URC 2022 Thread

Burkie1203

Glasgow just scored a cracker v stormers

Very open start

Neil3030

WWE attitude-era vibes hearing the Glasgow fans chant what sounds like "A**HOLE, A**HOLE"

Neil3030

Dweeba has all the tools, but does seem to just lose the head sometimes.

Burkie1203

Glasgow are such a dumb side

vienne86

Really entertaining match. Great win for Glasgow!

Podge_irl

That was a wonderful game of rugby (and a great result for Leinster).

Neil3030

#bestleague

PMC83

Amazing match, possibly lucky for Glasgow at the end? Scrum ascendancy or not I couldn't believe they choose to pack down twice in front of the posts when scores were level, rather then kick the three. Lost a lot of ground but made good in the end.

Neil3030

I'm fascinated by the logistics of the new URC format, and whether the travel demands on SA teams are any better than they were in Super Rugby.

Take the 2019 Super Rugby regular season, and take Bulls.

The regular season runs for 4 months (mid Feb to mid June). In that space of time you are granted only 2 bye weeks, and otherwise play 16 rounds. So quite tightly packed.

Bulls made a total of 2 overseas tours, by the looks of things.

First tour was a single game in Argentina in round 2. Shortest flights I can find would be from Jo'Burg, via Paris, total travel of 30 hours. Plus a 5-hour jetlag. They were given no bye-week here on either side, playing at home in round 1, away in Buenos Aires 7 days later in round 2, then away (albeit in Jo'Burg, right beside Pretoria) 7 days later in round 3.

Second tour was four games long, starting in round 14 away to Melbourne. Shortest flights I can find would be from Jo'Burg, via Sydney, total travel of 15 hours. Plus a 9-hour jetlag. They again had no help from bye weeks, playing home in round 13, then away in Melbourne 7 days later. The following week (15) they played a game in Canberra. A one-hour flight away. The following week (16) they played in Aukland and my guess here is that they made a 3-4 hour bus trip to Sydney for a direct flight (3 hours). The following week (17) they were in Dunedin, a two-hour flight. They then made their way home to play in the next round (18) 8 days later. The best case scenario here is a 19-hour journey via Sydney, and then an 11-hour jetlag to overcome (which would at least be Westerly, which I, at least, find easier to manage).

So very rough calculation suggests they spent a total of around 100 hours traveling, if you include stopovers and for e.g., the bus from Canberra to Sydney to fly to Aukland. Assuming too that they leave and return as early as they can after preceding matches, they were probably away from home for a total of around 5 weeks. Also a few nasty jet-lags to overcome along the way.

Now let's look at this season in the URC (regular season only, and let's forget the ERC for now), which runs for 7 months between September and April:

They appear to have four tours scheduled (or already completed), and while some catch an away leg in the ERC, I'll largely factor that out of travel demands, to keep the comparison as URC vs Super Rugby, since technically you can't budget on being in it every year. But obviously a more thorough picture would need to incorporate the ERC travel too.

First tour started in round 4, away to Glasgow. This was a week after the previous home game in round 3. Shortest flights I can find would be from Jo'Burg, via Heathrow, total travel of 15 hours. The following week (16) they played Munster, most likely traveling via Dublin, so let's say 4 hours travel including a coach to Limerick. The following week (16) they played Benetton, again, probably coach to Dublin and 3-hour flight to either Milan/Bologna/ Venice with a few more hours (liberally estimate 3) on a coach in Italy. The following week (16) they played back home, after a nine-day gap. Shortest flight I could find home for them was 13 hours from Milan via Addis Ababa (add on 3 hours coach ride from Treviso to the airport).

That was their last tour of 2022 (at least for the URC), and did not travel again (for the URC) until early January, for a one-game tour to play Dragons. Likely did a direct flight to London (11hrs) and coach to Newport (3 hours). Next game is 8 days later at home (albeit in the ERC).

They will then play a one-game tour to play Scarlets on Jan 27th. This is off the back of an away ERC game, but let's say again a flight to London (11hrs) and coach (4 hours) to West Wales. Next game is 3 weeks later at home.

Then the final tour will again be a single game against Ulster, where the shortest route is via London (15 hours). They'll have had a three-week break before that, but possibly a tight turnaround after it if they are in the KO stages of the ERC.

Adding all that up, you're roughly looking at 130 hours of travel. In terms of time away, it's around 6 weeks. I know it's not a completely like-for-like comparison, but it's fairly clear they'll do more travel as part of the URC.

But I suppose the key differences is the lack of any major jet lag, and also slightly kinder recovery times between games, especially during the 6N.

Dragging it out over 7 months is likely much easier to deal with, and also, for tours like that one to Dragons, you could very much get away with a developmental side.

However that said, the travel is still a bit of a slog on them, and I can empathise with recent comments made by Jake White, after he sent the second team to Exeter in the ERC. Hopefully the URC can tighten things up a bit, logistically, to cut one, or ideally two tours off their schedule.

Podge_irl

The idea that they are travelling econ completely blows my mind. On a biz class flight, I don't think you can overstate the difference between flying north vs flying east/west.

There is probably still work to be done to make the overseas tours as kind as possible.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Travel is about econ and routing.

IMO the problem is South Africa to Doha to London via Qatar rather than South Africa to Heathrow via British Airways or Virgin. Its a 12 hour direct flight and it almost always flies at night. Fly it in business class or first class where people can sleep on the plane and fly it direct.

The alternate route is 16 hour flight time + time between changes.

