Can Sinn Fein fix the housing crisis or is it beyond them or anybody else?

skimpydoo

We have a serious housing problem that is over 10 years old and FG and their current BFF's FF have not being able to put a dent in it and fix it. Can Sinn Fein fix it? Or is it too foooked to be dealt with?

I hope Sinn Fein can do something but I fear maybe all that can be done is damage limitation. Am I right?

xxxxxxl

I would not hold my breath on that one. It seems baked into the system not to want to be fixed. Simple stuff like building up is never discussed or legislated for. I'm not talking flats like ballymun. Proper livable places like they have in the USA. Rich tend to move to them in the city freeing up areas for people to buy and live cheaper outside the centre. ABP probably has not helped due to the stuffing of vested interests. Then we have ministers and a good few others abusing the system for their own gain. I would never vote SF. But I would suggest if they brought in rules in relation to tax breaks for developers 40-60% builds. 40 being social housing or run by places like Cluid. Before you get any Tax break.

Dohnjoe

It's complex to "fix" and not something that can be done in just a few years. But you can absolutely count on populists like Sinn Fein to produce some lengthy manifesto that will promise to fix everything in the country, do everything under the sun and turn Ireland into an affordable housing paradise.

Augme

They'll do a far better job than Fine Gael, that's for sure. They have solely been interesting in ensuring housing is used a means for profiteering for a very small percentage of people in society.

greensausage

How exactly will they do this? Genuine question.

ahusband

Simple answer is no.

The issues can only be resolved with increased building along with a massive shift in expectation and elimination of a sense of entitlement.

People in general need to realise that they can not expect to live where they want to live, or to be automatically be entitled to live where they grew up, or where their family is from or happens to live. Not everybody can have a front and back garden, or even one or the other. Not everyone can live in a detached house, nor semi detached or even terraced.

Every other country in the world seems to manage just fine with people living in a mix of apartments and various other houses as they can afford, along with people living where they can afford to at what ever stage they are, even if its not where they would like.

We need more apartments & a willingness for people to accept maybe not living exactly where they would like, or in the house they would like, or going on the holidays they would like to go on.

I know people who expect to be able to go on multiple holidays every year, wear designer clothes, have cosmetic surgery, yet complain they can not afford to buy a house on one income?

They look at us and say that we are grand because we bought before 07/08.

We did yes, but we have been abroad three times in 17 years (two of those before the crash) we didn't have a tv for the first few until we were given a secondhand one.

My point is that I do not think people are willing to make the sacrifices that it takes to afford to buy or pay for a home these days.

Build more apartments and get people to adjust their expectations a bit

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058259551/can-sinn-fein-fix-the-housing-crisis-or-is-it-beyond-them-or-anybody-else

SF have lots to say but do very little

It shouldn't be allowed for large companies to be able to buy a rake of properties for future profit

Every prospective development must either be privately sold or allocated to social housing - it's ridiculous that some company can come along and buy up all the properties and then demand whatever rent they like

Ireland is fast becoming like America with the property market - houses should be built for people not for speculative profit

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119496310#Comment_119496310

Lengthy manifestos?

isnt that what FFG have been doing for over a decade now in relation to housing AND health?

lawrencesummers

There is a problem if we return to large scale government build accommodation and its something not much talked about.

The policy around social housing being integrated with new housing development has reduced the size, scale and level of poorer areas in many places.

If the gov builds loads of social housing together its essentially building another ghetto for the want of another word.

What the current policy has done is essentially spread out the poor people in middle income areas and in the long term its better for society, that said it has down sides.

So i would be weary of a party policy advocating large scale social housing as a solution to the housing crisis because it can create another issue.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058259551/can-sinn-fein-fix-the-housing-crisis-or-is-it-beyond-them-or-anybody-else

There have been housing crisis in Ireland since the 60s and even beyond that and I can say with absolute certainty that SF nor any other party for that matter can fix the problem. It’s not that there is a lack of possible solutions to the problem, it’s that Irish voters are unwilling to accept such solutions.

