RTÉ journo given 15months for sexually assaulting woman as she slept

RobbieTheRobber

So far in a thread on sexual assault we have the usual types of posters playing what about bingo.

Topics that have nothing to do with sexual assualt but have been brought in.

Lisa Smith

Anti immigrant chat.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393300#Comment_119393300

The risk is there no matter what, of course, but the likelihood of two partners, having built up an understanding and trust over a number of years, taking a case compared to two randomers is much lower.

I don’t judge what two people in a relationship would do in their bedrooms, but it doesn’t mean that this guy can have a free-for-all just because it’s alright among two partners in someone else’s house.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393332#Comment_119393332

You would have to be fairly specific and even at that the law may not see it that way.

But the reality is couples are not having that conversation it's just not realistic.

What happens in reality is the other person responds favourably or tells you fúck off back to sleep and that's the end of it.

But the jist of the OPs point is correct even if unlikely, if you touch your partner while they are asleep that is sexual assault according to our laws, it's crystal clear, if not the most crystal of clear of laws surrounding consent.

It's extremely rare a case like this would get to court. It's why there is 3 threads on it.

But it is a discussion worth having, now the extremes of she is a mental ill bítch to he is a serial predator is nonsense, the debate lies firmly in-between.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119392524#Comment_119392524

Water off a ducks back

Look if some guys willingly sign up to a new deal which is ridiculously lob sided in terms of balance ( consent places all responsibilities on the guy in any encounter) that's their choice ,personally I would not wish to see either my son or a friend hauled off to the clink in the name of ideological purity

Not everyone however is willing to play ball with this new WOKE paradigm shift so i say deny everything and do not send texts, being a sacrificial lamb is a mugs game, for the zealous, this guy will still be condemned when he leaves prison

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393398#Comment_119393398

The risk? The law is clear.

What you are talking about is the risk that you will be reported for sexual assault - that's very different, where your partner will in all likely hood sprain your hand and tell you do one, some one you don't know may report you. But even that is extremely rare.

In both situations it is very much sexual assault. You cannot consent when you are asleep.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393433#Comment_119393433

I’ve been making this point throughout so I think we agree here.

Just you get the usual suspects talking about contracts with their wives pretending to not know the difference.

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393378#Comment_119393378

Well of course, but what I'm saying is that it would take a lot more nerve to do so if the girl knows that it was her who seduced him. What I'm also saying is that - usually - no one is completely without blame when rape claims are made. Even if it's a false claim, the guy must have made some mistake along the way. It could be that he kicked her out in the morning (as he would be entitled to do), spoke rudely to her, or ignored her. Now if someone already regrets the night before, that's really going to rub it in. So although the guy mightn't have raped the girl, claiming rape might be the only way for her to get back at him.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393431#Comment_119393431

Well then teach them not to grope sleeping women who already said no, it's not the psychological minefield you're portraying it to be.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393284#Comment_119393284

I don't believe so and the devil would be in the detail, but as reported:

"The bill would change the current situation where a man is not guilty of rape if he believed that he had the consent of a woman.

Under the new proposals, the accused's defence that he believed she was consenting has to be objectively reasonable."

As things stand, the benefit of the doubt (that can inevitably arise in such cases) is given to the accused party. As reported, the benefit of the doubt will now be given to the accuser.

That's a very big and fundamental change. It's a potential charter for mostly women to deny they gave consent and have their partners prosecuted & convicted of rape.

Please explain how it could be otherwise. In such a case, presumably the judge & jury would hear evidence from both sides but when push comes to shove, the benefit of the doubt will now be given to the accuser.

This is poor proposed legislation and should be resisted by any right thinking person.

raclle

There seems to be a consensus that waking someone up for sex is wrong now? Would morning sex not fall into this category too since they're just after waking up and not in their right frame of mind. I mean where does it stop?

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393460#Comment_119393460

Sure but thats just one detail in this story, as I said earlier, he should have shown her the door once she began having buyers remorse, she was at best a flake ,unfortunately she was much worse

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393344#Comment_119393344

But would you also bother to teach them not to initiate sex with someone who is asleep and can't consent or is that not an important thing to learn from this example?

Motivator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393291#Comment_119393291

sounds like the actions of a closet serial killer in my opinion. What weirdo carries on like that?

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393411#Comment_119393411

A relationship is the most likely place for that discussion to happen at all. Much less lilely to happen in an ONS situation but not impossible. But why is it so unlikely between adults in a relationship? How do couples figure out they're into anything beyond vanilla sex? They talk about it.

This is beginning to sound like peoppe who can't discuss sex with the very person they're having sex with. Sounds childish TBH.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393446#Comment_119393446

Well that is clearly nonsense, but so is the contention that no way this couldn't happen between partners.

