Fines for speeding, phone use, no belts set to double

harmless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388002#Comment_119388002

But is it a cash cow? I always figured that enforcement(what little there is) was very expensive and cost far more than the small fines. Would these increased fines actually make fining motorists profitable? Does anyone know how to calculate this to see which is true.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388605#Comment_119388605

I am not a speeder mostly watch my speed and limits of the road.

So you never speed?

I would class myself as a safe driver. I have been done a fair few times speeding.

But I thought you weren't a speeder???

Lets be honest in most modern cars you dont notice the different from doing 120 kph or 130kph unless you keep an eye on indicator (which I do mostly) and always drop back down under limit.

So you are not aware of your speed and are unable to maintain a constant speed on a motorway for any reasonable distance? But you said that you were a safe driver???

But the speed limits are ridiculous. The naas road is 100 kph until you get to the ball in Naas then it goes up to 120kph (both 3 lanes)

There are pedestrians, cyclists, people with animals and other road users who are not sitting in a car. 100km/h is plenty fast for that road before you look at the large volumes that use the road daily, many of whom are not following basic principals of driving such as keeping left!

Plus the points stay on your licence for 3 years which is a long time.. I have a big commute to work mostly motorway and always pass 2 speeding vans a day.. There a cash cow imo.

If you don't want the points to be on your licence for 3 years then don't be caught speeding! Simples!

Out of curiosity, how much does the cash cow take from you every day?

bad driving an inexperience cause's crashes and yes speeding to some extent but most crashes on the naas road which are a regular occurrence are from tail gating! I see it everyday.

So you admit that speeding causes incidents but are opposed to punishing drivers for it?

Stone Deaf 4evr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388582#Comment_119388582

pedestrian crossings are safe, on the assumption that the other road users are taking due care and attention, if someone is stopped at a junction, looking down at their phone, and misses their green light, they are more likely to proceed forwards carelessly and quickly if someone else in the queue beeps their horn.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388686#Comment_119388686

Cars are mostly safe unless driven by an idiot. Is there a point to your comment.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388605#Comment_119388605

what's 'a fair few times'? people might say 'few' if it had been 3 or 4 times; to qualify it as 'a fair few times' would suggest more.

people seem to find it a mental burden to be expected to know how fast they're going on a motorway (or anywhere else). i worry about these people on the road. they have to worry about what gear they're in too, which way the steering wheel is pointed, where their feet are, their mirrors... so much to have to concentrate on.

Reducing speed limits and doubling fines are the kind of nanny state actions that we are accustomed to in Ireland.

And then we end up with road deaths increasing as the data shows.

What we really need to do is fix the problems areas that cause crashes and enforce the current limits. But that's hard work...

So fines and speed reductions it.

thinkabouit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388176#Comment_119388176

Ah no, do you wanna live in China or North Korea?

What difference does it make anyway to safety on the road if a car is insured or taxed?

Just have to educate the idiots better, easier said than done of course

magicbastarder

we end up with increasing road deaths partly because the road traffic law is not enforced; fines are immaterial if people know they won't be prosecuted.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388757#Comment_119388757

i believe china and north korea lock people up for political dissent, etc., or being the wrong religion. i am talking about fining people for driving without insurance etc.; there's a subtle but distinguishable difference.

a colleague of mine was fined €5 in germany for crossing at a red pedestrian light. the policeman (may have been a local traffic corps sort of lad) was carrying a credit card machine to levy the fine.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388757#Comment_119388757

Cost of things changes people behavior.

liamog

Just another useless measure that doesn't tackle the reason the fines are already ignored.

The government needs to understand that a fine is not a deterrent if enforcement is 0, I don't really care if I'm not paying a €100 fine or a €200 fine, either way I'm still getting away with not paying a fine. I'd rather see a €15 fine with enforcement that catches people once a week then we will see a real change in behavior.

benny79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388640#Comment_119388640

How do you work that out? Plus there meant to be in accident black spots.

Stone Deaf 4evr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388736#Comment_119388736

Aye, you made the point to use pedestrian crossings to avoid cycling around people using phones in traffic. I fail to see how that's any safer if said plentiful idiots are still looking at their phones. Driver behaviour needs to change, there's only so much that pedestrians or cyclist can do.

benny79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388668#Comment_119388668

You totally took up what I said wrong. Suppose there is always one! If you are on a straight road (motorway) for a very long time your speed will go up & down due to concentration. Touch wood I have never been in a crash or pulled over for speeding but have got done by the vans obviously over the limit mainly due to lack of concentration on my behalf on motorways.

hoodie6029

Increased fines are a start and will deter and wake up some people. Speed camera locations have been expanded too.