So long as the Irish voter demands that the solution to the problem must be that everyone gets to own a house in their preferred location it can’t be solved. This approach even ignores the basic problem that land is finite!

Here in Switzerland we don’t have a national housing crisis because aspiring to owning a house is not a thing! Having good affordable accommodation is. The rule of thumb is that you should not spend more than 20% of your income on your accommodation and the demands are for a strong legal framework for landlords and tenants plus a large stock of available rental accommodation. There are localized housing issues in some cities, but not at the national level.

To ensure a large stock of housing, Swiss pension funds are required to pay pensions rather than convert them to annuities and to do so they need the reliability of rental income. So the potential house buyer is up against a well financed pension fund when it comes to the bidding. The result is that about 60% in the cities are unlikely to own their own home, or aspire to doing so. It is just not a realistic possibility. Other European countries have solutions also based on a strong rental market.

Do you think the voters in Dublin, Cork, Limerick or Galway would accept a solution that would result in a situation where many would be unlikely to ever own a house? I think the pain is going to have to get a lot worse before people are ready to look at realistic solutions and even then as in the rest of Europe, it won’t be a complete solution.

Dempo1

It's a perplexing mess whatever about the politics. SF often accused of saying much & doing nothing but some seem to forget they have not been the decision makers that have caused this shambles, over a decade in the making albeit I think it goes back much further.

We of course had the celtic tiger, the brutal crash and in reality a very slow recovery. It would seem to me the wrong types of developments have been proactively encouraged by FFG & no one can honestly deny a Rental model was being pushed.

We constantly hear about commencements & completions & yet an astonishing lack of availability to either purchase or Rent. Constant political nonsense about who's objecting etc.

At a very basic level (I'm no expert), we know there's not enough actual Housing, We know there is not enough accommodation, We know there's fewer than 800 Homes in the entire country available to rent & at current levels of commencents it would seem it will take 20 years to catch up with just a basic need for accommodation wether it be rental or for purchase.

There's now a quadruple whammy, Increased costs, Supply Chain issues, Staff shortages, Interest rate rises & serious uncertainty. I personally know of a number of projects we're contractors have stopped completely, stuck in fix priced contracts, knowing if they continue they'll be bankrupted , less painful to walk away now or stop than loose money. I see half finished one off developments dotted around the Midlands and no amount of FFG spin persuades me their plan, subsidises to large developers, tax incentives are or will work & besides it seems to me, all that's being built is investment developments for rental which ultimately no one but cuckoo funds will own, whilst Government will essentially rent or subsidise indefinitely through HAP or local authorities leasing for years on end, it's absolutely bonkers.

Home ownership will in essence be a dream for very, very few. The Irony of course being that before FF & FG merged they blamed each other, now they are FFG, they play nice but constantly throw subtle digs about years of lack of supply & poor policy, both are responsible for.

Here's another thought, few are thinking about, the Mica situation, I don't know the actual number likely needing full re build but let's be Conservative at 5K, who exactly is going to rebuild these properties, this on top of the defects in apartments, at the current rate it could a decade for some properties to be rebuilt & I'd wager the final bill will be far more than estimated, this problem on top of an already chronic housing crisis, I'm also intrigued as to were these people will live during re build or repair.

So, In reality whomever takes over this absolute mess has to unravel decades of ineptitude and bad policy. It won't be a quick fix by any means and regardless of folks political beliefs some serious root & branch overhaul in approach and some unpalatable decisions will be needed, we can no longer deny there's a serious and growing problem beginning with a basic accomodation need, let alone developments for purchase by aspiring home ownership. SF can do no worse than FFG but it not going to be easy or quick.

I'll leave this with a quick story shared on Twitter yesterday that got enormous reaction a painfully true story on the Day the remarkable Brother Kevin retires from the Capuchin Centre.

