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Capped high capacity magazines

  • 28-07-2022 12:59pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 25


    I recently finally got my m&p 15 sport 2 after a number of months of Hassle and it included a 10 round 5.56 magazine witch works well however I only have one mag so I plan to import more as I dobt any firearm dealers will have any here now I’m wondering if it is possible to import 30 round magazines and pin them to 10 or to import 30 rounders that have already been pinned to 10 this is because I think they look cooler and they are bigger and easier to take in and out of the rifile I am aware that semi auto centerfire rifiles with more than 10 round capacity are prohibited and would not be legal but would pinned to 10 be ok??



Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,423 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    https://www.oberlandarms.com/parts/magazine-lader/414/oa-active-mag-5.56x45mm/.300blk-10-schuss-3-farben

    Try those, essentially German pmags but only have a capacity of 10, and are done in such a way to comply with EU law too.


    And nope, mags over 10 rounds for a cf rifle would make them prohibited items, so you couldn't import 30s and then restrict them.

    Not even a dealer could import them unless they were a prohib dealer(dunno if there actually are any).

    Post edited by otmmyboy2 on

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    And pinning the higher-capacity mags isn't an option either. The mag body must be only able to physically hold ten rounds.

    You still can get the 20-rounders...BUT you need certification that you are either military,LE, or come from a country that allows you to possess these mags under the EU directive exemption for sport shooting... Thanks for nothing DOJ!!!😡

    However,3D printing is your friend. You can get a connector that combines two 10-rounders end to end and gives the feel, and [almost] the capacity of a 20-round mag.O(n E gun for about 15 euros all in. Or go "gangsta" and use duct or electricians tape😄https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=18382290#img

    This is perfectly legal too, as the 2 X10 round mags are separate entities, not one single mag holding 20 rounds. How does this make society all safer....Answer on a postcard to...🙄

    PS Well wear with the new shooting iron.Nice to see a new member in the SACF pool.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    There are no magazine restrictions up North or in mainland Britain. Although I don’t personally believe magazines like 10/30 pmags are legal, there is precedent to say that limiting magazines doesn’t change them from restricted to non restricted. With a SA CF rifle I wouldn’t risk it.

    Congrats on the rifle anyways, did you have much trouble getting it? Did you have any other licenses before? I thought I remember you inquiring about some licenses in the not too distant past.



  • Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    AFAIK you can get any capacity with a BKA exemption in Germany, not just 30. I could be wrong, but that’s what a firearms manufacturer says on their website. The directive on magazines is truly infuriating with its vagueness, but such is life.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,423 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Correct, so long as you can justify that capacity of course.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    However, in Germany, they made an ab-sol-ute clusterfuk of the legislation on this!!! As Katja Treibel pointed out to them that they would in the Berlin regional parliament during a hearing on this.

    There are now 3 classes of high-capacity mags in German gun law.

    Mags owned before the magazine ban came in if you had a suitable rifle for them,are classified as grandfathered, but you can't do any buying or selling or trading with them, and it's questionable if you can pass them on if you were to trade or sell the gun.

    Mags bought between the EU directive and it being enacted into German Federal law are classified as CAT A prohibited items, and must be either surrendered, destroyed or get an exemption by showing you are engaged in a shooting discipline that requires high capacity. Gun dealers have to store them in disassembled states in their safes.

    Post ban high capacity mags, yes you can get the BKA exemption.BUT good luck in getting it!Its about as easy to get as the German concealed carry permit.As they are now gearing it more towards military/LE and exempted persons and export of the mags.IOW you had better have proof that you need these mags by showing you are a pro-IPSC shooter with sponsorship or something in the like.Or you are shopping for Mr Vlad Zelensky...

    Trying to prove the above first two classes has become an utter farce!

    As before and still mags are considered non-essential components, you could buy mags aplenty of all types, even if you didn't have a gun for them, and there were folks who preferred just collecting such. When the ban came in of course there was mass panic buying of an unregistered, made in the millions, disposable part all over the EU and especially Germany. It became the joke on how to prove your mags you bought days before the ban is still a grandfathered mag or the especially dangerous between the laws mag?

    It becomes even more fun, when you get to things like having a pistol and carbine with interchangeable of type mags.Or when you have a specific caliber like the 450 SOCOM that needs a 20-round mag to give you the legal capacity of 10 rounds.

