RTÉ journo given 15months for sexually assaulting woman as she slept

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393801#Comment_119393801

All of her friends.

Because on the basis of probabilities, friends are not going to turn around and go 'you dumb slut you asked for it'.

That's not what friends generally tend to do. I don't believe that is what happened. Of course I could be wrong.

Like I said I imagine the breakdown in the relationships were far more nuanced.

If you focus on the 2 extreme sides of the debate, you are not going to get the quality you have asked for.

Best maybe to return to the OPs question.

Was the sentence fair. I think it was quite harsh for reasons I have already outlined, how about you?

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393801#Comment_119393801

I'm sure o leidin has his views on why she made the accusations of sexual assault against him as he will be the one who will be scapegoated here

tooka

He is guilty of touching her breast without her consent.

how did this even make the courts.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392164#Comment_119392164

Yes. Only if it kills a mime though.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392227#Comment_119392227

Send us a picture of your arse and we'll confirm.

osarusan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393475#Comment_119393475

That's not what you originally said though - you said was that she could change her mind about it afterwards.

Anybody who told police that they had consented at the time but later regretted it. so now it's rape, would be told that no crime had been committed.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393875#Comment_119393875

He is guilty of sexual assault.

Dont downplay what he did. It’s not a good look. He mounted a woman and grabbed her breasts while she slept.

Textbook sexual assault. That’s how it made it to the courts.

titan18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393475#Comment_119393475

Basically makes guilty until proven innocent in court.

Also, this part is a bit scary to an extent

The bill would also include the provision that self-induced intoxication would not be a defence to a charge of rape in relation to an accused's capacity to understand if he did have consent.

Like, to me, sober person sleeping with a drunk person who can't consent, fair game there that's rape/sexual assault.

Two drunk people though, if the logic is someone drunk doesn't have the capacity to consent, then is it rape by the male and sexual assault by the female, or just who gets to the station first? Or is that all the blame goes on men by default as needing to have all the agency in the situation.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393946#Comment_119393946

I think you're only getting half the point. If a woman or a man went to the Gardaí and accused someone of rape, but indicated they'd given some form of consent.. how far would that go as things stand? Nowhere.

Take the current case in this thread, there was no intercourse. But suppose there had been and the woman (in this case) goes to the Gardaí and says she was raped. The fella says he got consent, she says she didn't give consent. Two people, no witnesses. Under this proposed legislation, the benefit of the doubt is to be given to the accuser on balance.

You must surely see what's wrong with that.

anglesorangles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393548#Comment_119393548

He commited a crime. So thats your take from this , when you commit a crime do not be honest. Nice one.

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394063#Comment_119394063

I would literally do anything to avoid a custodial sentence, now there is some honesty! I think most people would if given the choice.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394089#Comment_119394089

Me too, I've found not committing crimes a lot easier than trying to keep up with my lies.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393970#Comment_119393970

It obviously wasn't all about the grabbing of her breasts as he would've had a playful encounter with her breasts earlier I presume

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394107#Comment_119394107

Well I never said he should have committed the crime nor gave any moral judgement of right or wrong. I am saying that if I had found myself in his situation I would have lied. I'll add that in my opinion the sentence is worse than the crime. Someone like him or me me in prison, expect constant intimidation and maybe an assault at a minimum for over a year and then his outside life and career are destroyed too.

anglesorangles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394089#Comment_119394089

Well fair ball for being honest. Although I wouldnt sexually assault someone so id avoid it that way. Best of luck in your future endeavours.

anglesorangles

There is no conversation worth having around whether he did it or was it sexual assault. It 100% categorically was, thats what i stated in the post and thats what anyone with any iota of sense knows. The discussion was supposed to be around the severity of the punishment. I think a custodial sentence was necessary but possibly 6months in this case.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393486#Comment_119393486