It's the story of a well known person meeting a 79 year old lady on a street in Dublin, a lovely lady well known in the area, always joyful, happy. Asked how she was, the lady said I'm fine, but I am just a little worried about it raining as she had to be out of her homeless, hostel accommodation during the day.

This is Ireland Folks in 2022 😞

brokenangel

With big fanfare Sinn Fein won a majority in DCC in 2014. They had articles on website etc as they had been elected into DCC to build houses and they would build houses. They had a significant majority over all the other parties. So what happened? well f**k all. The housing numbers in DCC didn't improve and the rental debt went through the roof with only 1 tenant getting evicted during the period. Absolute shambles. What Sinn fein are good at is deleting the embarrassing web links and then trying to convince everyone that it never happened.

Of course we get told you cannot consider that for XYZ, same as we are not supposed to take anything in the North into consideration. It would seem every time Sinn Fein make a mess the supporters tell everyone that it's not fair to say that's a shambles.

It is clear Sinn fein, even after the government asked in this crisis, have no intention to help the people of Ireland. They are actively trying to make the housing crisis worse on a daily basis. The worse the crisis gets, the better it is for Sinn Fein so until the next election they will block/slow down etc everything they can to put more and more people out on the street.

The people on this thread are aware of that and actually support Sinn Fein for doing that, supporting a party to make people homeless????? baffling

So how anyone can then post constantly about Sinn Fein fixing the problem? what exactly in the last 20 years would suggest Sinn Fein have the slightest idea how to fix the crisis? they know how to make it worse and are experts at that, but fix it???

Eoin O'Broin is a great mad when in the Dail shouting comments over at the government, doesn't have too many answers when the light is shined onto him.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119496317#Comment_119496317

Home ownership is at 70%

How is that a "very small percentage of people in society"?

The majority of new houses built are been bought by people to live in, not by rental companies etc that some people would have you believe.

Yes we have a housing crisis and we need more houses but trying to say home ownership is a very small percentage in Ireland is totally incorrect

How would they fix it?

The only thing that can sort the housing crisis is county councils start building again imo

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119496317#Comment_119496317

They will in their hoop. They'll end up spending a fortune propping up the end of society who only absorb money and contribute nothing thereby cementing and expanding their base whilst the rest of us mugs pay for it. SF have promised everything bar delivering nuclear fusion and half the country as usual is lapping it up. FG and FF haven't been great by any stretch but god help us when this shower of spoofers get into power.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119496605#Comment_119496605

100%

Nail on head

2011

This is a complex problem that is best solved by making unpopular decisions, therefore a populist party like Sinn Fein has less chance of solving it than anyone else.

The Sinn Fein promise many things including:

• Fixing the housing crisis
• Increase walefare payments and state pension
• Reduce retirement age
• Abolish property tax
• Reduce the cost of childcare while increasing the wages of childcare workers
• Sort out the HSE
• Crack down on crime
• No college fees
• Reduce income tax on all who earn under €100,000 by up to €700 a year (I love this one)
• Achieve the above without browwing, in fact they will have a budget surplus

For what I can see the Sinn Fein plan is that all of the above and so much mroe will be paid by:

• Increasing corperation tax. Not a smart move IMHO as this is what keep tech companies, pharma companies etc. in Ireland keeping Ireland afloat with so many high paying jobs as well as a lot of indirect employment
• Tax the rich would will simply stick around and pay for everyhting
• Magic

So no, I don't think Sinn Fein can solve the property crisis, but I think they will have a chance to try pretty soon.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119496644#Comment_119496644

Sinn Fein have gone around telling all big companies/rich that if they support them into government they won't hit them.

So the "tax the rich" is bullsh*t". What they want to do is tax anyone at 140k, wait no sorry it was 100k wasn't it? and tax them out of existence. When that doesn't pay for it then expect them to drop that to 80k, then 60k, then 40k, so we will just end up with a higher tax rate for everyone in Ireland.