The fact that with modern cars with all their safety features that so many people are dying is shocking. I am sure that there are many factors to this but the amount of phone use, WhatsApp, video calls and who knows what else while driving, is endemic.

People are addicted to these devices and addicted being in constant communication. This is something that needs to tackled in a major way, not just some ads on TV.

When you don’t get a chance to brake, the collision is going to be so much worse. When you’re distracted and don’t get to brake or brake late, the effectiveness of all your safety features are reduced.

Hellrazer

They can put the fines up to anything they want but without enforcement its absolutely useless. What needs to happen is a zero tolerance approach to the more minor infractions and the major ones will become less. If people think they will be caught for minor stuff then it might make them sit up and think.

Headlight bulb gone - €60.00 fine. Failure to indicate - €60.00 fine etc - No more excuses for the minor stuff.

Only yesterday an idiot broke a red light and almost drove straight into the front of me. Best part of it - Garda car in the lane beside me sees everything and they do **** all despite me letting the window down and asking them were they going to act. They just drove on without a care in the world.

Maybe they werent "traffic" Garda!!!

Curious, some are saying this won't get to the root of the behaviour or stop people speeding.

What then should be done?

Afaik, the only way to eliminate it would be through physical design changes to roads i.e. make it physically impossible (chicanes, speed bumps etc) or psychologically improbable (lane narrowing etc).

benny79

Phones & people applying make up are a bigger problem imo plus you even see law enforcement on their phones while driving! I also think lack of experience as its very easy to get a licence in this country compared to other EU countries Although we are slowly getting better! But the answer isn't to jack up fines and points!

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388825#Comment_119388825

Incorrect. I made the point if there's a (busy) junction/crossing you don't like on your cycling route. You can dismount and bypass it on foot. Lateral thinking a safer route etc.

Signal Controlled Pedestrian crossing are statistically safer. They've done lots of studies on it.

My comment had nothing to do traffic in general.

One way of changing driver behavior is punitive penalties. But that only works if its enforced. Thus far enforcement poor. Then you got to consider if enforcement stats are even accurate considering the various scandal's.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388795#Comment_119388795

dunno how many times i've told the story here, but passing the local spar a few years ago, there was a grab truck with the livery of a well known builders merchant parked up on the footpath, all wheels on the footpath. there was a garda coming out of the spar at the time so i moseyed over, and mentioned this to him, and he was utterly disinterested till i said to him that the tyres were bald too; one was completely slick.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388862#Comment_119388862

Road design and engineering is certainly a big part of it.

What about Automatic cameras, take the human element out of it. Why do we have so few in Ireland. We don't take it seriously.

Strumms

Pointless, levels of enforcement are a joke. The quality of roads policing is a joke.

you’ll have these gobshîtes doing motorists for marginal offenses, going through on an amber as I’ve seen.

but rank bad dangerous driving as individual episodes and as a culture are not going to be tackled and stopped…

because of the lack of enthusiasm and enforcement.. much easier for Gardai to go shooting fish in a barrel with someone going 6 kmph over or going through on an amber.

Also…. If you want to make our roads safer look at ALL road users… one of the greatest epidemics of breaking of the road traffic act and informing a culture of dangerous roads and road usage is cyclists just cycling through red lights… pedestrians crossing, or trying and having to take evasive action and distracting motorists who DO have the right of way… but no enthusiasm and little to no enforcement…

Statistically by percentage cyclists must commit more breaches of the road traffic act, yet are not held to anything approaching the same standards as other roads users.

are cyclists the same danger as a car ? No but by informing and creating this culture of unsafe road usage while they have an almost exemption of interest on behalf of Gardai…

So increasing fines is a pointless exercise when the deterrent for bad driving and road usage, actually catching people done so badly.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388640#Comment_119388640

What's that got to do with anything? It's a convenient argument trotted out when people complain of them being "cash cows", but is a circular argument.

