Ireland running out of accommodation for Ukrainian refugees due to surge in non-Ukrainian refugees?

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120405316#Comment_120405316

Anyone with even a cursory understanding of history would know humans have always sought to move toplaces with better opportunities. They would also know that where there has been an raise the drawbridge approach there has always been failure.

As for your comments on Africa. Draw a line under it because it suits your argument is it? When the impacts of centuries of policy are real an continuing. The only two ways to “switch off the tap” on mass migration into Europe are to 1. Improve conditions in the counties from which people are travelling or 2. Make Europe a less attractive place to go through policies of economic atrophy. Lock them out never has a never will work.

tinsofpeas

This person above is like the condensed version of every ill-conceived notion rolled onto one.

Ireland worked perfectly okay, warts and all, before mass immigration began. Now that it has mass immigration, it works less well.

Irish people did all the jobs in Ireland before mass immigration. Mass immigration puts negative pressure on wages and increases living costs, therefore the likes of meat factories are only going to attract those willing to live a lower quality of life, a la 6 people living in a 2 bedroom apartment. Irish people don't want that.

Irish healthcare was run by Irish people before mass immigration, and it was never in the state it is now that we have mass immigration. Entire classes of of Irish doctors, nurses and adjacent are leaving the country ASAP because the cost of living, especially housing and depressed wages, makes it unattractive if not impossible. This is then shored up by importing cheaper labour into healthcare, which in turn makes the situation worse again. A perfect cycle of diminishing returns.

And that's without getting into the fact of what Irish people actually want. Nobody was given a direct say on mass immigration, and what Irish people want in Ireland trumps everything and anything, including a phantom pyramid economy.

The United Nations is increasingly warning against the fallacies of false economies built on mass immigration, the people don't want it, the excuses make no sense, it is demonstrably a bad deal for all concerned, look at how things are getting worse the more people arrive. Mass immigration in the 21st century is a dead economic theory walking.

And if none of that rings true, all those bad notions in favour of mass immigration apply just as well with sending people to the antarctic. "It's not the people arriving into the antarctic that's the problem, it's the antarctic governments fault for not building enough housing. There aren't enough doctors in the antarctic now to look after the homeless people, so better send more people!" and so forth.

And that's without out even going into the equally important, if not more important, lack of discussion on culture, identity, rightful expectation and so on.

Mass immigration is flat earth territory, not a jot of it stands to scrutiny, and you better believe that when 9% of a population arrives within a mere 5 years, yes, that's mass immigration. Its a stupid idea from paper all the way to observed reality.

72sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120404990#Comment_120404990

Speaking of Housing, looks like Minister O'Brien's planning reform has just been declared "unworkable" by the IPI i.e. the Planners!! I wonder does the wife of the disgraced former ABP Chairman still work for Minister O'Brien. Notice also how the previous Housing Minister is off galavanting on international manoeuvres with EU/UN. So yes, Housing is something that FFG are still toiling with and are determined to fix ;-)

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/housing-planning/2023/03/27/government-overhaul-of-planning-system-rejected-as-unworkable-by-irish-planning-institute/

Nosler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120404991#Comment_120404991

No one can really blame someone for coming to Europe to get a better life... however at the same time, you can't blame Europeans for being angry when people arrive and reduce their quality of life...

Each house given to a Nigerian/ Pakistani/ Algerian family is one house not available for an Irish family to move into...

Nosler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120404840#Comment_120404840

Places like Africa weren't particularly nice places to live before the European powers arrived... Africa has always had tribal wars and mass starvation....

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120405726#Comment_120405726

Ireland before immigration was a depressing and miserable place, with huge numbers of people leaving the country. One million left Ireland in the 1950s and many hundreds of thousands in the 1980s. Those versions of Ireland also had large sections of the population who didn't leave caught in the poverty trap.

David McWilliams strongly challenges the narrative that immigration is bad for a country economically and has published many stats to back up his point. For sure, there is a severe housing crisis but that has been caused by government ineptitude and bad planning over the last 15-20 years. Also, there are housing crises all over Europe at the moment....many European cities have run into similar problems as ourselves.

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406220#Comment_120406220

So if you were to accept the narrative that Ireland was a miserable place for many Irish people before mass immigration, and all the facts point to it being a miserable place for irish people with mass immigration...(housing, healthcare, education, social mobility)

Then what is the effing point in importing more and more people?

But the narrative you present is wrong from inception anyway.

Mass immigration fuelled economies that strip social infrastructure, EVIDENTLY SO, are pure monkey ideas. Stupid, 24 hours a day.

It'd the economic theory of 16th century colonialism brought home. Cannabilism.

Mass immigration is a detriment, it could never have been anything else in such a small country.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406344#Comment_120406344

You said in your earlier post that pre-immigration 'Irish people did all of the jobs in Ireland'. That alone tells us that there is no going back to that era. What person with a degree or a good Leaving Cert would want to work in a meat factory, or on a bin lorry, or in a food processing plant or as a cleaner in 2023 (when many of their peers and classmates might be working in an office or high tech industry)? The Ireland of the 1950s is gone....no amount of wishful thinking will bring it back.

