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Ireland running out of accommodation for Ukrainian refugees due to surge in non-Ukrainian refugees?

donaghs

Is this really happening?

Only heard about it this week, but in the context of it being the UK's fault for having the Rwanda refugee plan.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/people-fleeing-wars-will-be-prioritised-in-the-irish-asylum-system-taoiseach-insists-41839628.html

The Citywest scheme was setup to house Ukrainian refugees, but only 30% of people there are Ukrainian? (Irish Independent).

https://www.politico.eu/article/micheal-martin-ireland-ukraine-war-refugees-uk-rwanda-policy/

Although other sources like the BBC says the Rwanda policy has not reduced the number of illegal migrants coming into the UK, and no-one has been sent to Rwanda yet - attempted flights were cancelled due to legal rulings.

https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-61782866

Is this a result of the UK getting tougher on illegal immigration and asylum claims? This is all new to me, the number of non-Ukrainians seems staggering, given the war in Ukraine, and the media about it, and even some people complaining about Ireland have to look after victims of the Russian invasion.

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Comments

Galwayguy35

RTE interviewing a few of the migrants in tents, none of them could speak English so a translator had to be there to do the interview.

What good would they ever be to this country not being able to even speak the language, they will only end up costing the taxpayer here money.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120208420#Comment_120208420

"Ukraine are winning; it will be all over soon" is the new "two weeks to flatten the curve" 😃

People are so gullible.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407715#Comment_120407715

Yes, Ireland is the obvious place to go for a free house. That’s why non nationals are over represented in homeless numbers.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407743#Comment_120407743

The government guaranteed that all would be sorted by April. Thousands of modular houses will come on stream and all the alternatives needed will be in place. So, keep the fate for a couple more weeks and it will be crisis over. Unless of course the government were just making stuff up……

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407620#Comment_120407620

But at 1/3rd of the density.

slay55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406614#Comment_120406614

Not all Irish have a degree or good leaving cert. Ridiculous argument

dmakc

RTE news lead with this tonight. If we're already over full (i.e. 400+ on the streets according to RTE) what is the logic behind taking more in? Do many head back?

Nosler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407211#Comment_120407211

The anger should be reserved for the political class and left wing journalists. They are the people that have sold the Irish people out.

Ireland is filling up with citizens that have no real loyalty towards Ireland. For a lot of new Irish an Irish passport is just a method to get a free house and free money.

Why should Irish people be expected to have a lower quality of life to accommodate asylum seekers? Why should the needs of a Nigerian/ Pakistani/ Somalian be put ahead of an Irish person?

jackofalltrades

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406819#Comment_120406819

I don't have much time for the man, but his argument that migration is a class based issue and affects different sections of our society in different ways is bang on the money.

jackofalltrades

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407264#Comment_120407264

If our population doubled we'd be at 57% of the Netherlands population.

We'll have the room when our population accepts the need for building high density, possible high rise developments. And are happy for money to be spent on the infrastructure that these developments would need. As it stands our society just isn't mature enough for that.

We seem to want migrants, but not build the houses/apartments for them to live in.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407228#Comment_120407228

Of course. It's also good to acknowledge previously held opinions and explain why you shifted.

I have not heard McWilliams do that

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406757#Comment_120406757

You talk of squashed tenements - if the population doubled we would still be at 1/3 that of the Netherlands. We have the room. Just not the infrastructure.

Also, the jobs that immigrants are doing are in support functions to the larger industries. You can’t offshore the cleaner, the bin man, the waiter etc.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406819#Comment_120406819

You do know it is possible to change your idea about a topic or change your conclusion when the situation changes

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406169#Comment_120406169

The anger should be directed at the lack of action on housing. Not against people trying to find a better life

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406614#Comment_120406614

Maybe it would force Irish people to pick valuable trades instead of useless degrees

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406220#Comment_120406220

This David McWilliams?

https://mobile.twitter.com/PangurBn10/status/1622325534565744643

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406614#Comment_120406614

There's nothing wrong with work, all types. The problem is the remuneration and the quality of life it affords

What you're advocating for, even though I doubt you realise it, is that these types of company belong in other countries.

If your business pays only enough money to attract people from the developing world, well then your company belongs in the developing world.

It's complete and utter economic fallacy, daydreams.