"Abolish the property tax" is just another example of Sinn Fein providing a tax break to the rich. LPT is the one tax that no matter what you do, funnel money out of Ireland etc, you have to pay and it benefits everyone in the community. By removing it you are giving the people in their multi million euro houses a huge tax break. Yet their supporters seem to be oblivious to this, really baffling

Corporate tax has been increased. Plus any of the loop holes around many years had already been closed before the enforced increase. If SF and supporters think they should change our corporate tax rate.....well I am sure I would get a warning if I finish that

Sinn Fein are at this stage just a joke party, they can't even get a coherent message inside the party between the Republic and Northern Ireland. They just tell everyone what they want to hear even when it totally conflicts with itself. Just look at the plan for HSE to hire more doctors, while at the same time Pearse is telling everyone that he is going to tax the crap out of those doctors???? incoherent rubbish. And people expect this party to fix the housing crisis????? 😂

Hilarious

2011

Maybe, just maybe, the best chance of solving this is my making tough decisions.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119496646#Comment_119496646

Sorry but it is true, a lot of people sit back now and expect a "forever home" to be handed to them for free and if they don't get it then it is everyone else's fault.

The way people go on you would expect nobody in Ireland has bought a house in the last 5 years, that anyone in their 20's hasn't been able to buy a house. Well that is not true. Houses are bought and sold everyday of the week to people of all ages.

Yes we need more houses and yes the housing price needs to come down but that doesn't change the fact that houses are been built and based on recent reports the majority of these houses are been bought by people to live in.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119496412#Comment_119496412

Brilliant post. Well said.

Del2005

It's going to be extremely difficult to rebuild a country when your policy is to tax the people who are needed to do the work. I don't know how SF plan to get the arcitechs, designers, quantity surveyors etc when they are planning on taxing these people the most if elected.

Nickindublin

Its a complete mess TBH and i dont know how it can be fixed. Building costs and labour shortages are now the major problem for anyone looking at building property.

How would i fix it.

I would legislate to get non paying tenants evicted in a timely manner and make them liable for outstanding unpaid rent. For people who genuinely have hit hard times like losing their job a simplified system to get rent assistance would also need to be looked at so they can stay in their home wiith this payment going directly to landlord.

There also needs to be a fines system for tenants and landlords. This would like road traffic offences. Landlords who fail to keep their properties upto a certain standard and for tenants who do damage to property beyong wear and tear.

Legislation should also be introduced for longer leases possibly upto 10 years with one rent review after 5 years. This would give the tenant and landlord greater certainty. Also if the landlord wishes to sell the tenant would not be affected. Tax incentives would be needed for this for both parties.

We so need to build affordable homes and social housing. As i said costs and labour shortages are our biggest issues for this and then how do we pay for it. I suggest we tax Cuckoo funds to pay for this. There should be a standard tax rate of maybe 30% for them with no loopholes.

pauly58

Sad to say but no, I don't think it can be fixed. With the population increasing at a fast rate & set for 7.5 ml, then it could get a lot worse.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119496694#Comment_119496694

Not sure how you don’t know

But anyway just look at the unpaid rent in DCC housing, last time I checked it was 32m of people sitting in free houses just in Dublin

This is replicated all over the country, even a recent Sinn Fein TD sat in a house for years without paying rent, Sinn Fein as a party had no problem with that

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119496849#Comment_119496849

Who said a generation of 25-35? I certainly didn’t, if you read my post I said people in that age group are buying houses

But also people in that group do sit back waiting for a free house which you denied and now say they exist.

So will leave you at that because in the end you have agreed with what I said 👍

mikewest

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119496771#Comment_119496771

This and also stop the nonsense of demonizing landlords. If we don't have landlords we will never sort the rental crisis.

