Cash is important

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119426737#Comment_119426737

...the bulk of tax revenue during covid came from the corporate sectors, showing how much we have become over reliant on their mere existence, and the fact they are still recording record profits, including large energy companies, also shows how fcuked up things are, i.e. its got nothing to do with what you said!

...theres actually plenty of evidence to support, humans generally make poorer financial decisions via cashless methods!

growleaves

Could Texas Governor or someone else freeze bank accounts of people travelling to get an abortion? I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility. It's a good point you make Marcos.

Financial independence and privacy for the ordinary person are important.

CAB must satisfy a judge that the accounts they have frozen belong to dangerous drug wholesalers and other gangsters. Like the Special Criminal Court this is reserved for people who are in a category of their own.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427616#Comment_119427616

...this is one of the arguments for maintaining a cash society, this was one of the most serious effects of the 08 crash, the troika deliberately commandeered the banking system of greece during the euro crisis, a sure sign, if any other country ends up in that type of situation, the outcome will be the same!

Marcos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427587#Comment_119427587

Deal with that on another thread, this one is about cash. And I don't think this is the gotcha you think it is, anyway, I'll probably disappoint you by agreeing with you about them. They're bad actors simple as.

The question I asked was

"Do you think if he had the power then to stop those protestors accessing their own money he wouldn't have done it? I think he would have revelled in it, and so would a lot of his supporters."

Let's stick on topic and deal with this. Why put yourself in a situation where bad actors could have the power to stop you accessing your own money for whatever reason?

Marcos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427616#Comment_119427616

I hadn't thought of that, God that would be absolutely a nightmare scenario.

Anyway, I'm popping out of this thread for a while. Real life calls.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427657#Comment_119427657

"Do you think if he had the power then to stop those protestors accessing their own money he wouldn't have done it? I think he would have revelled in it, and so would a lot of his supporters."

We know what he would do, he would bypass all patience and pleasantries and go straight to violent put downs. As evidenced by him ordering a violent put down. Why you are asking me to theorise what he might do is quite bizarre.

Re the overall points on protests, it doesn't matter the protest. If the protest has a sustained negative effect on other citizens it should be stopped, preferably by non violent means.

I don't think any half decent human could have a problem with that.

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427610#Comment_119427610

I have plenty of friends who work as self-employed. If a customer pays in cash then it is not declared, if they pay in card etc that goes via the books. When busy customers will ring offering cash as they know they will get bumped up the list

Only in Ireland would we complain about what type of job people work in, while every other country in Europe is desperate to take those jobs from Ireland. I am old enough to remember being in school and the option was to go to UK/US/anywhere when finished. Now we have jobs and people want to complain about them? companies always made profits, just they made them in other countries. I doubt you want to go back to young people leaving Ireland because we had no jobs available?

If someone is making a bad decision with online banking they are going to do the exact same with cash. The problem you find is that too much credit is given out, I applied for a credit card and was given 16k limit. When I rang them and said I didn't want it took weeks to get them to reduce. You can't give someone 16k cash so that why online gets a bad reputation. We should have tighter controls on credit cards etc, like people raving about how much they have on a credit card limit as if it was a compliment.

To give example from today, I want to put more insulation in the house. Contacted a contractor on SEAI and asked for a price. Got it and installation next week. Then I put it onto SEAI for the grant. Anyway once it wasn't cash I was dumped from next week to an unknown date because they are "busy". No idea when it will get done

micosoft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119415878#Comment_119415878

Your tap card requires nothing to work. The tills require electricity regardless of cash or digital cash.

Here is the question. There is a cost for business to handle cash. Who should pay for that? Would it be ok for businesses to have a separate cash handling charge.

Lots of people claimed cheques were essential but they are gone now.

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429277#Comment_119429277

The insurance costs for business as they are holding cash are increased. That's why you will start to see more giving up holding cash as it is too much hassle....

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429589#Comment_119429589

Insurance costs for cash is a tiny fraction of the overall cost of business insurance when compared to fire/public liability/employers liability/loss of earnings/computer data loss etc. Looking at my own business insurance, policy has insurance of up to €10k in cash without any additional cost. I would suspect insurance on cash has significantly decreased from the days when transactions were primarily in cash.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119426737#Comment_119426737

It was most the service sector that was closed during COVID. Technical and Pharmaceutical actually expanded. The public sector operated at the same level. The Health sector expanded and employed more. The building sector closed and reopened.

Most of those that were laid off were those working in the food and beverage sector. Most of these would be part-time or minimum wage. Students ended up earning more on CoVID support.

riclad

Junkies get free drugs from the local clinic, they can hardly walk fast, they are not in the habit of robbing shops, if they need money they beg,. We solved that problem in Ireland the only toilets we have are in shopping centres or cafes, pubs. I still see people using basic phones , no apps at all. Maybe it's like driverless cars, it's 5 years away always. If you have no online bank finance apps you can't be hacked.

