buy of your product. Or how many consummers you have. Doing paperwork for VAT returns is itself costly for business.

If YOUR CUSTOMERS BENEFIT so do you. They can buy more. They can spend more.

The thing is we ARE ALL CUSTOMERS. VAT affects us all.

My example of a tax on kids shoes for example. Its why in the USA they show the VAT separate...so you know.

Even people on unemployment would benefit from lower VAT ..in fact you could argue during inflation they would benefit the most.

As for these govt services .we would lose...you mean the GREAT NHS we have?? When you DRILL DOWN on these public expenditures some would surprise you

https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/other/2022/

21 BILLION to 'OTHER' ....look at some of that.

ILoveYourVibes

I mean when you drill down on health things start to look REALLY weird

https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/health/2022/

Healthcare reform costs us 18 million. We have health admin costing us 60 million ..THEN we have corporate admin at 600 million. That is 700 million on admin....600 of which isn't public servants but corporate.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119503536#Comment_119503536

We build a lot of timber frame.

House has to last because a mortgage is 35 years.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497216#Comment_119497216

SF are Irelands ANC. Agitators that appear to be fighting for a worthy cause but when they actually get to power the only worthy cause will be enriching themselves and keeping themselves in power. They'll cause endless damage to the country whether you want to believe it or not.

They're popular because they're populist (the clue is in the name) and look how the worked out with Trump, Johnson, Bolsanaro and the rest. Left their countries is fine order.

maccored

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119503675#Comment_119503675

are you getting your sinn feins mixed up with you labour /workers party of the 70s when you talk of marxists? I do believe you are. Grab one of those history books and give them a read.

Ham_Sandwich

Sinn Fein will get us out of the mess caused by finna fail and finna gael theyll tax the bankers and developers and well be looked after if we sort them out at the election houses schools hospitals bins well be sorted out you know youserselfs

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119496412#Comment_119496412

I think this post is a mischaracterisation of what young people actually want. The problem is not overzealous expectations -- the problem is that young people (at least from my own experience as a 31 year old professional in a large office where most people are in the 23-45 age range) want exactly what you say they should want. Most of them are happy to rent apartments if they are of reasonable price and availability - and they seem accepting to me of the realities of what urban living entails (i.e. you aren't going to have the big rural-style house with garden and garage that you grew up in out in the sticks). The problem is that these things do not exist with anything even stratospherically close to the frequency they should have been existing long before now.

You talk about the unwillingness to make sacrifices here as if a whole generation of young people did not have to forego two of their most formative, free and fun years during the Covid crisis. It seems almost crass to me that, no sooner than 2022, with the double whammy of Covid recovery and a European conflict unleashing huge societal, economic and political turmoil, that we are back to the old falsehoods of 'young people just don't want to work the way I did'.

The idea that the housing crisis is in any way a question of young people's attitudes or lack of willingness to work, save or strive for a home is lacking in solidity. The problems are, and have always been, problems of policy -- a country that has done much to radicalise its economic offering as Ireland Inc but has done very little to address the inevitable urbanisation that comes with that. Planning objections, NIMBYism, an unwillingness to think radically about a serious problem which has been brewing for years, political sensitivities about ruffling the feathers of the landowning class -- all these things and more are serious contributors long before you get to the contribution of young people who you seem to characterise as wanting boob jobs and D4 mansions with undeserved senses of entitlement.

Young people are well within their rights to feel that Older Ireland has pulled the ladder up, while the political class is shuffling around talking about how bad the problem is - and not much else than talking.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510054#Comment_119510054

Wanting things to be cheaper is not particular to young people, expecting them, or thinking that it is owed to them, does seem to be though. The young people in your office have jobs and pay that “older people who pulled up the ladder” may not have had at their age. The people competing against you for homes are unlikely to be 60 yr olds, they are more likely to be your generation.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510054#Comment_119510054

Why are these people in your office not banging the doors down of all TD's asking them why the f**k are they rejecting properties? telling every TD in government and in opposition if they block a single house they will lose your vote. Instead when you look at this forum you have people cheering on the opposition for blocking house, for making the housing crisis worse. That is incredible and if I was 20-30 and struggling to get a house/apartment, I know who I would be going after.

Every single person should be emailing their TD monthly(all information on web) telling them if they hear about a housing block they will lose votes.

Make sure the TD's are fully aware. That's the advice I would give you and everyone else in your office

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510185#Comment_119510185

A housing crisis is not a charter for bad and inappropriate planning or the ignoring of regulations etc. That only causes problems down the road as we have seen.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510204#Comment_119510204

Political parties, as we all know, are not blocking for bad planning.

