Why is our connection with Wales so weak?

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119309140#Comment_119309140

And the Welsh gave us the term Gaels for the Irish, it come from a word meaning barbarian or wild man after Irish raiders (similarly the Romans called Irish raiders Scoti which was used to name some other lessor country). I wouldn't be surprised if the Laighin had their origins in Wales (like wise with the Connachta but maybe further North). Around the late Iron Age Ireland had less interaction with Britain than it had in the Bronze Age, and then with Roman and Later Anglo Saxon movement into Britain you had British groups feeling the squeeze and may have overflowed into Ireland or maybe invited as mercenaries (kind of like and earlier version of the Normans).

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119309839#Comment_119309839

Interesting if Gael is a Welsh term for the Irish raiders. Must be related to our word for foreigners, esp mercenaries as in gall. https://www.teanglann.ie/en/fgb/gall

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119310889#Comment_119310889

As far a I know they are different, the word gall for foreigners has more to do with Gaul, either from a common root or based on interactions with people from there.

trashcan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119306777#Comment_119306777

I remember getting HTV, but it was when we had an aerial on the roof and before Cableink.

Also saw Anhrefn play, in Trinity college in a daytime gig. Thought they were good.

j2

Some people here don't seem to like the Welsh! Beautiful country, great place to go hiking or climbing, and in my experience a really nice bunch of people. Really helpful with directions or tips on places to go etc.

tibruit

There is significant evidence of Irish migration to Wales in the later 4th and 5th centuries and they almost certainly founded kingdoms there. Lots of ogham evident in Britain particularly in south and south west Wales. The kingdoms of Brycheiniog and Dyfed were Irish for a while, probably founded by the Uí Líatháin. The Uí Líatháin, the Deisí and Criomthann Mor mac Fidach were probably associated with the Attacotti in Britain. The Attacotti were recorded as barbarian raiders by the Romans in the 360`s but by the end of that century there were four units of them serving in the Roman military. Two of the units were in Gaul and another in Greece.

MrMusician18

My only real experience of Wales and the Welsh is Holyhead, and that place us the most depressing kip in all of northern Europe.

As for why there is no real kinship with Wales is probably down to them not really having a strong nationalist identity, unlike say the Scots.

Even the relationship with the Scots is a bit one sided, it seems far more important for Ireland than the Scots themselves. One would expect though that if they ever vote for independence that the countries would become closer, even as rivals.

Furze99

Maybe our relationship with Wales and Welsh people is something we've forgotten along with the decline of our maritime economy. When you consider the extensive trade and movement both ways across the Irish Sea, there must have been strong family and business ties in previous centuries.

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119309704#Comment_119309704

A grim, violent kip.

Wouldn't have any sort of affinity with other Celtic “nations”. The Welsh bizarrely will tell you how much they hate the English yet they’ve very little interest in independence. They don’t even have a parliament of their own. 😳😳😳

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119318298#Comment_119318298

Well you need to go do some fact checking and learn about Welsh Assembly electons and the Senedd which is the Welsh parliament.

https://senedd.wales/

WesternZulu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119308306#Comment_119308306

I don't know about Scotland holding onto its identity more so than Wales. I lived in Wales and they really show up Scotland, and Ireland for that matter, in how they keep their language alive.

They say a country without its language is without its soul - if that is the case then Wales has far more soul and identity than Scotland (and Ireland!).

I have to say that the Welsh are a lovely people and have far more in common with Irish people than you'd first anticipate. The scenery in N.Wales is out of this world too.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320377#Comment_119320377

The language survived for a number of reasons of over the centuries. Firstly in the Henrician reforms a bible in welsh was written, breaking the link with church latin and so common literacy in welsh congregations increased. A similar attempt to produce an irish version was resisted due to religion being a pretext for land confiscations and so irish remained mostly a spoken language.

It might seem odd to us but being pro-Welsh language doesn't necessarily translate into being pro Welsh independence.

WesternZulu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320568#Comment_119320568

There is an independence movement especially in N.Wales but there does seem to be an acceptance that they're just too small to ever feasibly be an independent country. I suppose in an ideal world they'd like to be free but in reality it doesn't seem practical. But I don't think that necessarily means they are lacking in identity. I think instead they place more significance on their language because that's the only real outlet they have of being Welsh - otherwise what's the point.

