Fines for speeding, phone use, no belts set to double

From the article below, looks like the changes could be brought in very quickly. It's yet to be seen if they'll double the penalty points.

Personally I don't think fines will be a deterrent, doubling the points would probably be a better deterrent.

What do ye think?

RTE news : Driving fines set to double after spike in road deaths

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0726/1312249-road-safety/

Seth Brundle

Useless announcement without enforcement!

SteM

I agree that doubling points would be more of a deterrent but it doesn't really matter unless there's more enforcement. I've been driving the M50 & N11 off peak a lot recently and the amount of people doing at least 130 in the 100 zones is incredible, they know there's little chance of them being caught.

D3V!L

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387961#Comment_119387961

Exactly this.

I ride a quite large tall motorbike and I can see into car cabins quite easily. Phone use is at an all time high !! There seems to be zero fear of getting caught.

kirving

Seems to me like it's being brought in so that the government can say they're doing something.

Will it actually translate to fewer deaths on our roads?

Miscreant

I think the fines should be a percentage of the "offender's" monthly income. That would make people think twice if they were being hit with 10% for each offence. Get caught doing 3 offences, then that is 30% of a fine. The points can stay the same as I believe that 3 for speeding/mobile phone use/not wearing a seatbelt, is more than enough.

Also, I still can't believe there are people out there who will drive without a seatbelt on. Boggles the mind!

ronaneire

Way too many bad drivers on our roads.

People question how accidents happen on motorways, I was on the M7 Limerick bypass over taking a car, they decide to overtake the car in front of them and without looking correctly in their mirrors start to move into the lane I'm in. If Ihad my eye of the the road for one second it would be a different story.

It will always be speeding, phones or lack of wearing seatbelts, nut never pure careless stupidity that can cause and accident.

To me it just seems like another cash cow!

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387968#Comment_119387968

There's quite a bit of "shooting fish in a barrel" about nailing motorists on motorways unless they introduce average speed cameras, which is a bit pointless on the M50 most of the time. It's actually currently of greater urgency to address real problem spots, where there are a lot more road risks.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387996#Comment_119387996

I think those are called "Days" fines, so speeding would equal x number of days of your income. It's a good idea

zg3409

It's the usual RSA making changes that don't save lives. Speed vans on the safest roads in Ireland (motorways) , on straight national roads, on roads with crazy low speed limits. It's sabre rattling and trying to scare drivers without proper enforcement. General sneaking over the limit is not the issue. Traffic levels are back to normal.

Proper hidden speed checks, seatbelt checks, proper dangerous driving enforcement, proper phone use enforcement.

I used to drive all over Ireland during office hours and there is hardly any enforcement anywhere. The speed vans can often been seen and drivers jam on with plenty of time before camera can get them. Yesterday I passed one but I was flashed at least 6 times in advance by oncoming vehicles. It was on a broad safe stretch of road.

The RSA making a change that has no impact, except instead of spending money on enforcement actually makes money in fines, while not stopping issue. Money grabbing is usual motorists complaints and how is this different?

Look at all the laws, fines, technology and money thrown at this over the years.

They have got good results but no matter what ya do, there's always gonna be idiots who will do idiot thing's.

The minority causing problems for the majority again.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058256099/fines-for-speeding-phone-use-no-belts-set-to-double

You are constantly on here looking to get speed limits reduced and many have been reduced by a lot.

As I pointed out to you on the other threads, reduced speed limits might not result in less deaths and could in fact lead to more deaths.

It might be frustrating, but reduced limits with zero enforcement will likely lead to more reckless drivers doing silly things and ultimately more deaths.

Instead of always focusing on speed, we should be looking at the real problem areas and addressing those to stop accidents.

Either way, we've reduced lots of speed limits and the official data is not showing less deaths.

monkeyactive

Whatever they do they need to start adjusting those fines to income , an €80 hit for one person is a much bigger sting than it is for another.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388113#Comment_119388113

Sure, but the fines are for breaking the law so there's an easy answer to avoiding that sting. There's no dispute that the activities listed for increases are an accident risk.

magicbastarder

it'd be very funny if they brought in a sliding scale of licence revocation. 12 points; not allowed drive. above 9 points - not allowed drive anything with an engine bigger than 1l or 100HP. above 6 points - not allowed drive anything bigger than 1.5l or 120HP. above 3 points - not allowed drive anything bigger than 2l or 200HP...