FrancieBrady

I think the salient point is, and the power swap cheerleaders don't like it, is that the electorate have lost faith in the power swap's ability to solve the issues confronting them.

If an alternative government only sort those issues by 30% it will at least be a change.

They'll look at the likes of Troy now and that conviction, that systemic change must come, will be further consolidated.

astrofool

Their plan seems to be rearranging deck chairs rather than tackling issues like planning (while actively objecting to new builds, so it'll end up as a stalemate again).

The current government spend way too much time messing with taxes and grants, SF seem hell bent on doing the same, they may get in to solve it, but will ultimately be unsuccessful.

They could however end up getting a bounce from the existing supply coming online, depending on when elections occur, and then trying to take credit for it.

Bringing developers etc. back into state control will be a disaster.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119496605#Comment_119496605

Sorry, but this is BS. The idea that Sinn Fein will pander to roughly 5%(current unemployed rate) of the population while punishing everyone else is ridiculous. I'm fairly certain they will want to reelect so that doesn't make any sense.

It's the usual BS trotted out by scared FFGers though. There's a reason SF are the most popular party in the pills, and it ain't because they will only pander to the unemployed while ignoring everyone else.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497180#Comment_119497180

Bringing developers etc. back into state control will be a disaster.

Jaysus, if they only ensure regulations are adhered to and that flagrant breaches are properly sanctioned, it would be a major start on the road to change in this country.

mikethecop

A bunch of student union mouth pieces and pro Russia populists money grabbers controlled by who ever is in the army council these days allied with some former comrade's who are now dodgy scam artist builders who have already wonderfully displayed their inability to govern a city never mind a country ? ya they will make great use of the public purse 🙄🙄🙄

their links to organized crime alone would shame Putin or orban

many shinnerbots here proclaim the mantra , "sure they can be as bad as fffg can they" as a election slogan

well yes the can , and a lot worse

Where do Sinn Fein stand on immigration? It seems to me that immigration is a pretty big factor in the housing shortage (and will be an increasing burden on water and electricity consumption).

And where do they stand on high rise accommodation?

Dangel4x4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058259551/can-sinn-fein-fix-the-housing-crisis-or-is-it-beyond-them-or-anybody-else

Well, one thing is for sure - FF and FG have been at the helm for decades and they've clearly demonstrated that they've no interest in fixing the country's housing catastrophe. Building social housing on a small scale is no solution.

Could SF be any worse? Hardly.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497251#Comment_119497251

Give us all a shout when that tired old cliched nonsense begins to work Mike.

Seen the latest scandal of a FF ministerial incumbent's activity? And the FG/FF/Gr wagons being circled to protect him?

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497276#Comment_119497276

point proven yet again ,

sfs main mantra is we arent fffg , given everything else associated with sf its laughable

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497276#Comment_119497276

Would you expect anything different from SF? What was their opinion on one of their TDs refusing to pay her charity-subsidised rent for 4 years?

Its the hope that will kill you Francie, but when it comes down to it, SF are just the acceptable face of a terrorist org, who are promising they will solve all problems, but will do f-all.

You and others might think SF couldn’t do any worse than the poor calibre of politicians we currently have in Government, but they could, a lot worse. Say what you like about FG/FF, the fact is that in the last 10 yrs our economy has gone from bust to boom with FULL employment and lots of high paying jobs. SF, given the opportunity, undoubtedly could harm our economy.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497258#Comment_119497258

they are waiting to be told by the army council of terrorists , thats really where all major calls are made in this "democratic organization " if they have an opinion given to them then standing orders are to filibuster

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497311#Comment_119497311

As a USP, it seems to be working. Tough for you guys to accept I know.

Maybe the tired old mantra emanating back should change before it's too late? It's clearly falling on deaf ears.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497316#Comment_119497316

Well Dav, I have never said they will solve all problems (don't think they have either)

All I require of them is that they end the toxic power swap we have had here for 100 years. If the Troy affair doesn't convince you of the arrogance of power infesting our government, I don't suppose anything will.

