URC 2022 Thread

Neil3030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120023473#Comment_120023473

What would you prefer?

Say you worked in the UK, only Irish person, and someone gave you a rotten potato and a copy of the penal laws for Secret Santa. A good chunk of the room laughs.

You'd feel ok coming to work each day after that?

Neil3030

Oh and to be clear, that'd be nowhere near as bad as what they did to Traore.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120023473#Comment_120023473

Thats irrelevant.

Its about what the Club ought to do, under their code of conduct and under whatever employment and equality laws exist in Italy.

The player is not the arbiter. Nor should any victim be asked to be.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120023526#Comment_120023526

Well in that scenario I would go to HR and report what had happened. The context of how it was given would come into any investigation I am sure.

If you’re asking me would I seek to have the person sacked. No I wouldn’t, as I would imagine the workplace would become intolerable fairly quickly.

I am not defending the actions of this person or the team. I just don’t believe sacking the person is the appropriate response. Maybe you’re ok with people losing their livelihood, which is an easy decision from your armchair. I’m not, i believe that it’s an action that will bring more division than healing.

Neil3030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120023572#Comment_120023572

Yes. From whatever chair I ever sit in, I'm confident that I will consider it more important for workplaces to be free from racist bullying, than for racist white people to keep "their livelihood".

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120023592#Comment_120023592

Well that’s good for you then.

pickarooney

Neither an apology or a firing is going to change the fact that the entire team thinks that is is an acceptable thing to do to a teammate.

I don't think I could stomach going back to work knowing that about the entire staff.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120023733#Comment_120023733

It's not the entire team. He said in his statement that some players, especially foreign players supported him.

Zeugnis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120023410#Comment_120023410

I'd be interested in hearing what you think is the sensible way to approach this, genuinely.

You, and several other posters, are correct in saying that this type of racism is a commonplace in Italy. I lived there for five years and observed numerous instances of it. There were tricky situations where i was strongly tempted to hurt teenagers who were shouting this stuff at Africans in the street - bit of a dilemma that.

It starts from the top In Italy, leading figures in sport and politics think they're hilarious when they make jokes about black people and bananas etc and then try and brush off criticism on the grounds that it was just a joke. In Rome there's a rugby club with a strong antiracist/antifascist profile, and they get a lot of this crap at away games (aimed at them because of their politics not their ethnicity).

What can be done? I think you're right that sacking isn't the answer. A few options which occur to me, in escalating order:

- a significant fine, money to be assigned to an organisation of Traore's choice.

- identify those involved and oblige them to coach kids in areas with large immigrant populations (plenty of these in the Veneto where Treviso are based). Personal contact with people outside of one's usual social sphere is often the best medicine for these attitudes.

- dock points from Treviso in either the UCR or Challenge Cup i.e. hold the club responsible. When racist behaviours have consequences for the whole team and the financial success of the club, it will become clear to the players involved that there is a price to be paid for their banter, and the peer dynamics can be mobilised in a constructive direction.

Obviously any/all of these potential sanctions would have to be written into player contracts/competition rules.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120023410#Comment_120023410

Yeah, for sure. That's what I meant by "that environment" while using woolly language admittedly.

Sometimes a massive crackdown on colloquially accepted but generally unacceptable behaviour is what is required though. And its utterly unfair on the individual involved in one respect, but legally speaking the idea of making an example has good founding.

Essentially the argument against a firing being deserved is that it is a super common transgression in Italy so its unfair on the individual. But sometimes the outcome is "well tough, you should have known that was **** stupid".

OldRio

My calendar says 2022. I thought for a moment I was back in 1965.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120023922#Comment_120023922

I think that the player involved should make a public apology for a start. He should also be fined by the club and as you suggest Traore should decide where that goes to.

I think the whole team should be asked to engage in anti racism promotion. They should probably also be asked to volunteer directly with migrant organizations. To provide some community service, as such.

The club itself needs to step up and put some action in, rather than just platitudes. There needs to be a strong message sent to the team and also the supporters that these attitudes have consequences for the people who have to suffer them. Including the players they support.

Former Former Former

I dunno. Like, this wasn't an off-the-cuff remark or a joke taken out of context.

A guy drew Traore's name in the secret santa, thought long and hard about what to get him, and thought the best idea was a rotting banana.

Not only did he get him a rotting banana, but Traore had the added indignity of pulling the f**king yoke out in front of all his team-mates, at least some of whom thought this was hilarious.

Are you really going to roll this guy out in front of local schoolkids and have him talking about how racism is bad? How genuine would that be?

Very hard to see how the culprit deserves anything other than a P45 tbh.

The Italian police or their DPP are investigating

And a player I'm assuming (Google translate says member) has been suspended

Former Former Former

https://www.rte.ie/sport/united-rugby-championship/2022/1222/1343342-traore-receives-apology-after-being-given-rotten-banana/

Sure all is well that ends well.

Neil3030

Munster will need a prop after Ryan goes, is this lad half decent and does he like **** weather? Would love to see the IRFU bend the NIE rules for a special circumstance like this. Get him the hell out of there.

PMC83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120026033#Comment_120026033

I don't think Munster should be signing lads who are 'half decent' tbh, if they are signing NIQs you want someone very decent.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025975#Comment_120025975

Some c*** is still getting fired AND having his collar felt by the local magistrate.

Maybe more than one.

Lost Ormond

Stormers hammering the Bulls. 32-13 with 25 to go..

Theyve just got 3 tries in 10 minutes. Some real good scores as well

Dubinusa

Lions getting mullered!

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120029725#Comment_120029725

Lions were playing earlier. they were well beaten by sharks. 37-10.

realhorrorshow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120029719#Comment_120029719

Caught a bit of it, physicality was incredible. Great crowd too.

Neil3030

Terrific occasion in Cape Town. Must have been 20k there easily?

Some great rugby too, from two completely different styles. Bulls with the impeccably drilled tight carrying, Stormers with the flair. Very competitive contest until well into the second half. Stormers also showed very aggressive defense to weather potential Bulls comeback.

sydthebeat

Zebre already 14 - 0 up against Benetton.

Trulla with an 80m interception.

Can parma chalk up their first win of the season?

Burkie1203

17-12 now. Zebra red card for an awful tackle too

Dave_The_Sheep

I see that ended as expected.

Digifriendly

Sharks look to have turned round their season and Stormers look set for Top 4 finish.

25,000 at Sharks vs Bulls - same crowd figure as Edinburgh vs Glasgow.

Neil3030

Full house in Cardiff by the looks of things. Love that little stadium they have there.

Digifriendly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120052847#Comment_120052847

Interestingly I saw empty spaces including some in the stand.

Neil3030

Strong enough Stormers team here in Glasgow. Latter just scored a great counter-attacking try. Should be a good game