This guy gets it

Screenshot_20220727-135906_Twitter.jpg

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393784#Comment_119393784

Like I said, not all of us are happy and willing to partake in a charade which is completely stacked against men , so called " consent classes " are all about instilling a basic principlal that when it comes to sexual interaction, the male is always a potential predator and the female is always potentially a victim , new law coming before cabinet this week ( discussed on radio earlier ) whereby a guy will need to prove consent was given ,effectively what this will mean is that should a woman make a complaint, the guy will be guilty until presumed innocent

tooka

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394063#Comment_119394063

And should have got a fine, nothing more maybe a couple hundred for charity

I still don’t get what’s going on here, they had a sexual encounter , and he woke her up for a shag and she said no and he said ok

strange times

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394244#Comment_119394244

I still don’t get what’s going on here

She said no, he sexually assaulted her in her sleep, hope that clears it up.

anglesorangles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394244#Comment_119394244

Yeah either way a criminal conviction had to happen. She woke up while he was on top of her touching her tits. Can you not read? Possibly the lack of being able to read is why you dont get whats going on?

SEPT 23 1989

so glad I am happily married

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394263#Comment_119394263

That's not what happened.

What he did was sexual assault but there is no need to make it worse than what it was. Forcing yourself on someone after they said no is a lot worse than what he did.

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394142#Comment_119394142

Thanks dude, I'll do my best

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393825#Comment_119393825

All her friends having that attitude is unlikely alright. Plenty of her friends having that attitude is pretty likely, given the attitudes represented in this thread.

I never bother with discussions about sentence lengths. I don't see much consistency in sentences. I don't know what they're supposed to aceve and I don't know how length of sentence correlates with the desired outcome.

Sentences seem to be tokenistic rather than targeted or strategic to achieve an outcome. I've no idea if the sentence was appropriate because I'm not sure exactly what it's supposed to achieve.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393970#Comment_119393970

That and the fact he admitted it to Gardai assuming not realising that it was against the law. Then not pleading guilty is bizarre - I wonder what advice he was given but likely he was still in denial.

Theres the law and there’s personal norms of one night stands- the law trumps personal norms - whether people “think” it’s right or not to be convicted of sexual assault in this case, matters not a damn- the law is very clear on sleeping and consent- the girl pressed charges for whatever reason she did so - the outcome is what we have now. In addition, prior to this “act” she withdrew consent for sex- so there was no margin for error here if you go strictly by the law- none at all.

Just because 1000s of people may have experienced “wake up sex” initiation in a one night stand situation, doesn’t mean that a, the person welcomed it, b, didn’t feel violated or threatened by it and c, may have considered taking it legal, but ultimately decided against doing so. Indeed many may well have also welcomed it, and I’d say many do- but the law is there to protect those who view that situation differently

Its certainly a rare enough set of circumstances that were seen here in the legal public domain but it’s likely a much more common occurrence in reality than the legal cases numbers reflect.

It reminds me of a friend many years ago- he took a girl back to his college apartment- they engaged in sex and all was going fine but then she started saying things like “don’t hurt me don’t hurt me” and other odd behaviour and strange things- I don’t believe he had any intention of hurting the girl and I believe his account of the story even all these years later but the experience left him gobsmacked and quite wary around future encounters - with some people you just don’t know how they might react in a one night stand situation with a stranger ( even if it was a friend of a friend) - caution and consent .

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393721#Comment_119393721

I didn't say you did. I said there're posters who did say that. Not sure why you thought I was referring explicitly to you.

You seem to have missed the point about the discussion around aspects of the case as opposed to discussing whether sexual contact with a sleeping person is wrong or not.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394265#Comment_119394265

This isn't a nanny state yet...there is no onus/requirement on a individual to do a recourse to the law after voluntary accepting and taking part in a ONS just because they were having regrets after it..

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394244#Comment_119394244

If only it happened that way, then there wouldn't be a story, a victim or a guy in prison.

He initiated sex with a sleeping person. That's the issue. He didn't wake her up and then initiate sex he did it in the opposite order, that's why it's sexual assault. How did you get this far into the chat and get that part in reverse order?

cal naughton

I wonder was this incident a Trigger event for the lady. Maybe something traumatic happened in her youth and this brought it all back. It sounds like that from reading the victim statement.