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388075#Comment_119388075

Where are these crazy low speed limits? I've seen drivers drive at the speed limit and above rather than at a safe speed but haven't witnessed these crazy low speed limits. Same as people I hear complaining they can't drive at 30kmph or below but manage to safely get in and out of their driveway/car park or survive rush hour traffic.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388099#Comment_119388099

i'd have thought there's not nearly enough technology thrown at this over the years; the only thing we have is speed cameras. garda cars should be equipped with cameras constantly scanning number plates and running them against insurance and tax databases.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388017#Comment_119388017

It's only "shooting fish in a barrel" because so many people do it. Motorway driving is an indicator of how people drive in general here imo, happy to break the rules when it suits them.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388156#Comment_119388156

You can drive at 30kph but it takes a fair bit of practice. The real challenge to it is that it is not just the brief time it takes to pull out of a driveway and some 30 kph zones can take a good few minutes to get through. As for the crazy low speeds people are talking about there are plenty of examples of wider roads with 60 kph on them just as there are still very narrow word with 80 kph on them.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388186#Comment_119388186

That's not my experience but I guess it probably depends on the location. I think it is a small subset of drivers who constantly misbehave. You can have a whole convoy doing 130 kph and above on a motorway and meet some of those same drivers observing a 50 or 60 kph limit.

Stone Deaf 4evr

My kids are just hitting the age where they could be trusted to cycle to school, however, I have a major fear associated with it.

The school is not 1km from my house, but theres a crossroads with traffic lights that has to be passed through.

Every time, without fail, when I drive through this junction, most of the waiting traffic have the heads down, looking at their lap, and presumably their phones. The 30-40 seconds it takes for the lights to change, is long enough that these dullards get bored and have to check twitter / insta or some other inane nonsense.

There are junctions like this across the country, and without enforcement, they can double, triple, multiply x 10 the fines and points, it'll make no difference.

I'm not sure if it needs the creation of some sort of policing subset of traffic officers , who's sole duty is enforcement of these kind of things.

whisky_galore

Someone who drives without a seatbelt these days needs a slap upside the head.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388100#Comment_119388100

You are constantly on here looking to get speed limits reduced and many have been reduced by a lot.

Eh? This is the first post I've ever made on this forum related to speed and it's based on a govt announcement.

The stats are pretty clear as regards speeding and deaths

_ptashek_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058256099/fines-for-speeding-phone-use-no-belts-set-to-double

Typical Irish government knee-jerk reaction. As if fines will change the driving style of people who never properly learn how to drive in a multitude of road conditions.

I've driven many thousands of km in other countries, and what I see every day on Irish roads is a horror show of driver incompetence.

Making incompetent drivers drive slower doesn't make them any less dangerous.

Subzero3

Nothing will chance, people will just pay more. Its a form of tax so the government can spend on other money wasting things.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388190#Comment_119388190

Anyone who can't safely drive at a prescribed speed limit should have their licence revoked, end of. It's literally the most basic of requirements

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388232#Comment_119388232

You can just get off the bicycle, cross the junction as a pedestrian then continue your journey.

I assume you then say there's no way for a pedestrian to cross it.

Some routes are viable, some routes aren't.

benny79

I am not a speeder mostly watch my speed and limits of the road. I would class myself as a safe driver. I have been done a fair few times speeding. Now for those of you who question this! its always been on a motorway where I am either over taking and forget to reduce speed or speed goes up without me realising. Lets be honest in most modern cars you dont notice the different from doing 120 kph or 130kph unless you keep an eye on indicator (which I do mostly) and always drop back down under limit. But the speed limits are ridiculous. The naas road is 100 kph until you get to the ball in Naas then it goes up to 120kph (both 3 lanes) Plus the points stay on your licence for 3 years which is a long time.. I have a big commute to work mostly motorway and always pass 2 speeding vans a day.. There a cash cow imo.

bad driving an inexperience cause's crashes and yes speeding to some extent but most crashes on the naas road which are a regular occurrence are from tail gating! I see it everyday.