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406614#Comment_120406614

There's nothing wrong with work, all types. The problem is the remuneration and the quality of life it affords

What you're advocating for, even though I doubt you realise it, is that these types of company belong in other countries.

If your business pays only enough money to attract people from the developing world, well then your company belongs in the developing world.

It's complete and utter economic fallacy, daydreams.

The actual reality is that these companies and job types do not pay wages adequate to their environment. Their imported workforce are "happy" enough to emulate the conditions they left behind and, only naturally, drags the local population down to that level too. You talk of not going back to the 1950's, well how about the direction we're heading to the squashed tenements of the 19th century? No thanks.

As said, it's the economic theory of colonialism from centuries ago, wrapped up in new clothes and brought home instead of far away. Farcical.

Mass immigration used to fuel false economies is a dead end. That dead end is manifesting itself right this instance. It's going to continue gathering pace until those few stragglers accept that the future is not based on imported populations to fuel economies that benefit very few, but is instead based on moulding economies to benefit the existing populations of countries. These are the thoughts of both myself and the United Nations at large.

Forward thinking, planning, common sense, sustainability, adjusting to environment, working efficiently, working productively, life improvement....these are things that run diametrically opposed to mass immigration.

Mass immigration is a mugs game. And that would be fine in itself if it weren't negatively impacting most of this country in the most fundamental ways. It's serious.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406220#Comment_120406220

This David McWilliams?

https://mobile.twitter.com/PangurBn10/status/1622325534565744643

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406614#Comment_120406614

Maybe it would force Irish people to pick valuable trades instead of useless degrees

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406169#Comment_120406169

The anger should be directed at the lack of action on housing. Not against people trying to find a better life

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406819#Comment_120406819

You do know it is possible to change your idea about a topic or change your conclusion when the situation changes

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406757#Comment_120406757

You talk of squashed tenements - if the population doubled we would still be at 1/3 that of the Netherlands. We have the room. Just not the infrastructure.

Also, the jobs that immigrants are doing are in support functions to the larger industries. You can’t offshore the cleaner, the bin man, the waiter etc.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407228#Comment_120407228

Of course. It's also good to acknowledge previously held opinions and explain why you shifted.

I have not heard McWilliams do that

jackofalltrades

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407264#Comment_120407264

If our population doubled we'd be at 57% of the Netherlands population.

We'll have the room when our population accepts the need for building high density, possible high rise developments. And are happy for money to be spent on the infrastructure that these developments would need. As it stands our society just isn't mature enough for that.

We seem to want migrants, but not build the houses/apartments for them to live in.

jackofalltrades

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406819#Comment_120406819

I don't have much time for the man, but his argument that migration is a class based issue and affects different sections of our society in different ways is bang on the money.

Nosler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407211#Comment_120407211

The anger should be reserved for the political class and left wing journalists. They are the people that have sold the Irish people out.

Ireland is filling up with citizens that have no real loyalty towards Ireland. For a lot of new Irish an Irish passport is just a method to get a free house and free money.

Why should Irish people be expected to have a lower quality of life to accommodate asylum seekers? Why should the needs of a Nigerian/ Pakistani/ Somalian be put ahead of an Irish person?

dmakc

RTE news lead with this tonight. If we're already over full (i.e. 400+ on the streets according to RTE) what is the logic behind taking more in? Do many head back?

slay55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406614#Comment_120406614

Not all Irish have a degree or good leaving cert. Ridiculous argument

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407620#Comment_120407620

But at 1/3rd of the density.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407743#Comment_120407743

The government guaranteed that all would be sorted by April. Thousands of modular houses will come on stream and all the alternatives needed will be in place. So, keep the fate for a couple more weeks and it will be crisis over. Unless of course the government were just making stuff up……

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407715#Comment_120407715

Yes, Ireland is the obvious place to go for a free house. That’s why non nationals are over represented in homeless numbers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120208420#Comment_120208420

"Ukraine are winning; it will be all over soon" is the new "two weeks to flatten the curve" 😃

People are so gullible.

Galwayguy35

RTE interviewing a few of the migrants in tents, none of them could speak English so a translator had to be there to do the interview.

What good would they ever be to this country not being able to even speak the language, they will only end up costing the taxpayer here money.

Nosler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407832#Comment_120407832

OK, let's look at the facts:

1. The vast bulk of houses in Ireland were built by Irish people.

2. The Irish taxpayer funded the vast bulk of social housing in Ireland.

Why should any non Irish person get a house in Ireland from the Irish taxpayer?

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407832#Comment_120407832

And in social housing numbers

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120408612#Comment_120408612

The vast bulk of houses in Ireland were built by Irish people.

Irish contractors or Irish workers or are you saying the majority of Irish people built their own house?

Because using your logic the majority of houses built in the 21st century should have polish occupants. But they don't?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120408766#Comment_120408766

Are you actually trying to claim that the majority of people in social housing are non Irish? Cause that's definitely not true.

Hamachi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409090#Comment_120409090

Can you back up that assertion? If it’s definitely not true, please link to current data. Thanks.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120409090#Comment_120409090

No I am claiming they are over represented.

Which if you read what I had posted was rather obvious