    When us Germans do a multiple car wreck on the Autobahn or screw up our gun laws we do an excellent job on both!

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭breakemall


    Just to confuse things, maybe?

    If you had one of these in a 20 round maghttps://riflemags.co.uk/magpul-minus-10-round-limiter-for-pmag-gen-m3-5-56-magazines-3-pack/, as it is an integral part of the mag (being the base plate rather than just a plug) would it be a 10 round mag under the regulations?



  • Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    Does anyone have any official info on the case about capped magazines? Like verdict and judges comments etc.

    Also just another thing to consider about how some carbines use Glock magazines, thus making them “loading devices for long CF SA firearms”. Hence capping Glock and other similar mags at 10, but effectively bans them if you go off the magazine body cut off. By that I mean 10 round Glock magazines can fit more than 10 rounds if you disassemble them, making them no different than a 33 round mag pinned to 10.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,423 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Nope, because the mag body itself is still >20 rounds.

    The only compliant method is having a 10 round magazine body and a fake hollow part link the mags I linked above or similar.


    Or ones whose body has been designed to preclude a capacity greater than 10 rounds, like this:


    The indented parts prevent the follower from going past the point of 10 rounds, but are part of the actual magazine body, not a separate part or a part that was ever separate if that makes sense.

    Post edited by otmmyboy2 on

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭JackieChang


    I've just arrived from the front page. I'm not a gun enthusiast and don't have the foggiest about them. But that gun OP mentioned, the M&P 15 SPORT II. Looks like a serious piece of kit! Is that something like the AR-15 from America?

    Are they actually legal here?! Or is OP from up north or something. Interesting.

    How do you justify buying something so hardcore to the guards?



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,423 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Those are actually not licencable in NI.

    Here they are legal, but you have to jump through all the hoops of our licencing process, and on top of that prove why that M&P would be needed vs an obsolete design(ie bolt action).

    Not going to go off topic more that that here but have a look at the shooting forum homepage and you'll find a breakdown of all the requirements of gun ownership here, but suffice it to say they are somewhat extensive.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    There are/were no cases that I know off regarding capped mags for SACF rifles. Pistols yes, but not rifles.

    Section 4(e) of SI 420/2019 makes aquiring a mag of over ten rounds for a SACF rifle illegal so regardless of blocking, etc to buy a mag with a capacity of more than 10 is an offense.

    The law is not up to speed on the intricacies of guns so nothing is mentioned about "crossover" mags.

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Welcome to the forum.

    They are legal here. There is a huge amount of disinformation about these types of guns out there which people take at face value as they don't know enough to question what they're told. Plus the information they are getting is coming from a board source and one which seeks to ban them to be seen to be acting " virtuously".

    For example the name AR only applies to one type of rifle. The Armalite Rifle model 15, every Other rifle has its own name. For example mine is called a Remington VTR R-15.

    It's a semi automatic rifle meaning it fires one round/bullet per depress of the trigger. One and only one. If you I'll the trigger and keep it pulled the rifle will still only fire one round.

    Any other rifle which functions in any more/differently than semi auto is illegal to own in Ireland (and in a lot of other countries ,some of which may surprise you, like America).

    The license, and they must be licensed, takes 3 months to get and requires vetting from An Gardai which includes signing away our rights to medical privacy, warrantless entry to our homes, in person interviews and to provide good reason why we need (not want) that type of firearm.

    Currently there are approx. 167 in the country. That is all. Its also not just recently but over the last ten or more years meaning there has never been more than 200 in this country, ever. So not prolific in any sense if the word.

    Finally with regard to functionality, the M&P functions in the exact same manner as this gun

    Hope this helps somewhat.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45



    Does anyone have any official info on the case about capped magazines? Like verdict and judges' comments etc.

    Kind of;It came up in one of the Limerick DC cases, as to what is the standard capacity of these types of rifles. Both sides concluded it was ten rounds. It was a technical point and was just a point of agreement,but had no bearing on legislation or decisions.

    But as to where this came from globally that 10 rounds are somehow safer, and no one would ever practise a fast mag change!...