Miscreant

If only we had some sort of dedicated Garda unit to police the roads.... We could call it the "Traffic Corp" or something catchy like that!

I'll start writing to my local TD with the idea......

Witcher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388605#Comment_119388605

A 'cash cow' that costs more to operate than it brings in...

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388190#Comment_119388190

If it takes practice to drive at 30kmph then that driver shouldn't be in the road. How do they deal with rush hour, older agricultural machinery, pedestrians and cyclists on rural roads. As for the 60kmph on wider roads, I presume you mean somewhere like the N11. This is because although it doesn't feel like it, it is actually a built up residential area with lots of schools. The 80kmph roads in the country are only an issue because some morons can't tell the difference between the word limit and target. Anyway, rant over.

harmless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388002#Comment_119388002

But is it a cash cow? I always figured that enforcement(what little there is) was very expensive and cost far more than the small fines. Would these increased fines actually make fining motorists profitable? Does anyone know how to calculate this to see which is true.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388605#Comment_119388605

I am not a speeder mostly watch my speed and limits of the road.

So you never speed?

I would class myself as a safe driver. I have been done a fair few times speeding.

But I thought you weren't a speeder???

Lets be honest in most modern cars you dont notice the different from doing 120 kph or 130kph unless you keep an eye on indicator (which I do mostly) and always drop back down under limit.

So you are not aware of your speed and are unable to maintain a constant speed on a motorway for any reasonable distance? But you said that you were a safe driver???

But the speed limits are ridiculous. The naas road is 100 kph until you get to the ball in Naas then it goes up to 120kph (both 3 lanes)

There are pedestrians, cyclists, people with animals and other road users who are not sitting in a car. 100km/h is plenty fast for that road before you look at the large volumes that use the road daily, many of whom are not following basic principals of driving such as keeping left!

Plus the points stay on your licence for 3 years which is a long time.. I have a big commute to work mostly motorway and always pass 2 speeding vans a day.. There a cash cow imo.

If you don't want the points to be on your licence for 3 years then don't be caught speeding! Simples!

Out of curiosity, how much does the cash cow take from you every day?

bad driving an inexperience cause's crashes and yes speeding to some extent but most crashes on the naas road which are a regular occurrence are from tail gating! I see it everyday.

So you admit that speeding causes incidents but are opposed to punishing drivers for it?

Stone Deaf 4evr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388582#Comment_119388582

pedestrian crossings are safe, on the assumption that the other road users are taking due care and attention, if someone is stopped at a junction, looking down at their phone, and misses their green light, they are more likely to proceed forwards carelessly and quickly if someone else in the queue beeps their horn.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388686#Comment_119388686

Cars are mostly safe unless driven by an idiot. Is there a point to your comment.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388605#Comment_119388605

what's 'a fair few times'? people might say 'few' if it had been 3 or 4 times; to qualify it as 'a fair few times' would suggest more.

people seem to find it a mental burden to be expected to know how fast they're going on a motorway (or anywhere else). i worry about these people on the road. they have to worry about what gear they're in too, which way the steering wheel is pointed, where their feet are, their mirrors... so much to have to concentrate on.

Reducing speed limits and doubling fines are the kind of nanny state actions that we are accustomed to in Ireland.

And then we end up with road deaths increasing as the data shows.

What we really need to do is fix the problems areas that cause crashes and enforce the current limits. But that's hard work...

So fines and speed reductions it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388176#Comment_119388176

Ah no, do you wanna live in China or North Korea?

What difference does it make anyway to safety on the road if a car is insured or taxed?

