Sabina Higgins Letter to Irish Times calling for ceasefire on Ukraine

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408324#Comment_119408324

Even if you judge it to be implictly pro-Putin, and even if you are correct, he has not taken an explicitly pro-Putin position. So its not as bad as you make it out to be.

I am surprised at how optimistic posters are here about Ukraine regaining territory. I guess the idea is that the sanctions will at some point crater Russia's economy so badly that they will scuttle away in a withdrawal?

happyoutscan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408350#Comment_119408350

She should resign from going above her station. She's so far up herself, none of us should have to deal with her arrogant egotism. Absolutely insufferable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408049#Comment_119408049

Never thought that I'd write this, but that's unfair to her husband. Much as I loathe the little popinjay, he's certainly not brainless ...........

FrancieBrady

A point worth making. The intolerance of different views is a bit scary tbh. And it was only a view, a letter to the IT, not a speech at the UN.

https://twitter.com/lrishman_/status/1553394281368457222

jmcc

RTE just covered it:

https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0730/1313131-ukraine-ambassador-higgins/

If RTE is covering it then this story has legs.

Regards...jmcc

Furze99

Has the presidents office made any sort of statement or clarification yet? She is entitled as a private citizen to express her opinions privately, but most certainly not publicly as 'first lady' and most certain not on official sites. I'm expecting a retraction and apology or if not there has to be consequences inc resignation of the president himself.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408481#Comment_119408481

you are confusing intolerance with being critical of.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408497#Comment_119408497

Never happen. It's not that there shouldn't be consequences, but you're forgetting where you live.

There'll be some noise over the weekend in the media and by political commentators, but by Tuesday everyone will have moved on. Everyone loves Michael D for whatever reason (never been a fan myself).

Storm in a teacup in real terms. Outside of social media and the local press, no one directly involved in the conflict cares what she says - or Ireland for that matter. Simply put, we're not that important!

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408501#Comment_119408501

See post above yours.

An 'Apologise or else cancel yourself' demand

Ridiculous really.

I say that as somebody who would be critical of what she wrote.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408541#Comment_119408541

All the same she badly needs to have her wings (or broomstick) clipped after this little piece of witless and inappropriate carry-on.

SEPT 23 1989

I have no time for that pair of champagne socialists that live at my expense in the park

but I believe they can say whatever they want

That’s the difference between right and left in today’s world

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408194#Comment_119408194

Hold on a minute (I have more time now)...What strawman? You responded to me after I had responded to another poster on the constitutional position of the president. You got it wrong, that is not my fault.

When Higgins expressed his opinion on the housing disaster political, constitutional law 'experts' lined up to tell us he had crossed the line. There is no such line. They expressed a view that Higgins had breached a "convention" that bars him from expressing a political view. There is no such convention. It's all made up incessantly by politicians/people who don't think or can't think. It's then repeated as devine mantra in media and social media too willing to believe what politicians tell them.

Where did the perceived convention come from? It emerged from the traditional pomposity of FF and FG leaders. FF held the post for 43 years and saw the position as their own. They passed it from one loyal FF servant to another like a trophy.

The line or boundary or convention is not mentioned in the Constitution. It's not in there.

The Constitution is specific: The president must get the approval of the government for an address to the Oireachtas, or an address to the nation. Speeches in the course of daily work are not mentioned. Not once.

The constitution does say that the president must swear "to dedicate my abilities to the service and welfare of the people of Ireland". Those abilities would include the ability to think, write and speak.

The president is invited to countless events each year, many by volunteer groups who seek social improvement. He is expected to say something appropriate. Would you have him deny reality? The notion that all such remarks should be pre-approved is ridiculous. Utterly stupid.

I'll leave it at that and acknowledge that the thread is about a different matter but I wanted to clarify greenleaves earlier point on the housing speech.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408562#Comment_119408562

Would be something you would expect from a politboro or authoritorian regime.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408579#Comment_119408579

Would it though? Juan Carlos or Queen Elizabeth or any number of heads of state do no contradict their governments because it would be a nightmare for any government to have the one person who 'outranks' them undermining their position.

Like you, I think our political culture is too rigid and monolithic so I like hearing differing opinions but having the President dishing them out officially can create waves.

This is getting interesting. The letter has wide support on the left of Irish politics as well as pacifists from all perspectives.

It resonates with far right xenophobes and Russian immigrants here.

Its intensely embarrassing for the govt as it exposes to international view the unease here about the war. Remember that leading Irish journalists called for “de escalation” in the war and said anything else was “immoral”.