You cannot consent when you are asleep, whether it is a one night stand or ye are married 50 years.

The guy in the case was 100% wrong and she was 100% the victim, he committed sexual assault.

Now if I were to do the exact same to my partner, it would be exactly the same crime.

So the nuance here is not really the crime itself, but the reporting of the crime. He got for want of a better word 'unlucky'. Not as unlucky as her obviously - she is still very much the victim in this, but separately judging it on the facts and merits of the case I am surprised he received a custodial sentence.

The judge seems to have second guessed her own judgement.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393513#Comment_119393513

You have gone off on a nonsensical tangent, there is nothing purporting to doggy style and consent in our laws.

The law is crystal clear, you cannot consent when you are asleep.

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393498#Comment_119393498

I'd like to see you try and explain exactly what is weird about it? Seems like you're just stereotyping what you see in movies and trying to craft it into some sort of insult. You can't just claim that any sort of unorthodox thinking is indicative of someone being a serial killer. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to have sex with lots of women if that's what you've issue with. It's simply a clever method of making sure that you're far less likely to be accused of rape.

joseywhales

Rightly or wrongly, he would not have been convicted if he had just denied the event took place right? I mean for her to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he assaulted her while asleep would have been impossible. So his honesty has been detrimental here. It just reminds me that in all things involving police and the law, offer no information ever, unless legally compelled to do so.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393526#Comment_119393526

OK well, there we have it. I'll take your word for it that that's what the law says.

What's the need for any more discussion on the matter then? The guy did it, he admitted it, was sentenced and that's it.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393550#Comment_119393550

Absolutely, he was 100% guilty under the law, there was absolute no wriggle room for an acquittal.

I don't think that is the end of it though. I'd be shocked if they don't lodge an appeal by deadline Friday.

As for the need of discussing the matter, I am, indepthly

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393548#Comment_119393548

His doing the act was the detrimental part. Maybe he could have lied his way out of it. That's hardly a prescription for dealing with crimes in the country. Just lie and say it didn't happen.

Fair play to the guy for telling the truth. He let himself down with his behaviour, not be telling truth about it.

John Doe1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393141#Comment_119393141

Men are more likely to be physically attacked.

Men commit suicide at a much higher rate

More likely to die alone

Less chance of gaining custody of children

Less likely to attend college

More likely to be homeless

More likely to die younger

More likely to be addicted to drugs/alcohol

Work in more dangerous/less desirable jobs (i.e Logger, bin man)

More likely to go to prison

More likely to die in war

Viewed in mainstream media as an evil oppressor

Aye, its great being a man..........

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393562#Comment_119393562

Discussing the matter is fine. There are posters who claim he did nothing wrong or the main thing he did wrong was admit the truth. That's the discussion I'm questioning.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393526#Comment_119393526

The way it looks is she is troubled with what happened on the night/morning and is affecting her enormously and she's bringing him down with her as well and the law is her only weapon to cause his downfall

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393602#Comment_119393602

He certainly did something wrong, he broke the law, he sexually assaulted that lady.

As for the truth I don't think he ever admitted to groping her, just kissing her.

Personally I think he should be given "credit" for being open in his interviews.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393645#Comment_119393645

Reading the victim impact statement it certainly had an effect on her.

But it appeared to have snowballed and not all that can be placed on the head of the perpetrator IMHO.

She talks about her friends blaming her, I don't believe for a second that happened and I imagine the evolution and the deterioration of her friendships and her mental health were far more nuanced.

It's up to the judge to temper that when deciding on an appropriate punishment.

kerryjack

I would wonder would they many of us be about if the ould lad didn't put the hand over and try and get her lossened up a bit.

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393602#Comment_119393602

Don't think I said the main thing he did wrong was admit the truth, that appears to be your invention.

I said that if he denied, he probably would not have been convicted.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393013#Comment_119393013

You are wilfully ignoring the most important part of all this, and that was she was asleep when he climbed on top of her and started groping her.

It doesn't matter what went on earlier in the evening. She couldn't consent while asleep, and he committed a sexual assault on a sleeping women.

Her gender doesn't matter either, it would be exactly the same if it was a same sex couple.

Your post is seriously disturbing and is proof how badly lessons in consent are needed for young people so they do not take after their parents, if this is their parent's attitude.

Maybe the goal should be to teach your children how NOT to commit a sexual assault, rather then lie, lie and deny, after the damage is done.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119393683#Comment_119393683

Why is it not believable that some of her friends blamed her? Lol at the posts in this thread. Lots of people assume she's a crazy bitch, it's her fault, the guy is the victim whose only crime is being gullible and so on.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if some of her friends had the same attitudes.