    California 1989 post Stockton shooting. In feel-good legislation, CA banned certain types of named semi-auto rifles and shotguns and limited the mag capacity. This then became a great idea nationally when the idiot, Clinton was in charge and his infamous "crime control bill", did nothing to prevent gun crimes or shootings, but gave the US a decade of "sporterized" semi-autos, and 10-shot mags. Say what you want about "Dubya" Bush, but at least he had the good sense to dump this nonsense that Clinton and his Pa, George Snr had birthed. Much to the annoyance of the anti-gun Karens.

    However, this nonsense of 10 rounds stuck in a few states and like the more unpleasant things of American culture, it made its way across to Europe, and into Politicians' and legislators' heads via the education by Hollywood on all things firearms.

    Lesson...Do ever not believe that American firearms laws and trends don't influence us all, somehow, pro and anti over here.




    Also, just another thing to consider about how some carbines use Glock magazines, thus making them “loading devices for long CF SA firearms”. Hence capping Glock and other similar mags at 10, but effectively bans them if you go off the magazine body cut off. By that I mean 10-round Glock magazines can fit more than 10 rounds if you disassemble them, making them no different than a 33-round mag pinned to 10.

    Glock 17 is a 17-round mag from the factory[Hence the name]. So legally and like most 9mm pistols in the EU, the legislation was written to save the EU a massive headache of having to ban and recompensate millions of pistol shooters with 10-round mags. Where they screwed up was in the fact that some pistols like the Glock, its mags are compatible with some carbine designs out there. So the carbines could accept 20-round pistol mags. [A point I made to the DOJ when meeting them as a FUNI rep four years ago, and they could not get their head around this concept of interchangeable pistol/rifle mag].

    Just buy a ten-round Glock mag, because if you were to cut the body of a std 17 mag, it won't fit in the mag well. Better said it will fit but will be so low that the slide won't pick up any rounds off the mag.

    How to use both 20 and 10 rounds if you have a Glock mag compatible carbine and pistol here? Best advice from the EU, as having in your possession includes your address. Leave the 17-rounders,if you can, at the range in storage and check them out when you want to run the pistol, and check them back in again when you run the carbine. That way you are never in possession of them with a CAT B firearm,that magically turns into a CAT A prohibited under the EU directive and Irish law...

    Messy and DAF but that's what happens when you have the unknowing making laws on firearms.




    It's utterly ironic that when Colt first advertised these types of rifles to the public in the 1970s. They came as standard with a 20-round mag.


    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    I believe someone mentioned something about a 22lr mag being pinned at 10 in a previous post and the person who did it was found guilty of being in possession of a restricted firearm. That’s just the gist of it but the point that some people took from it was if the magazine body was able to fit more than 10 it was restricted. I personally don’t agree with this “magazine body capacity” cut off for a number of reasons, which I’m not going to detail in this post. But let’s also remember that Sig Sauer P226 magazines and Glock 17 magazines can be used in 9mm carbines and are hence capped at 10 rounds. If you go off the “magazine body capacity” rule, you’d have to cut said magazines in half, thus making them incompatible with pistols. So either this “magazine body capacity” cut off is wrong and you can own SA CF mags that have been modified prior to import or a number of people on this forum are in possession of illegal magazines. So to make a long story short, that’s why I’m looking for the aforementioned court case or legal ruling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    The court case/ruling I was referring to was in relation to 22lr mags that had been pinned at 10. I could be wrong but I think you mentioned it in another thread, so either that ruling exists or there is no mag body restriction. An agreement in a civil case doesn’t hold any weight.

    Yep I 100% agree Grizz. Currently in Canada and Trudeau’s legislation failed miserably as well as the mag ban after the Ecole Polytechnique shooting. Two people were shot dead about 100m from my hotel a few days ago with illegal handguns and magazines no doubt, but don’t tell Trudeau that.

    Ha, surely you’re joking about compensation for pistol mags. What about the banned rifle mags? Former minister Fitzgerald was going to ban SA CF outright without compensation until someone pulled a Saul Goodman and reminded her that the constitution exists.


    Big no no for those Glock mags. The only place you can own them is up North. Otherwise you’re in possession of a banned loading device, irrespective of being at the range.

    But ultimately, where are you getting the notion that you can’t own restricted capacity CF SA magazines? And where are you getting the “magazine body cut off” from?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    I mentioned in another thread about two cases but they were not review cases taken by the applicant they were criminal cases taken by AGS/the state.