1. The government need to avoid the headline of cameras being revenue generators (for the state).
2. So the programme must operated at a loss to the government, to satisfy your argument. ie: we must pay GoSafe more than they take in.
3. GoSafe are therefore incentivised to catch as many people as possible, in order to guarantee themselves a lucrative contract next time around, but the taxpayer loses out.

If Go Safe operated only in areas where people have died, or even pro-rata on road types where deaths actually occur, the NET cost to the state would be far higher. I'd absolutely love to see stats on how many speeding penalty points drivers who caused serious accidents had already.

Operated by an Isle of Man based company with a less than stellar history with respect to employee conditions, and the below story doesn't fill me with confidence either. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30896665.html

Go Safe is owned by a consortium which comprises Spectra, a firm owned by Kerry businessman Xavier McAuliffe, and French company Egis, which own 42% each, as well as Australian traffic enforcement firm Redflex. A former chief executive of Redflex’s US subsidiary, Karen Finley, was sentenced to 30 months in prison and fined $2m (€1.73m) by a US federal court in 2016 for her role in a bribery scheme to win speed camera contracts in Chicago.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388945#Comment_119388945

Aside from your cliche-filled post which Is largely based on inaccuracies, are you seriously suggesting that driver behaviour will change therefore making the roads safer for all if cyclists are punished for breaking road traffic laws?

Furze99

Typical top down lazy approach by government. Easy to slap on extra fines and say you're doing something. When really what is needed is more visible boots on the ground.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388962#Comment_119388962

I’m interested in safer roads and therefore ALL road users being accountable for that, adding to that culture and all road users being sanctioned who break the rules :) be they cyclists, car drivers, van drivers, or truck drivers, whomever.

you think that is stupid ? Ok, you are entitled to that opinion. :)

You might want to find out what the word ‘cliché’ actually means.

If you believe what I have typed is ‘stupid’ … it really does highlight the problem as to why certain cyclists are complicit in attitude and actions as regards making our roads unsafe. Enabling it actually.

Hellrazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388945#Comment_119388945

You are 100% right - its ALL road users that should be sanctioned for breaking the so called "rules of the road" - cyclists should be fined for breaking red lights, cycling more than 2 abreast on narrow road - which is the norm out where I am and then they fail to move over or even move into a single line.

This thing of pedestrians just walking out in front of you (mainly teenage young lads who are basically indestructible and dont give a ****) does my head in. They`ll just stroll off a footpath even when they see you coming..If I hit one of them Im the one whos penalised for their stupidity.

E scooters etc should be regulated before there are serious deaths from one of these things.

And my biggest gripe - idiots who put "L" plates on wrong - you either have a "7" , a backwards "L" or some other weird 90 degree angle thing on the back window...If you cant put an L plate on right you shouldnt be driving a vehicle that could potentially kill someone - instant disqualification if you cant fit your L plate right!!!!

Gant21

They should have put €200 on mobile phone use.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388986#Comment_119388986

I’m interested in safer roads and therefore ALL road users being accountable for that, adding to that culture and all road users being sanctioned who break the rules :) be they cyclists, car drivers, van drivers, or truck drivers, whomever.

The proposed changes are due to the number of serious injuries and fatalities caused on the roads. How many of these are by cyclists. It is a completely bizarre to bring cyclist behaviour when discussing this.

you think that is stupid ? Ok, you are entitled to that opinion. :)

I actually deleted that particular comment before or as you were posting but yes, I think it is a completely stupid comment to make

You might want to find out what the word ‘cliché’ actually means.

What does it matter what term I used? Your points are largely based on a stereotype that is not based on fact. They've been spouted on Boards so many times and proved false that it's tiresome at this stage.

If you believe what I have typed is ‘stupid’ … it really does highlight the problem as to why certain cyclists are complicit in attitude and actions as regards making our roads unsafe. Enabling it actually.

How so? How dows stating that your post is daft mean that I'm condoning cyclists not following the rules (which I'm on the record on Boards saying that they should)? How does me stating that your post is stupid mean that I'm complicit in making the roads unsafe?

magicbastarder

cyclists should be fined for breaking red lights, cycling more than 2 abreast on narrow road - which is the norm out where I am and then they fail to move over or even move into a single line.

cyclists are allowed cycle more than 2 abreast if performing an overtake. and there are many reasons cyclists often don't break into single file, and often it's for their own safety.