As we all know Sinn Fein took over DCC, at the end of their term not only did they build very few social houses, they actually sold more and ended up with less houses in 2019 than DCC had in 2014.

That is shocking with a huge growth happening in Dublin during this period.

With the constant blocking of houses across Ireland and especially in the Dublin region, with nothing to do with bad planning. Maybe Sinn Fein and supporters can explain why? because to me it looks very much like a plan to making the housing crisis worse at every opportunity.

The constant posting by a few people gloating about how bad the homeless numbers are in ireland is awful as well.

Wanderer78

'financialisation, a catastrophic failure'! it ll take years to get a handle on it, people would want to seriously reduce their expectations in sf sorting it to.....

Brucie Bonus

The problem gets worse year on year. So it stands that the younger crew will be the most disenchanted with the whole thing.

We went from slums to council housing that we built to leasing from investment companies. Thats why we've more homeless children than we had in the slum days of the 1930's.

Now we're allowing private investors drive up pricing. The state is the customer for some of these and paying what's asked, this is causing pricing to stay high as the market is rigged.

People are growing up knowing they are screwed for an affordable rent and buying is a fantasy. We need to stop relying on private investment funds and bar government politicians like Troy from engaging in the property market. Its a conflict of interest IMO. We should be blocking REIT build to rents and have the same firms build for us

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510093#Comment_119510093

But what is this based on though? It seems more like perception to me to say that young people feel that it is "owed" to them that things be cheap. Ireland has been an expensive country for quite some time and has been doing better than ever at retaining and attracting young people. They have the qualifications and talent to feck off to London, the US, Australia, the Middle East etc., So the idea that they "expect" Ireland to be cheap is a non-runner of an argument. Expecting to be able to find an affordable home is not the same as expecting things cheap.

The "young people are just entitled" argument seems a particularly odd conclusion to draw when you look at the market right now in Dublin (and beyond) -- tiny apartments being rented out at €2,000+ monthly and that's if you can even get a response for a viewing. I just cannot get my head around how anyone looks at that situation and somehow forms the narrative that it's actually the attitude of young people which is the problem.

You talk about young people having "jobs and pay" that older people wouldn't have had. Well, they are also dealing with enormously higher costs to find a home that those jobs and pay aren't making a dent in.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510260#Comment_119510260

You post this every day. We answer, you ask again the next day. Much of what you complain about is describing your own actions.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510886#Comment_119510886

Yet to see an answer

It is worth posting hourly to be honest. This is a party claiming to fix housing and when they had a chance running the biggest Council they ended up with less houses than they started with.....

3, 2, 1 its XYZ fault

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510260#Comment_119510260

You have been fact checked on this again and again.

The majority of blocking is on the basis of bad planning or sweetheart deals with developers etc.

There will be no return to Galway Tent/lax regulations days, crisis or not. The results of that has cost us too much.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511004#Comment_119511004

Ahh an event from 15 years ago is so relevant, one the ropes either fire out "Galway tent" or the "Black & tan" event

Galway tent was so grubby, standing in a field beside a horse track, who in their right mind would be at that. It's 2022, now we fly business class to Australia to wine & dine. Nobody stands in a field anymore

Let stick to the topic. The fact SF put all social housing in Dublin into minus figures during a huge population growth.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511023#Comment_119511023

I think you should listen back to News At One, the Galway Tent ethos never really left, it just went underground and FG and FF seem determined to circle the wagons to defend it.

If you continue to think this government even want to fix the problems much less have the ability to do it, then you are deluded.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511060#Comment_119511060

Troy thread 👉️

The current discussion on this thread is about Sinn fein managing to end up with less houses than they started with when running DCC.

skinny90

the solution here isnt a difficult one.

It needs government backing and more control of the market

As it stands in the market people are getting outbid by not just their peers who can afford more but by property investors, property mgmt companies and councils.

The days of council build estates or state owned estates are beyond us however taken a developer lead approach we can still get great control over the market.

If the government was to create greater incentives for developers to build affordable housing but in a more controlled manner I think it would stabilize the market completely.

However the market needs to be controlled and separated in such a way that we are not all in the same pot per say.

This is the huge issue I have with schemes like help to buy, its a scheme that on principal helps a lot but as a result it has driven prices of new build upwards too.