    It was district court afaik so not a court of record but even if they were both were found to be in breach of the conditions of their licenses.

    The mag capacity was settled for pistols with so 391/2015 but not such "clarity" has ever been provided for rifles. Unlike the issue with centrefires, the EU ruling, and subsequent SI which makes even buying mags with more than 10 an offense the working "rule" with rimfires is only capable of holding ten. That leaves it open to interpretation but in one of the cases above the lad did not plug his mag instead opting to load ten which was never going to fly. It may take a court case to settle this like the pistols.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    Oh yeah, well if your man had a restricted magazine in his rifle then that’s pretty cut and dry. But it’s the other case I’m interested in and the ruling, like was the magazine only temporarily capped etc. The issue is to what extent does capability go, like a normal 15/22 mag can hold more if you use a kit. https://magload.co.uk/product/sw-15-22-7-mag-extension/

    So where do they draw the line? Impossible to say without the ruling.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    I cannot find the details. I wrote about it before but cannot find the details and it's not coming to mind without checking.

    If I find it I'll post the details.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Ha, surely you’re joking about compensation for pistol mags. What about the banned rifle mags? Former minister Fitzgerald was going to ban SA CF outright without compensation until someone pulled a Saul Goodman and reminded her that the constitution exists.

    I'm talking under the EU directive,not Irish law.As we know what EU lick arses we have in the Dail that leave all the big legislation to the grownups in Brussels to decide for them and then add their little bit of sht in "gold plating " it to Irish standards. Then use the "Sorry lads its "law" from Brussels,nuthin we can do about it!Oh here's our little added-on kick in the balls for you too!" And it was factually pointed out to Brussels that it would cost billions to ban and compensate high cap mags and SACF rifles across the Union, that's if numerous Union member states didn't tell Brussels to PFO for themselves, particularly the East bloc states .

    The supreme court...Seriously??? Did you miss the failed court cases Poland and the Czech Republic took to the EUCHR on this topic and were told",its a privilege to own a licensed firearm in the EU, that YOU can pay for, YOU can jump through all the hoops and loops to own, and YOU can pay for all the rest.But the State considers it NOT YOUR PROPERTY, and therefore contrary to Article 7 of the EU Charter of Human rights on property, you are entitled to ZIP!, NADA!, NOTHING! in compensation from the respective states in relation to firearms confiscation. Despite a former EU member, setting a precedent,twice in a chaotic buyback of its subject's guns!"

    The only reason she didn't make that move is that Brussels didn't ban them,and like the little swots the Irish govt must be in the EU class, she wouldn't do anything to upset the teachers there. So good luck trying to prove a few millions later in the SC that such a "right" as private property exists anymore in the EU Soviet.


    Big no-no for those Glock mags. The only place you can own them is up North. Otherwise, you’re in possession of a banned loading device, irrespective of being at the range.

    READ the EU directive! It states quite clearly what is considered "possession" of these!!! Clearly states that they consider possession to be if you have them AND a compatible carbine at your home address/workplace etc.So if you keep either unit sepearte from the other it is not considered "possession" under the directive.And as Ireland simply adapted all this en masse without discussing the nuances or considering such situations [as per usual!].The directive legislation applies in the Irish case as there is no specific law to say otherwise. But Hey! I guess all the very expensive EU lawyers and firearms lawyers employed by FUN/FACE/etc, in Germany,Austria etc got it all wrong on this interpretation...

    But ultimately, where are you getting the notion that you can’t own restricted capacity CF SA magazines? And where are you getting the “magazine body cut off” from?

    Accepted EU parliament fudge on this problem,as they had to give a definition of a magazine[they didn't] and what part they considered the magazine to be? And they had to address this due to numerous mag makers wanting to know where they stood,or could import.

    It'scompliant is that it can physically only hold ten/20 rounds! Putting in blocks, tacking it, welding it all the rest ..No good!! To be compliant it must physically be only able to hold 10/20 rounds nowadays...End of!!! And it states quite clearly too in the Irish legislation that was foisted on us in 2018 that such mags were now prohibited.So going by all that if you happen to be;

    [1] The only person in Ireland with a Glock 17 and a 9mm carbine with a Glock compatible magazine capacity. Or similar compatible systems. It's a moot and academic problem.

