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Sabina Higgins Letter to Irish Times calling for ceasefire on Ukraine

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  • Registered Users Posts: 66,912 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It all has a whiff of silly season.

    I'd imagine the website is a blunder by a clerk. I doubt it is Sabina or M.D. uploading stuff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,012 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Jenkins is a bit of a crank and a contrarian (he almost sounds right wing in some of his opinion pieces). It's surprising to see him writing for a paper like the Guardian.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,301 ✭✭✭jmcc


    Tone of the RTE coverage seems to be changing. Also mentions that there has been no government response yet. Looks like they are trying to limit the damage to Sabina Higgins.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0730/1313131-ukraine-ambassador-higgins/

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,621 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Read my post again. It was a perceived convention. I used the word "convention" in quotes but I also used boundaries, lines etc. There is no basis for law in it and I was replying to a post with the article laid out. I will edit my post to say perceived convention but the point remains the same. It's not custom and practice since 1990.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭littlevillage


    Mickelily D or Sabine herself will have to make a statement methinks 🤔

    Gubbermint hoping to fcuk this just goes away ASAP.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,012 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    That was quite a lengthy piece on the evening news and it was the main item.

    Interesting to see what angle the Sunday newspapers take tomorrow - it may well be the main headline in a few of them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 66,912 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The Ukrainian that spoke didn’t seem too upset and was able to distinguish it from official government policy



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,301 ✭✭✭jmcc


    RTE putting the boot in on this. Looks like the international coverage has upset the holiday plans for the government. It looks like they are trying to limit the damage to just Sabina Higgins and sidestep the issue of the publication of the letter on the president's website.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users Posts: 613 ✭✭✭MakersMark


    The Mrs President is just another Lear Jet Lefty Liberal speaking the usual rubbish.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,433 ✭✭✭touts


    The moment it was posted on the presidential website it became a presidential statement.

    Apology or resignation are his only two options and the window for apology is rapidly closing.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Predicament for FFG: chance to embarrass Miggledy and get some payback for his kicking their arse over the farcical NI celebration in Armagh versus need to bury this quick to keep Eastern Europe quiet and still backing Protocol. Twitch twitch twitch.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    She's a diplomat so she knows how to play these things.

    Thing is Francie, that if you, or one of your wives had sent such a nonsensical letter to the Irish Times, then in all probability the editor would have scrunched it in a ball and thrown it into the recycling bin. But as Ireland's very own Dame Edna Everage made it clear that it was from her - by signing it Coyne-Higgins - she thereby ensured that it would be associated with our beloved President for the People - something that all but ensured its publication.



  • Registered Users Posts: 66,912 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


     to keep Eastern Europe quiet and still backing Protocol. 

    Eh?



  • Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭rdwight


    The wife of our head of state makes an ill-judged intervention into discussions about the Russian invasion of its neighbour. She waffles about moral choices but stays morally neutral on the issue of Russian aggression (unlike Geoffrey Roberts whom she references approvingly). Her letter is posted on the website of our head of state.

    Entirely predictably, the Russians are thrilled with her intervention and the Ukrainians dismayed. As the Ukrainians have been saying since early in the invasion "if the Russians stop fighting there will be no war, if the Ukrainians stop fighting there will be no Ukraine"

    According to Francie, however, the reaction to these events is because it's the silly season and because some unknown CO inadvertently pressed the wrong button.



  • Registered Users Posts: 66,912 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Clear you don't like her anyway.

    Doesn't get away from what the Ukrainian said.



  • Registered Users Posts: 66,912 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users Posts: 66,912 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Where are you getting these ideas about some relation between this event and NI protocol from?

    As far as I understand, how to respond to what the UK is doing is an EU level competence/decision. Yes, they will try and obtain consensus on it in the Council but this is not necessary to respond to UK if need be as far as I understand.

    I also just don't see the E. European states going to bat for UK on this issue (NI protocol) in a big way. Yeah, its obvious the UK govt. hopes to win their support against the "West" of the EU and the Commission and divide and conquer (been at that for several years now) but I am doubtful.

    They know that some day it could be them facing a stronger external party deliberately breaking a prior EU agreement to isolate and bully a small country in the Union (i.e. us). They will want the support of the EU and the other members on that day. This has actually already happened to an extent with another 3rd country (China - the unilateral trade sanctions it placed on Lithuania alone).

    edit: sorry probably should not have posted as very off topic...



  • Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭PalLimerick


    Yes, just like she is entitled to her opinion.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭rdwight


    Unfortunately Boggles, unless you are married to an elected holder of high office, your eminently reasonable opinion is likely to carry less weight than Sabina's sloppy musings



  • Registered Users Posts: 66,912 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Ah rd, more rubbish. IT publishes many letters every day from all and sundry.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If you think there’s a free lunch! You actually admit the UK exploiting Ukraine and don’t see how that connects to Eastern European solidarity in Protocol? Of course you do. Ireland now looks (as it is) divided on Ukraine with a considerable number of left wingers backing Sabina. I’d say there is a majority in the country in support. Very tricky for govt.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,285 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Sabina and her little man would have just rolled over for the Brits if they were around 100 years ago.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,301 ✭✭✭jmcc


    The Ukranian ambassador is a diplomat. Sabina Higgins is merely the wife of the president and hasn't been elected to anything. She is not a diplomat. The comments from the Ukranian member of parliament really showed how clueless Sabina Higgins was about the situation in Ukraine.

    In old Cold War terms, she and MDH are useful idiots. This is a serious problem beause Ireland has a seat on the UN Security Council and the appearance of the letter on the president.ie website may have effectively endorsed it. That's foreign policy and the domain of the government. Sabina Higgins is being thrown under the bus to protect MDH. Even RTE's coverage has become quite hostile in the last few hours when the story started to get international coverage. This is a damage limitation operation now. Both the Aras and the government have not commented to the media.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users Posts: 187 ✭✭glut22


    Please correct me but is it not a neutral statement from the wife of the president of a neutral country?



  • Registered Users Posts: 66,912 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I agree it shouldn't have been posted.

    Probably the same type of f* up the EU made indicating they'd trigger Art16, somebody not on top of their job,

    They realised their mistake and pulled back and apologised.

    Same will happen here I'd imagine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,621 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    It's not about a "free lunch" more that members of an organisation/club (EU) will tend to back each other up by default unless there is something strongly overriding that. As I said the action taken on the UK breaking its agreements will be an EU matter, so I think several member states would have to actively step in and assert themsleves, go to bat for the UK govt. in the EU to defend it and prevent action being taken (and therefore shaft their fellow member, Ireland and also undermine the EU + the single market that they benefit from too, by showing any outsider can resile from agreements made as they wish and pick apart the members pretty easily to stop action being taken). I can't see it happening.

    Yes it is obvious that UK view their defence/security capability and very welcome support they can give Ukraine etc. as a way to get credit with Eastern EU members (and with likes of Sweden and Finland) after they have left the EU.

    They need it. They have obligations and promises to uphold anyway as a big power in NATO. Brexit and the disruptive and angry way it was conducted by the UK govt. was a real two fingered salute to all the others who remain members. The whole "oh we love you all dearly, we really, really just don't like the EU bureaucracy, being in the EU-SSR etc etc" jesuitical thing the UK govt. try and do just doesn't really work, and falls apart when they pick fights with the likes of France and Germany in particular.

    It is not "tricky" (this letter) at all, more a domestic issue for Ireland (IMO). Other than a failure to provide military aid ourselves or provide money for the EU to purchase such aid, the govt. here has always supported Ukraine pretty strongly in the EU. That's what is important.

    A Eurostat survey on public opinion here shows public support for measures like sanctions on Russia, helping the refugees from the war, providing EU funding & supports for Ukraine etc. above the EU averages (see https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2772 from April -see the IE country factsheet).

    Even for the provision of military aid, it is higher than average which surprised me (48 % "fully approve" - highest level on a 5 point scale vs 38 % EU average).

    The country is not divided on the rights & wrongs of the war itself IMO (and clear about who the onus is on here to make peace - i.e. the invader/aggressor Russia) even if there is indeed I think more division over issues of our military neutrality and what it now means for Ireland + its EU membership etc. in this future where the Union may be under threats of force from outside powers like Russia.

    Post edited by fly_agaric on


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A few years the Irish Times introduced a gender balance quota on the Letters Page (I worked there). Too many men. That played out well....

    The IT will have to roll out the home baking Northside Ballymaloe indignation of Roisin Ingle and the appalling Kathy "It was in the Guardian last week" Sheridan before new resident grump Anne Harris has a go at Sabina on Tuesday. That Sabina has been criticized by other women is now causing Fintan a major tizzy. https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0730/1313131-ukraine-ambassador-higgins/. What a tiresome bloody newspaper.

    On the other hand, who knew Michael D was such a whizz with WordPress....



This discussion has been closed.
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