This might not be possible due to the Qatar airways sponsorship deal but blame the deal and blame the travel choices.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120086873#Comment_120086873

Completely agree on this, and to exacerbate the situation, I think the SA teams are typically flying via Doha, so the trips are even longer and more drawn out than necessary. Example I read mentioned the Stormers have 40 hours of travel time to arrive in Glasgow for their game at the weekend.

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087392#Comment_120087392

It all comes down to money a direct business flight from joburg to Heathrow is 5k a direct flight in economy is 750 Euro and if you go indirect in economy it’s 500 Euro.

so 250k direct business class for a 50 people v 25k for an indirect economy

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087487#Comment_120087487

Sure, but if they can't afford to send at least the playing squad (or its not covered as part of the participation agreement) then its a bit of a farce. You can't expect players to do that journey in economy and play to their max level, or anywhere close to it.

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087587#Comment_120087587

I believe this wasn't as much of an issue last year. I presume direct flights were done then.

Or maybe its Europe adding extra trips north thats making this talked about more.

I believe that the Qatar Doha indirect flight is a result of the deal with Qatar airways appointing them official travel partners for SARU and the URC.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087619#Comment_120087619

Jake White was talking about them doing that in economy though! whatever about going via Doha, if the deal didn't involved biz class flights its an appalling deal!

Boscoirl

when we went to SA the first year of the SA teams. Munster travelled Business( some of the academy players might have had to go economy).

we had to get a later flight back because if it.

was talking to one of the Munster back room staff in the airport. and he mentioned that they had a budget for travel and had to make it work. 2 players had to go on the later flight with us. The time of year for the flights (April) wasn’t kind to Munster. He mentioned that Leinster had gone down the previous Nov and it was a cheaper time to fly.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120082546#Comment_120082546

Is this even in question anymore?

I'd go further and say not only is it the best league - but it's the most sustainable also.

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087587#Comment_120087587

It’s a 12 hour flight at night with practically no time difference couldn’t get an easier long haul flight. 225k euro to an Irish team is very different to a sa teams buying flights in ZAR. It’s 4m ZAR which equates to lots of acedemy contracts and staff

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087719#Comment_120087719

A 12 hour flight at night in economy is a disaster for a professional sports person. Cramped conditions and no real sleep and then doing into a game a few days later? That's ridiculous. I completely agree its far better than the travel to Aus/NZ/Arg, but if they are flying econ it removes a lot of those benefits.

This shouldn't be coming down to the economics of each team or else we are just setting the competition up to fail. Maybe the SA teams are given enough to fly properly and are pocketing the difference. Maybe White was not being completely forthcoming in his statements. But its a bit weird.

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087732#Comment_120087732

It’s up to the SA teams to decide how they spend… 4m ZAR is a lot of money and way more than they would get on ticket sales for the majority of games.

There is no jet lag and it’s only 12 hours and the same as a bus trip to Cape Town, or PE

Travelling and competing like anything takes a bit of getting used to but once you have a system it's fairly straight forward. Bar for academy or very junior prospects the travel component of competitive professional sports isn't really a performance factor. Most elite athletes for example run their fastest times outside their home country.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087873#Comment_120087873

Look I don't particularly trust Jake White, but there is nothing you can do to get used to travelling for 20+ hours in economy.

"I'm sure SA Rugby or the organisers have to look at ways in which they can make it a little more travel-friendly. For a two-metre guy to fly 21 hours via Doha economy class, and then sit on a bus for four hours from London Heathrow to Exeter is not really seen as high performance or for a team that wants to win the competition."

Maybe this was just for the EPCR, though he has implied the same in the past for the URC. Maybe its the Bulls pocketing money somewhere. But the travel component, under these conditions, would be astronomical.

Neil3030

Everyone who saw the game is thinking this, so I'll just go ahead and ask it straight out:

HOW IN THE EVER LIVING F*CK DID THE LIONS TIGHT-HEAD PROP FLY ECONOMY.

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087897#Comment_120087897

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Neil3030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087679#Comment_120087679

I must confess that I probably don't watch enough Gallagher Prem or Top 14 to form a strong opinion. It will certainly be interesting to see what the composition of the knockouts will be in the ERC this season, how many English, French, etc. I have little doubt that the majority will be URC.

Sustainability wise though, yes, it really does seem to have a unique advantage through its "semi-state-like" governance, and 5 unions working both in collaboration with each other, and hierarchically overseeing their own individual underlying club structure.

Timing belt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087942#Comment_120087942

Will be interesting to see does this translate to sponsorship $$$.

The SA teams have really given an injection of life

pickarooney

The Top14 is surely the most sustainable. The rand, flight duration, Zebre, the WRU, fan engagement are all sticks in the spokes of the URC. The Top14 has well supported clubs, packed stadiums, tradition, a compact geographical travel zone and the same currency throughout, with 16 more professional teams to draw from should anything happen to a top flight club.

And the JIFF rules and the DNACG are there to ensure continuity and stability on a sporting and financial level respectively.

It's be no means perfect but incomparable with Super Rugby or the Premiership.

Rugbymad2020

I spoke to a lady high up with the sharks and she told be UrC book and pay for slights and hotels.if I was Jake white or Dobson or any of the Sa coaches I’d refuse to have the players travel those long routes in economy

PMC83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087976#Comment_120087976

Is it self sustainable though? Plenty of money men involved in that league and what happens when they step away? Theres a lot of brown envelopes in French rugby.