    [2]If by some miracle PCC takes off in the Republic,it will become relevant then and is made moot again by the carbine being classified as a SACFR,so still subject to the 10-round mag capacity anyway, as there will be hardly any more Glock17 licenses issued. So why will you be buying 20 round mag for it in the 1st place?

    The " Cut magazine body" is simply THE only legal way you could use a mag for a specific gun that is a rare model that doesn't have commercially made mags for it.IE a Bretta BM59, STG 43/44, Semi auto Sten copy/MP40 copy etc. There is no trouble adding on an inert bit of metal /plastic/etc to give it an authentic look, so long as it is not able to hold rounds. That's your choice, or have a CAT A Prohibited firearm the moment you put a high cap mag in the gun.

     The issue is to what extent capability go, like a normal 15/22 mag can hold more if you use a kit. https://magload.co.uk/product/sw-15-22-7-mag-extension/

    Simple enough, they SHOULD BE illegal under ROI law in the above link,and compatible systems for SARs in the EU.As they increase the mag capacity above the permitted limit. But, because of their de-mountability and they are not part of the original high cap mag body, they have created another legal grey area that the EU was warned bout and fudged on. But in reality, you don't gain much with them in SACFR,as they only give you another 3 +/-,and on pistols give you in Glock's case another 3 shots to bring you up to a legal 20.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    I'm talking under the EU directive,not Irish law.As we know what EU lick arses we have in the Dail that leave all the big legislation to the grownups in Brussels to decide for them and then add their little bit of sht in "gold plating " it to Irish standards. Then use the "Sorry lads its "law" from Brussels,nuthin we can do about it!Oh here's our little added-on kick in the balls for you too!" And it was factually pointed out to Brussels that it would cost billions to ban and compensate high cap mags and SACF rifles across the Union, that's if numerous Union member states didn't tell Brussels to PFO for themselves, particularly the East bloc states .

    EU directive or not, it's blatantly unconstitutional to confiscate property without compensation.

    Did you miss the failed court cases Poland and the Czech Republic took to the EUCHR on this topic

    Didn't keep up with it, but the European declaration of human rights isn't worth the paper it's written on.

    SC that such a "right" as private property exists anymore

    The constitution enshrines the right to property Grizz.

    ARTICLE 43

    1     1° The State acknowledges that man, in virtue of his rational being, has the natural right, antecedent to positive law, to the private ownership of external goods.

    READ the EU directive! It states quite clearly what is considered "possession" of these!!! Clearly states that they consider possession to be if you have them AND a compatible carbine at your home address/workplace etc.So if you keep either unit sepearte from the other it is not considered "possession" under the directive.And as Ireland simply adapted all this en masse without discussing the nuances or considering such situations [as per usual!].The directive legislation applies in the Irish case as there is no specific law to say otherwise. But Hey! I guess all the very expensive EU lawyers and firearms lawyers employed by FUN/FACE/etc, in Germany,Austria etc got it all wrong on this interpretation...

    The EU directive isn't legally binding in Irish courts, what has any weight is that the legislature enacts, and they banned the possession of certain "loading devices". It's black and f*cking white, you can't have 17 round Glock magazines whether you own a Glock 17, Ruger PCC or a f*cking anti air gun.

    An issuing person shall revoke a firearm certificate in respect of a firearm classified in Category B of the Directive granted by the person where the holder of the certificate is found to be in possession of—

    (a) a loading device which can hold more than 20 rounds and is capable of being fitted to a centre-fire semi-automatic or repeating short firearm, or

    (b) a loading device which can hold more than 10 rounds and is capable of being fitted to a centre-fire semi-automatic or repeating long firearm.]

    Where's the confusing? It's simply not possible!

    Accepted EU parliament fudge on this problem,as they had to give a definition of a magazine[they didn't] and what part they considered the magazine to be? And they had to address this due to numerous mag makers wanting to know where they stood,or could import.

    Nor did they say what a "loading device" is, nor whether it is anything related to a magazine, tube, cylinder or anything else mentioned in Irish legislation.