Just have to educate the idiots better, easier said than done of course

magicbastarder

we end up with increasing road deaths partly because the road traffic law is not enforced; fines are immaterial if people know they won't be prosecuted.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388757#Comment_119388757

i believe china and north korea lock people up for political dissent, etc., or being the wrong religion. i am talking about fining people for driving without insurance etc.; there's a subtle but distinguishable difference.

a colleague of mine was fined €5 in germany for crossing at a red pedestrian light. the policeman (may have been a local traffic corps sort of lad) was carrying a credit card machine to levy the fine.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388757#Comment_119388757

Cost of things changes people behavior.

liamog

Just another useless measure that doesn't tackle the reason the fines are already ignored.

The government needs to understand that a fine is not a deterrent if enforcement is 0, I don't really care if I'm not paying a €100 fine or a €200 fine, either way I'm still getting away with not paying a fine. I'd rather see a €15 fine with enforcement that catches people once a week then we will see a real change in behavior.

benny79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388640#Comment_119388640

How do you work that out? Plus there meant to be in accident black spots.

Stone Deaf 4evr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388736#Comment_119388736

Aye, you made the point to use pedestrian crossings to avoid cycling around people using phones in traffic. I fail to see how that's any safer if said plentiful idiots are still looking at their phones. Driver behaviour needs to change, there's only so much that pedestrians or cyclist can do.

benny79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388668#Comment_119388668

You totally took up what I said wrong. Suppose there is always one! If you are on a straight road (motorway) for a very long time your speed will go up & down due to concentration. Touch wood I have never been in a crash or pulled over for speeding but have got done by the vans obviously over the limit mainly due to lack of concentration on my behalf on motorways.

hoodie6029

Increased fines are a start and will deter and wake up some people. Speed camera locations have been expanded too.

The fact that with modern cars with all their safety features that so many people are dying is shocking. I am sure that there are many factors to this but the amount of phone use, WhatsApp, video calls and who knows what else while driving, is endemic.

People are addicted to these devices and addicted being in constant communication. This is something that needs to tackled in a major way, not just some ads on TV.

When you don’t get a chance to brake, the collision is going to be so much worse. When you’re distracted and don’t get to brake or brake late, the effectiveness of all your safety features are reduced.

Hellrazer

They can put the fines up to anything they want but without enforcement its absolutely useless. What needs to happen is a zero tolerance approach to the more minor infractions and the major ones will become less. If people think they will be caught for minor stuff then it might make them sit up and think.

Headlight bulb gone - €60.00 fine. Failure to indicate - €60.00 fine etc - No more excuses for the minor stuff.

Only yesterday an idiot broke a red light and almost drove straight into the front of me. Best part of it - Garda car in the lane beside me sees everything and they do **** all despite me letting the window down and asking them were they going to act. They just drove on without a care in the world.

Maybe they werent "traffic" Garda!!!

Curious, some are saying this won't get to the root of the behaviour or stop people speeding.

What then should be done?

Afaik, the only way to eliminate it would be through physical design changes to roads i.e. make it physically impossible (chicanes, speed bumps etc) or psychologically improbable (lane narrowing etc).

benny79

Phones & people applying make up are a bigger problem imo plus you even see law enforcement on their phones while driving! I also think lack of experience as its very easy to get a licence in this country compared to other EU countries Although we are slowly getting better! But the answer isn't to jack up fines and points!

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388825#Comment_119388825

Incorrect. I made the point if there's a (busy) junction/crossing you don't like on your cycling route. You can dismount and bypass it on foot. Lateral thinking a safer route etc.

Signal Controlled Pedestrian crossing are statistically safer. They've done lots of studies on it.

My comment had nothing to do traffic in general.

One way of changing driver behavior is punitive penalties. But that only works if its enforced. Thus far enforcement poor. Then you got to consider if enforcement stats are even accurate considering the various scandal's.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388795#Comment_119388795

dunno how many times i've told the story here, but passing the local spar a few years ago, there was a grab truck with the livery of a well known builders merchant parked up on the footpath, all wheels on the footpath. there was a garda coming out of the spar at the time so i moseyed over, and mentioned this to him, and he was utterly disinterested till i said to him that the tyres were bald too; one was completely slick.