Along whats currently going on, if we were to reclassify a special grade of estate say its called "affordable houses" where

a) developers would get greater tax relief, greater buying power and or relief for materials, long term contracts/jobs for building affordable housing, creating more jobs as a result etc

b) they are open to just a defined cohort of folks who can buy aswell as state bodies/councils

The idea of this being an investment opportunity for someone must be ruled out by form of tax

d) huge disincentives to sell an "affordable house", ie significant taxes increases irrespective of the private market(forexample if you bought a house for say 150K the exempt higher tax sale price would be 150K or less. If you decided to sell for more you get hit with a crazy outragous tax that doesnt make it worthwhile.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511157#Comment_119511157

The numbers say the majority of houses in Ireland are been bought by home owners and not investment firms. But we also need investment firms buying because we need rental properties and reduction in rents

The plan of building huge estates of social houses/affordable houses etc has been stopped for obvious reasons. The method is now to build estates with a mix and hope that will stop social issues long term.

If you look at housing the big thing is the cost to build, you need to reduce the cost to build. Developers spending years in court with legal fees while getting blocked by political parties drives up the cost of houses for everyone. The developer is just passing this cost onto the home owner. So streamlining the planning process to stop these pointless rejections will help reduce costs.

I think we should all have an open discussion on housing. But one of the main issues I see is before a brick even gets laid we have millions spent in legal fee which has to be stopped. I go back to the apartment in Dundrum and a resident is blocking the entire thing because they think in the morning it might cast a shadow on their house. Crazy stuff

In regards to end point, you can't massively tax someone because they have to move. Someone buys a home and then 5 years later has to leave because of work. They want to buy a house and you want to tax them out of it to sell it? No chance that would be acceptable.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511002#Comment_119511002

It's false and tbh, spamming the same tale about DCC a few years ago in response to a decade old housing crisis were we've broke records in every area, nationally, is kinda desperate.

Maybe don't bother the pretending to ask questions when all you want to do is spam propaganda.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511201#Comment_119511201

It's the truth and because it shows Sinn fein in a negative you are calling it "spamming"

Sinn Fein supporters constantly tell everyone that we can't judge Sinn Fein on the terrible performance in the North. Now we are supposed to ignore their terrible performance in local government as well?

It seems you don't have the same issue when you and others spam every thread with "Galway races" and the "Black & Tan" event.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511201#Comment_119511201

It's always somebody else's fault.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119510093#Comment_119510093

....and many older generations who are in fact property owners, hardly object to building, and hardly advocate for polices that make sure that whatever needs to be done to maintain protections of their assets, in particular their value, and keep voting for parties that do such!

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511260#Comment_119511260

I always find it interesting when you see these people who are rejecting everything in the area trying to say it will hurt the value of their property. Anytime apartments are mentioned you hear something about Ballymun. Totally ridiculous carry on.

The same people a few weeks later are complaining because wee Jonny can't buy a house down the road to them and its a disgrace.

This sort of ridiculous rejections should be stopped. It is costing millions and majority have nothing to do with quality of the house been built etc.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511229#Comment_119511229

No, I call it spamming because you post it everyday and said it should be posted every hour.

You are misrepresenting DCC council, a number of years ago, as a deflection for over a decade of a national housing disaster. Its desperate. And you refuse to acknowledge its not improving under FF/FG who control DCC.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511291#Comment_119511291

Why don't you knock on the doors of your FF, FG and Green politicians and tell them to stop the frivolous complaining?

Leo Varadkar’s objection — sent in June of this year — was to the development of a former pub in Dublin 15, where plans were submitted for 41 apartments. In a letter to Fingal County Council, he said: “I am certain it will impact on the residential amenity and property values of neighbouring homes.”

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/taoiseach-leo-varadkar-defends-objections-to-constituency-development-claiming-area-has-been-blighted-36155759.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/ff-td-among-over-350-to-object-to-52m-clontarf-scheme-1.4714368?mode=amp

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511328#Comment_119511328

The numbers are available here:(see below)

Programmes 2018 2019 2020 2021 Total

New Build – DCC 271 302 455 1,860 2,888

New Build - AHB’s 403 343 284 609 1,639

Once Sinn fein was taken out of DCC the numbers went up. Massively went up!!!! even with Covid

But as I said the most damning part of Sinn Fein running DCC is they managed to end up with 1300 less houses in 2019 than they started with in 2014

How many people would be off the street if Sinn Fein even managed to keep the same number of houses they had in 2014. 1300 homes with minimum 2 people per home is 2600 people off the homeless list.

Terrible that people are on the street because of Sinn Fein and to make matters worse, Sinn Fein keep blocking the projects that could replenish these houses

https://councilmeetings.dublincity.ie/documents/s30715/4i%20Report%20On%20Housing%20Supply.pdf

https://dublininquirer.com/2019/03/20/council-owns-1-300-fewer-social-homes-than-four-years-ago

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511445#Comment_119511445

If you read my comments I said to contact all TD's.