The dominant view in the narrative about war/neutrality/defence in Ireland has always been we are anti military and great at making peace. We portray ourselves to ourselves as an example to the world.

Now we have a problem: in order to try to keep Eastern Europe onside over the Protocol (Brits earning great kudos with military support) we have to pay the bill: take every Ukrainian which is beginning to cause issues too and support EU membership for Ukraine.

Mrs Miggledy might cause the rally of the left to a pro peace March. Hard for Labour and independent left to keep away. Propaganda for Russia. Hysteria for MM as the EU solidarity wobbles.

Events. Events.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408497#Comment_119408497

The Aras has not responded to the Irish Times, the Indo or RTE.

The government and no doubt the Higgins supporters want this mess to go away quickly. RTE, as usual, is in spin mode with a statement from the Ukrainian ambassdor about her understanding that it is not government policy.

The British have not yet asked for an apology over Holst being called a German composer.

Regards...jmcc

rock22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408608#Comment_119408608

Juan Carlos and Queen Elizabeth have no democratic legitimacy, unlike Michael D. Higgins.

For what it's worth, all Sabina seems to be saying, in her letter, is that there needs to be a move towards peace. I couldn't agree more. I am sure the president is of the same view.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408658#Comment_119408658

But they are heads of state. They're considered legitimate within their own countries. They can't be seen to be "thwarting" their own governments.

ZX7R

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408658#Comment_119408658

I think the problem is how she criticised that a ceasefire wasn't called for in the article.

I don't believe she actually knows what a ceasefire is or entails.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408608#Comment_119408608

Every word said at a function has to be vetted?

That would be impossible and ridiculous.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408752#Comment_119408752

I agree but publishing a written political opinion on a web site takes premeditation. Its not as off-the-cuff as just saying something.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408688#Comment_119408688

To implore people to negotiate in a ceasefire is hardly 'thwarting' the government.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408763#Comment_119408763

I think it could be seen that way if the Government specifically disfavour it. They are very gung-ho with putting giant blue and yellow flags up around Dublin (which I dontt agree with) and with what Varadkar said about Putin and Russia.

jmcc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408752#Comment_119408752

This is a foreign policy issue and that's the government's domain. The fact that the letter was then posted on the president's site effectively gave it a presidential endorsement. Ireland has a seat on the UN Security Council.

Without that letter appearing on the president.ie website, it could easily have been dismissed as pseudo-intellectual waffle. But it was on the president.ie website and the Russian ambassador has used it. It is the whole Cold War useful idiot thing playing out again.

Regards...jmcc

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408658#Comment_119408658

Her letter should not have appeared on the Aras website. However I think half the population will be calling for peace mid-winter if we have power cuts, food shortages and excessive fuel/energy prices. There is a very real risk of all 3. And it doesn't take into account of the risk of famine and deprivation in poorer countries.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408761#Comment_119408761

A piece written by the wife of the President not the President himself.

Getting dangerously close to making her his chattel.

Putting it on the website temporarily should be addressed

She is entitled to speak her mind IMO

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408481#Comment_119408481

The narrative that Ukraine is under assault from it's neighbour?

What other narrative is there?

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408562#Comment_119408562

They expressed a view that Higgins had breached a "convention" that bars him from expressing a political view. There is no such convention. It's all made up incessantly by politicians/people who don't think or can't think. It's then repeated as devine mantra in media and social media too willing to believe what politicians tell them.

Where did the convention come from? It emerged from the traditional pomposity of FF and FG leaders. FF held the post for 43 years and saw the position as their own. They passed it from one loyal FF servant to another like a trophy.

The line or boundary or convention is not mentioned in the Constitution. It's not in there.

The second highlighted statement contradicts the first one

Here's the relevant definition of convention from Merriam-webster:

 2 : a custom or a way of acting and doing things that is widely accepted and followed

Presidents have refrained from expressing views on 'hot' political issues for most of the history of the office, ipso there is a convention. It doesn't have to derive from the constitution to exist.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408822#Comment_119408822

I don't think there's much danger of her being considered chattel. Married people are sometimes considered one unit (they aren't compelled to testify against each other in court) which doesn't mean the woman is the slave of the man.

Anyway I think most are agreed that the appearance on the official web site is the main issue.

I think her opinion will gain more traction as sanctions are seen to have backfired and caused hardship.

growleaves

Guardian columnist says sanctions haven't worked and that is an Establishment newspaper

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/29/putin-ruble-west-sanctions-russia-europe