    It'scompliant is that it can physically only hold ten/20 rounds! Putting in blocks, tacking it, welding it all the rest ..No good!! To be compliant it must physically be only able to hold 10/20 rounds nowadays...End of!!! And it states quite clearly too in the Irish legislation that was foisted on us in 2018 that such mags were now prohibited.So going by all that if you happen to be

    Where does it say that? It sure as sh*t doesn't mention it in Irish legislation, nor does it say it in EU directives. So Grizz, where does it say your permanently modifies magazines are illegal?


    There is no trouble adding on an inert bit of metal /plastic/etc to give it an authentic look, so long as it is not able to hold rounds.

    But filling up a 30 round magazine with molten aluminium to permanently reduce the capacity to 10, is a no no? What if you chop the same magazine in half, put in a new baseplate and spring so the capacity is 10, but then you glue the cut off part on the bottom? Your logic is non sensicle.

    But Grizz you're overlooking one major part of the directive. You can own a coupled magazine which has a capacity of 20 rounds and you can legally have that in your CF SA rifle. Why? Because the directive states  

    long firearms which allow the firing of more than 11 rounds without reloading, if: (i) a loading device with a capacity exceeding 10 rounds is part of that firearm; or (ii) a detachable loading device with a capacity exceeding 10 rounds is inserted into it

    And this clearly indicates functionality, and that is the only metric in the directive. So tell me Grizz, how can a rifle with a pinned 30 round magazine fire 12 or more rounds without reloading? Detachable loading devices aren't banned, so long ad they don't allow a CF SA rifle to fire more than 11 rounds without reloading. So Grizz, where oh where are you getting your "magazine body" rule from?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    EU directive or not, it's blatantly unconstitutional to confiscate property without compensation.

    Take it up with the eUCHR and the SC...Did you win the Euro millions to prove these understandable natural rights,but never proven in a court of law here?

    Didn't keep up with it, but the European declaration of human rights isn't worth the paper it's written on.

    Kind of important,that whole case for everyone not, just gunowners,as it shows the EU indeed does not give a fig about personal property we own and they don't like.




    The constitution enshrines the right to property Grizz.

    ARTICLE 43

    1     1° The State acknowledges that man, in virtue of his rational being, has the natural right, antecedent to positive law, to the private ownership of external goods.


    "Save in accordance with the law!" Is tacked onto everything that those natural rights might involve. Reading the Irish constitution properly,will show how much a tenuous document on natural rights it actually is.And it has been violated enough times too.

    Don't want you to have a certain type of firearm?Make a law, that will get about 10 mins Dail time debate these days and your "property" is gone A EU law doesn't suit? [VAT on car imports] Change the law to it becoming a tax, despite it being blatantly illegalbut don't worry about some millionare challenging you in Govt over the last 30 years now either...


    ...The EU directive isn't legally binding in Irish courts,

    Can I have some of whatever you are taking/smoking there???

    what has any weight is that the legislature enacts, and they banned the possession of certain "loading devices". It's black and f*cking white, you can't have 17 round Glock magazines whether you own a Glock 17, Ruger PCC or a f*cking anti air gun.

    READ this AGAIN!!!

    An issuing person shall revoke a firearm certificate in respect of a firearm classified in Category B of the Directive granted by the person where the holder of the certificate is found to be in possession of—

    (a) a loading device which can hold more than 20 rounds and is capable of being fitted to a centre-fire semi-automatic or repeating short firearm, or IE a Pistol

    (b) a loading device which can hold more than 10 rounds and is capable of being fitted to a centre-fire semi-automatic or repeating long firearm. IE ANY type of Rifle or shotgun

    Operative MORE THAN in both cases!!! IOW they are following the directive EXACTLY in this case!!!


    But Grizz you're overlooking one major part of the directive. You can own a coupled magazine which has a capacity of 20 rounds and you can legally have that in your CF SA rifle. Why? Because the directive states 

    long firearms which allow the firing of more than 11 rounds without reloading if: (i) a loading device with a capacity exceeding 10 rounds is part of that firearm; or (ii) a detachable loading device with a capacity exceeding 10 rounds is inserted into it

    You can have 100 rounds in a starfish configuration of 10 rounds too. The simple fact is that they are all separate magazines, NOT physically connected in one single box. That's why.

    The whole purpose is to make us all safer and possibly able to rush a mass shooter within the 2 seconds anyone can do a mag change in...well that's their fantasy!!!🙄.The simple fact is you can't have over 10 or 20 rounds in one single container in your gun, under both Irish law and EU Directive.