👌

I want the homeless crisis resolved. I have been crystal clear on that

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511468#Comment_119511468

I want the homeless crisis resolved. I have been crystal clear on that

Don't vote for any of the government parties that have presided over record breaking homelessness for over a decade so.

Just to clarify one thing...........

DCC or any other local authority don't have any money to build houses, they get government grants to buy or build. The reason no houses were built by DCC is not the fault of the councillors, be they SF or FF or what ever, it's because central governement didn't make the money available to the council.

DCC did investigate borrowing money to build several years ago, but this idea was shot down by the government.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511500#Comment_119511500

I think you answered that best yourself

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511231#Comment_119511231

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511570#Comment_119511570

So you are saying the government are not the primary fault of the mess housing is in?

Cool story bro.

If SF or any other party make the same mess in government then we can blame them.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511455#Comment_119511455

Horse leavings.

Its complete nonsense that SF could or were responsible for housing because they'd more seats than any other party, but less than FF and FG combined while the housing and local authority minister was FG too. And currently FF have the most seats, are in government and things are worse.

No need to relish the idea of more homeless. Not nice.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511598#Comment_119511598

Only if you want it to be their fault. Surely at this stage you understand that there are a multitude of reasons for our shortage of houses, many outside of the control of any government.

But carry on.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511468#Comment_119511468

I dunno, you seem obsessed about DCC for a four year period. What about the rest of Dublin, the country for the last decade and currently?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511622#Comment_119511622

So are you washing their hands of responsibility too.

Tell me this Dav and BA, what buck stops with this government? Are they responsible for anything?

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511455#Comment_119511455

Ah jays BA. Your link here cites a shinner complaining the city depends too much on private builds and the article cites the demolition of old estates and tenant purchase resulting in there being less stock. So your ham acting in gloating over any rise in homelessness is off target and your claim SF is responsible, despite FF/FG having more seats and FG in government, is truly and embarrassingly debunked. Safe home now.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511625#Comment_119511625

Five years in DCC.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511713#Comment_119511713

The link confirms DCC was let with 1300 less units in 2019 than in 2014.

Incorrect on "debunked".

You are trying to blame a government that was even formed for a couple of years during the period so try again on that one.

Plus if you knew anything about politics, at a local level FF and FG worked as totally different parties as always. You would have been better trying to throw labour under the bus as well when I gave you that option but you didn't even realise it was a FG/Labour government from 2014-2016

In the Northern everything is supposed to be DUP fault, in Ireland it is FF and FG. Recurring theme here with Sinn Fein. Always someone else's fault.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511612#Comment_119511612

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511713#Comment_119511713

Not sure why you responded twice to the same post??

Maybe the issues with boards.

Also in regards to the accusation about homeless number. 🤷

Just because I rightly called people out on gloating on homeless number this is the best response?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511761#Comment_119511761

Who dafuq said ‘everything is the DUPs fault’?

Come on, back something up ffs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511637#Comment_119511637

They played a part, no doubt, but it is simplistic to say they are responsible for, or to blame for it.

It’s almost like you don’t understand that there were other factors involved, and that a change of government, whomever they are, will not magically make houses appear, at the price you want to buy/rent. I appreciate that it suits your narrative to blame all on the government parties, but you have to at least consider the other causes.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511843#Comment_119511843

You have no idea what I want.

So what is it you think the government(any government ) is responsible for when it come to housing?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119512078#Comment_119512078

You have a point.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511761#Comment_119511761

So a government only in a few years are held to a lower standard than a DCC in a few years, were FF/FG combined had more seats but you claim SF were in charge. Also the other day you said the council was powerless. At least you conceded the less housing was absolutely due to demolishing and sales to tenants. Not sure why you pretended it had anything to do with SF.

In the North now with more made up claims. Ironically, currently it is the DUP.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119511780#Comment_119511780

I read your link that made you look foolish and responded to that.

It's awful how you are delighting in high homeless numbers.

You refuse to acknowledge FF and FG run DCC and its worse :) 😃

Not a great day for you.

batman75

It's hard to make a call on SF because they have no form by virtue of never having been in Government. That being said since the state pretty much abandoned building houses for its people then it's been a failure ever since. Plus there is so much money to be made from the housing crisis that a narrowing of demand vis a vis supply is not in the interest of those with money or who seek to accumulate more.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119512609#Comment_119512609

Its clear FF/FG are okay with the crisis getting worse once there's money to be made privately.

All any new government need do is move away from FF/FG policies and towards building social and affordable.