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429277#Comment_119429277

I've got 2 cheques in the last week for payment and still regularly get them throughout the year along with cash, you might not see them but people are still using them along with cash

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429277#Comment_119429277

Lots of people claimed cheques were essential but they are gone now

No they aren't.

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119431248#Comment_119431248

The banks charge a significant amount per cheque and to get a book. I know my parents use them but only because some people will still demand a cheque for payment and won't accept CC payments. They would prefer to use a credit card etc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119430310#Comment_119430310

Self-employed was shut down, so all the chiropractors/chiropodists/etc etc dotted around Ireland all closed down.

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119431757#Comment_119431757

So what's your point

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119431982#Comment_119431982

Cheques are only used by people if they have to and have no other option. DO you offer customers to pay using credit/debit/revolut?

Marcos

You said:

We know what he would do, he would bypass all patience and pleasantries and go straight to violent put downs. As evidenced by him ordering a violent put down. Why you are asking me to theorise what he might do is quite bizarre.

You're still dancing around and avoiding the actual question here, which was if he had the power to cut protestors off from their money as a way of punishing them do you think he would do it? This could also be after any violent put down. Given the subject matter of this thread, it's hardly a bizarre question.

Re the overall points on protests, it doesn't matter the protest. If the protest has a sustained negative effect on other citizens it should be stopped, preferably by non violent means.

I don't think any half decent human could have a problem with that.

So in that instance you fully support cutting protestors off from accessing their own money. Fair enough, at least we know where you stand.

The question then becomes who decides that any protest has a sustained negative effect on other citizens? If the truckers protest in Canada was in the US and protesting against the Trump regime would you feel the same way? Or the Black Lives Matter protests after the murder of George Floyd, they could definitely be said to have had a sustained negative effect on other citizens in the US? Would any half decent human being support cutting off access to protestors own money? I don't see these things as black and white, if you forgive the pun.

The Continental Op

Just a thought that occurred to me. Sounds a bit silly but how do you know what money is worth if there is no cash?

Cash is something tangible you can see. I think handling cash gives you a feeling for the value of money. Will kids brought up with their pocket money paid to their phone have the slightest clue about money?

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119432230#Comment_119432230

How does holding a bit of paper teach you the value of money?

Id imagine that the embarrassment of trying to pay for something and having their card rejected would teach people a lot more the value of money than knowing they cant go to the shop in the first place as they have no cash.

growleaves

I still use cheques. They are convenient for me in certain instances

Again how does removing payment options benefit the customer?

Banks want to do nothing and collect interest. In their perfect scenario they would lay off many thousands of staff and have skeleton crews hold down a few terminals. Am I meant to be sympathetic to this desire?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119431757#Comment_119431757

The amount of people who were outside the entertainment sector that were permanently laid off was small. A lot of the workers you indicated above would be making tax returns fora year in arrears. I farm my tax for 2021 is not due until October. While you make preliminary payment you do not finalise until late in the next year. You forget that many of these health professionals were redirected to work in covid test centers. Many retired nurses and doctors were taken back on. With there pension they would be paying the high tax rate on all income earned while re-employed

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119432122#Comment_119432122

Nonsense, a lot of older people pay by cheque because that's what they're used too, I got a cheque last month off a man in his 50s, they're more than welcome to pay by card but whatever way they want to pay is up to them

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119432627#Comment_119432627

Cheques are still used for a number of reasons. Beef factories still pay by cheque. It reduces accidents where you are dealing in large sums of cash.

My contractor's get paid by bank transfer or by cheque. The card machines take too much off them in charges. Bank transfers often take too long to sort in the case of large transfers.

I still pay cattle hauliers by cheque as there is too many different ones I use. I do not need to be messing with setting up a transfer and he has no need to be sort details and checking if it was paid

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119432853#Comment_119432853

Bank transfers take too long compared to a cheque?

It's like everything, people come up with reasons why XYZ should be kept.

Cheques will be long gone before Ireland goes cashless and if you see the numbers they are in a massive decline year on year. Ireland is only one of a few countries in the World that still accepts cheques. So if you use them, I would be looking at an alternative because they will be gone soon

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119432122#Comment_119432122

I paid a plumber with a cheque last a couple of weeks ago and it had nothing to do with having "no other option".

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119432230#Comment_119432230

People said the same thing about "worth" when we moved away from the Gold Standard.

However the thing is with cash, even though it is only paper, your money becomes a tangible thing. A thing that comes and goes. So, yes, it can teach a certain lesson about value. Something that's lost with endless tapping or punching numbers into a box across the counter.

BENDYBINN

What about the drug dealer? Would a cashless society put him out of business?. I think it would...

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119433345#Comment_119433345

Drug dealers are ahead of us all

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-61809398

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119433339#Comment_119433339

The other thing with cash is you can't have a negative amount of it in your hand.

I was thinking its very similar to the "worth" of money and the old Gold Standard. Then money had a gold value but now I feel we are moving to a situation were even money itself doesn't have a value and people are fine with that.