    But filling up a 30-round magazine with molten aluminium to permanently reduce the capacity to 10, is a no-no?

    100% correct! As they might say what's to stop you from emptying out the aluminium again?I know about as likely to happen as you would warp the mag body, but this is the kind of logic you are dealing with people who drew up this nonsense!

    What if you chop the same magazine in half, put in a new baseplate and spring so the capacity is 10, but then you glue the cut off part on the bottom? Your logic is non sensicle.

    It's not MY logic 1st off!!! It's what these Fukwitted politicians and legislators came up with in Brussels as the solution to the stinking shtpile of their own making.😡And Yes your above example is 100% legal as it is now a 10-round mag capable of only holding physically 10 rounds.


    Let me put it as clearly as I can. It is the physical capacity to hold in either case10 or 20 rounds that is the decisive factor here whether you are legal or illegal!!

    Lookit!! Do you not think that at this stage in the game across the EU people with much better legal qualifications in both EU and firearms law in their respective countries and in Brussels would have found a way of loopholing this??? No one has!!! Why do you think you can not buy any more 20-rounders for rifles or 33-rounders for pistols anywhere in the EU anymore, bar without a ton of paperwork and govt approval??? Where is what you are saying true, it would make life 1000% easier for every dealer in Germany, Belgium, etc to simply block every mag permanently to 10 rounds by an approved method?

    That was another problem...Brussels couldn't decide on an EU-wide-approved method to block these mags permanently.So they decided the next thing was to ban the container holding more than the prescribed round count!!!

    Do you think Hera arms, Schmeisser, and Oberland arms just decided for Yuks to produce 10-round polymer mags with only a 10-round capacity and a blind part to make it look like a 20-rounder when they were happily making and selling 20 rounders up to this ban with no problems??Why is P Mag not selling 20-rounders in the EU either?Esp in countries that have ITAR exemptions?IE Germany and the UK?

    I had personal experience of this with my mini 14 too before importing it.It came with a 20 round mag, but the dealer said he couldn't ship it as it was CAT A mag,and impossible to even ship legally within the EU nowadays.It's a holy mess created by Brussels and Berlin

    It is what it is!!! Its there in the legislation, EU and national we can argue how many angels dance on a head of a pin, and as far as I'm concerned its just arguing the toss now. If you want to go and stick a 10,20,50,100 round mag in your rifle go ahead, just accept the consequences. I've been involved with this sht storm on the EU level for at least over 5 years now and I'm done with it.

    Do what you all want. Good luck!!!

    Grizzly

    Post edited by Grizzly 45 on

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭smmember20


    If you are interested in a reliable source of mags for your M&P 15 try this site, they ship for a flat 20€, I find the magpul 10 shot mags very reliable I shoot a Reminton R-15. PS no farting around with import license they ship direct and it is quite lawful for you to import directly.

    https://www.sportshooter.de/de/magpul_pmag_10-59831.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Question for you as an R15 user with P mags? Do you find them a loose[ish] fit in the mag well and that they sometimes don't engage the last round bolt hold open ?Or that if you hit the side or base of the mag when it is in the well and it will cause the bolt carrier to jump the bolt hold open catch to go into battery? I find them a very loose fit in the R25 and I've had this problem since I started using the GEN3 P mags...never had this with the Gen 2 or Oberland Arms 20 rounders when such was legal here.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭smmember20


    No issues at all, the R25 is that .308? Mine is .223 and I have no issues at all, great source is sportshooter.de they only charge 20€flat rate for shipping and mags generally in with in 10 days



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Yeah, the R25 is the 308 version. Basically, the Remington R15/R25 are DPMS spec rifles in civilian Remington hunting cammo and furniture.

    Well,we shop at the same store too.😀.Good to know Re the mag situation with the 223. I'm putting this down to a 308 Magpul thing, or that the mags are still pretty new, as now one of them is now activating the bolt hold open after the last shot 75% of the time.

    Have to say tho the Mag puls are sloppy tolerances in the R25 mag well. There is about 4mm of left/right movement when the mag is inserted, but seeing that Mpul is a universal fitting mag for all AR10 lowers,it probably has to have this.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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