What SF do if they get into government will be assessed then. My view is, it cannot possibly be any worse.

Brucie Bonus

There is no party that can fix the crisis. What I hope they do is turn it around and pay for builds instead of buying off the market and leasing. Companies from all over the world are coming to Ireland to build and rent to the state. We are ready made customers and it has to stop.

We need to stop relying on these companies and build social and affordable that working tax payers need.

We can't afford to continue wasting money on 25 year leases and buying off market.

We need to bar politicians and their families from investing in property until we are out of crisis.

We have the builders and companies to build for us. We need to make emergency accommodation a rarity not the norm. Its in the name ffs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497334#Comment_119497334

Of course it could be worse.

They have been in Government in the North, how has that worked out for the population?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497352#Comment_119497352

No, there is no 'government' in the north. The 'government' sits in Westminster and devolves some powers to an Executive that is run in an entirely different way to here.

This isn't that hard to grasp, it's been that way for quite some time.

And yes, it could be worse. The problem for the power swap is that they have created the circumstances were the electorate look like they want SF in government.

Bit cynical

I think they will gain power in the next election. They will throw a bit of money at the problem without fully understanding why it is a problem. When this fails, they will blame greedy landlords and developers and harangue them for not providing what the country needs. However, despite this, problems with housing will remain.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497226#Comment_119497226

Sure, but that's not the touted plan (are SF bringing in more regulators? I know they supported the government bill on the construction industry register, but it's only effective if there is people to enforce it rather than after the fact).

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497336#Comment_119497336

I've asked you this before, and barring a magic money tree answer, if you, a council, have €100m budget per annum for housing at council level and need to house 2000 families, what is your split in that budget of buying vs. renting accommodation?

And, actually on topic, are SF proposing to stop renting off private landlords and only buy properties? Is that part of their manifesto? If not, what is their proposed split and is that split different to what the current government are doing?

My own prediction is that budget realities mean very little change happens in this regard with an SF-led government.

We need to bar politicians and their families from investing in property until we are out of crisis.

That's an interesting one, do they need to divest themselves of all these assets when elected? How is it work-able, what would the legislation look like? Not allowed to invest in a pension fund that has property in it's portfolio (for example)?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497367#Comment_119497367

Not hard to grasp, yet you haven’t grasped it.

The elected, local politicians, not Westminister MPs make the key decisions on how Northern Ireland is governed.

There are a number of Government Departments in NI, so you trying an intimate that Westminister, and not the Government/Assembly that SF are elected to, control those departments, is facetious.

Northern Ireland government departments

There are nine Northern Ireland government departments:

• Department for Communities
• Department for Infrastructure
• Department for the Economy
• Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs
• Department of Education
• Department of Finance
• Department of Health
• Department of Justice
• The Executive Office

spurious

I bought in 1988. I got the roof re-done as it was leaking badly and then lived for ten years effectively out of one room. I had no heating, no washing machine and one working ring on a cooker.

I had a horrible brown couch that a friend of my mother's had been dumping.

I saved and saved for ten years to get the place rewired and replumbed (and eventually I did). Friends of mine did the same. Different generation, different attitudes, I suppose.

EOQRTL

Personally i doubt if they can but after a lifetime of voting for FG or Labour i'm willing to give them the chance to attempt to fix it the next time i step inside the voting booth.

Fandymo

The elephant in the room is uncontrolled immigration. The more people here, the more houses needed. Citizenship given out like confetti, amnesties to reward law-breakers, those from the EU who cannot support themselves put on housing lists instead of kicked out.

Until someone sorts that out, and Sinn Fein won’t, we’ll be chasing our tails as more come in than we can possibly build to keep up.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497421#Comment_119497421

How much did the house cost compared to your wage and how much is a comparable house going for nowadays?