The actual reality is that these companies and job types do not pay wages adequate to their environment. Their imported workforce are "happy" enough to emulate the conditions they left behind and, only naturally, drags the local population down to that level too. You talk of not going back to the 1950's, well how about the direction we're heading to the squashed tenements of the 19th century? No thanks.

As said, it's the economic theory of colonialism from centuries ago, wrapped up in new clothes and brought home instead of far away. Farcical.

Mass immigration used to fuel false economies is a dead end. That dead end is manifesting itself right this instance. It's going to continue gathering pace until those few stragglers accept that the future is not based on imported populations to fuel economies that benefit very few, but is instead based on moulding economies to benefit the existing populations of countries. These are the thoughts of both myself and the United Nations at large.

Forward thinking, planning, common sense, sustainability, adjusting to environment, working efficiently, working productively, life improvement....these are things that run diametrically opposed to mass immigration.

Mass immigration is a mugs game. And that would be fine in itself if it weren't negatively impacting most of this country in the most fundamental ways. It's serious.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406344#Comment_120406344

You said in your earlier post that pre-immigration 'Irish people did all of the jobs in Ireland'. That alone tells us that there is no going back to that era. What person with a degree or a good Leaving Cert would want to work in a meat factory, or on a bin lorry, or in a food processing plant or as a cleaner in 2023 (when many of their peers and classmates might be working in an office or high tech industry)? The Ireland of the 1950s is gone....no amount of wishful thinking will bring it back.

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120406220#Comment_120406220

So if you were to accept the narrative that Ireland was a miserable place for many Irish people before mass immigration, and all the facts point to it being a miserable place for irish people with mass immigration...(housing, healthcare, education, social mobility)

Then what is the effing point in importing more and more people?

But the narrative you present is wrong from inception anyway.

Mass immigration fuelled economies that strip social infrastructure, EVIDENTLY SO, are pure monkey ideas. Stupid, 24 hours a day.

It'd the economic theory of 16th century colonialism brought home. Cannabilism.

Mass immigration is a detriment, it could never have been anything else in such a small country.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120405726#Comment_120405726

Ireland before immigration was a depressing and miserable place, with huge numbers of people leaving the country. One million left Ireland in the 1950s and many hundreds of thousands in the 1980s. Those versions of Ireland also had large sections of the population who didn't leave caught in the poverty trap.

David McWilliams strongly challenges the narrative that immigration is bad for a country economically and has published many stats to back up his point. For sure, there is a severe housing crisis but that has been caused by government ineptitude and bad planning over the last 15-20 years. Also, there are housing crises all over Europe at the moment....many European cities have run into similar problems as ourselves.

Nosler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120404840#Comment_120404840

Places like Africa weren't particularly nice places to live before the European powers arrived... Africa has always had tribal wars and mass starvation....

Nosler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120404991#Comment_120404991

No one can really blame someone for coming to Europe to get a better life... however at the same time, you can't blame Europeans for being angry when people arrive and reduce their quality of life...

Each house given to a Nigerian/ Pakistani/ Algerian family is one house not available for an Irish family to move into...

72sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120404990#Comment_120404990

Speaking of Housing, looks like Minister O'Brien's planning reform has just been declared "unworkable" by the IPI i.e. the Planners!! I wonder does the wife of the disgraced former ABP Chairman still work for Minister O'Brien. Notice also how the previous Housing Minister is off galavanting on international manoeuvres with EU/UN. So yes, Housing is something that FFG are still toiling with and are determined to fix ;-)

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/housing-planning/2023/03/27/government-overhaul-of-planning-system-rejected-as-unworkable-by-irish-planning-institute/

tinsofpeas

This person above is like the condensed version of every ill-conceived notion rolled onto one.

Ireland worked perfectly okay, warts and all, before mass immigration began. Now that it has mass immigration, it works less well.

Irish people did all the jobs in Ireland before mass immigration. Mass immigration puts negative pressure on wages and increases living costs, therefore the likes of meat factories are only going to attract those willing to live a lower quality of life, a la 6 people living in a 2 bedroom apartment. Irish people don't want that.

Irish healthcare was run by Irish people before mass immigration, and it was never in the state it is now that we have mass immigration. Entire classes of of Irish doctors, nurses and adjacent are leaving the country ASAP because the cost of living, especially housing and depressed wages, makes it unattractive if not impossible. This is then shored up by importing cheaper labour into healthcare, which in turn makes the situation worse again. A perfect cycle of diminishing returns.

And that's without getting into the fact of what Irish people actually want. Nobody was given a direct say on mass immigration, and what Irish people want in Ireland trumps everything and anything, including a phantom pyramid economy.

The United Nations is increasingly warning against the fallacies of false economies built on mass immigration, the people don't want it, the excuses make no sense, it is demonstrably a bad deal for all concerned, look at how things are getting worse the more people arrive. Mass immigration in the 21st century is a dead economic theory walking.

And if none of that rings true, all those bad notions in favour of mass immigration apply just as well with sending people to the antarctic. "It's not the people arriving into the antarctic that's the problem, it's the antarctic governments fault for not building enough housing. There aren't enough doctors in the antarctic now to look after the homeless people, so better send more people!" and so forth.

And that's without out even going into the equally important, if not more important, lack of discussion on culture, identity, rightful expectation and so on.

Mass immigration is flat earth territory, not a jot of it stands to scrutiny, and you better believe that when 9% of a population arrives within a mere 5 years, yes, that's mass immigration. Its a stupid idea from paper all the way to observed reality.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120405316#Comment_120405316

Anyone with even a cursory understanding of history would know humans have always sought to move toplaces with better opportunities. They would also know that where there has been an raise the drawbridge approach there has always been failure.

As for your comments on Africa. Draw a line under it because it suits your argument is it? When the impacts of centuries of policy are real an continuing. The only two ways to “switch off the tap” on mass migration into Europe are to 1. Improve conditions in the counties from which people are travelling or 2. Make Europe a less attractive place to go through policies of economic atrophy. Lock them out never has a never will work.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120404991#Comment_120404991

Find ing a better life is not reason to open thedoor to the world .

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120405200#Comment_120405200

very few people are are for "no immigration" we are a small country with 3 or 4 hundred million people on our doorstep that can legally work here. there is little reasoning for being open to people outside except on a as required basis for specific skills. Then there is the whole incompetence of enforcing our borders against illegal immigration, we seem to be a soft touch

As for the historical European African situation , ultimately a line has to be drawn under that as not used as some kind perma victim complex. The idea that imagining that Africa ought to return or been left as a continent of people that live in straw huts is rather whimsical which would be the implication of unwinding the affect of the West in Africa if one was to contemplate "reparations".

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120405119#Comment_120405119

I feel I need to point out once more what I was replying to:

I just dont understand why it is acceptable for Africans and Asians etc to come to Europe and economically exploit Europeans

Where does that mention Ireland?

Its not about white guilt. Its about real socio-economic factors caused over many centuries that has created an environment where people feel they need to look elsewhere to make a better life. Just like the many Europeans who did not benefit from the exploitation of the globe who went to america in the 19th and first half of the 20th century. The idea that Europeans are being economically exploited is laughable.

Now do tell why would Africans and Asians want to come to Ireland? Is it because its a kip as people here would have you believe? Is it because life in direct provision is glorious as some would have us believe? Or is it because it presents opportunities to better their lives?

If we really decide we dont want immigration, the best way to do this is by improving the conditions in the countries where people come from to make the decision to stay easier - eg. what happened in Ireland. A closed door immigration policy which does nothing to address the reasons people seek a better life elsewhere is finger in the dam type stuff. Humans have always and will always gravitate towards where conditions are better when faced with hardship

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120404840#Comment_120404840

doesnt explain Ireland though, we grew potatoes, we picked them ourselves, I dont have the white guilt lol

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120404990#Comment_120404990

If immigration was stopped there would be massive shortages of unskilled workers, services provided by those industries would be impacted. No one to work in the restaurants and cafes, no one to pick the fruit, no one to work in meat plants, no one to clean the offices etc, because Irish people generally wont do those jobs. Then the higher skilled workers that depend on those jobs would be under threat. And Irish people would be left with a choice, take the lower skilled work that's left or leave like we used to have to do when the country was stagnating.

There is a housing crisis because 15 years ago the construction industry was mothballed for the best part of a decade with governments too caught up in short term thinking to do anything about it, not because people arrived here to do necessary work.