Geography isn't in their favour either, for such a small country it's incredibly difficult to travel north to south which doesn't help economics.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320633#Comment_119320633

You're right about the geography. I drove up through Wales from Cardiff to Wrexham and it really was barren for a lot of it, very low density. Most Welsh seem to live along the south and north coasts.

An Irish woman living in North Wales told me that in the former mining areas far right racist groups are becoming a growing concern.

BurntAsh

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/celts-divided-by-more-than-the-irish-sea-1.3705930 sums it up nicely.

"Welsh contempt for the Irish was caused by three factors. The Catholic faith of the majority of Irish people was anathema to nonconformist Wales. The anarchy associated with Ireland (through events like the Land War and the Fenian rebellion of 1867) was a stark contrast to the Welsh self-image of being the most peaceful and law-abiding country on earth. Finally, the large number of poor Irish immigrants who arrived in Wales in the decades after the famine were viewed with contempt by many in Wales."

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320690#Comment_119320690

Wales adopted a different Protestant faith to Scotland and while bottom up in comparison to Catholicism, Wales never had anything like the sectarianism so Intrinsic to Presbyterianism that became embedded to this day in Scotland, the Welsh do not have a problem with anti Catholicism and never have on any significant level

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119308306#Comment_119308306

Don't agree at all , while the independence movement is tiny compared to Scotland, anyone who knows Wales is aware of a very distinctive culture which is separate from England

Further to that , even within Wales there are very distinctive and separate identities , with regards both the Welsh language and a movement for independence, North Wales is far more keen on being seen as not English, I've just spent a full week in North Wales ( as well as Cheshire and Shropshire) and that part of Wales puts us in Ireland to shame , Welsh spoken as often as English everywhere, I also didn't see a single union jack anywhere the entire week, Welsh nationalisms heartland is in the North , Carmarthenshire however in the south west is an outlier in the South as Welsh is also widely spoken there, despite all this , soccer is more prominent in North Wales, you might expect it to be Rugby

All of this is sort of contrary to the common perception of what a quintessential Welsh person is, the stereotypical Welsh have strong Welsh accents and live in the south im former mining centres around Cardiff etc yet both the Welsh language and Welsh nationalism is far less prominent in the South

North Wales = stunning rugged scenery ( snowdonia is more spectacular than anything we have in Ireland bar pockets of Donegal and kerry) , farming and slate making tradition everywhere

South Wales is where the majority of the population lives but its much less into the language and independence thing despite being by far the archetypal Welsh public idea

As for the charges of Wales being a poverty stricken dump, not true from what I observed for the most part, Anglesey is a dump and so this gives a poor first impression as holyhead is the first stop for most Irish people, it's a dump of a town and Anglesey is itself uninteresting with depressed looking villages, head east however towards Bangor and Conwy and things improve greatly in terms of scenery and obvious lifestyle,

Also in the same county of Gynyd is the beautiful town of Caernarfon with its spectacular castle right in the town and beautiful public town square, can't think of any town of similar size in Ireland which is as nice , further east in the county of Denbighshire, there are also many fine towns like Denbigh with a circa ten thousand population which are not far from Chester

I spent five days in North Wales and two days in Cheshire and Shropshire and all have towns and villages which make the vast majority of settlement in Ireland appear ugly ,most towns in Ireland are plain ugly

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321074#Comment_119321074

Tip into Lancaster and behold the post industrial wastelands!

I think the Welsh attitude towards England is symbiotic, not dissimilar to the significance of the treaty of waitangi to Maori culture.

The funny thing is, the Irish are neutral to the Welsh.

But the Welsh can't stand the Irish.

And the Irish brush it off every time and think "nah they don't hate us" because the only possibility in our heads is universal love for Ireland and the Irish.

They're just annoyed it's the Irish Sea rather than the Welsh Sea, since it's their only coast and we have others all around us.

chosen1

I've never met a Welch person who displayed hatred to Irish and they've always been friendly from my experience. There are some rough kips dotted around the country, but they wouldn't be out against any nationality in particular.

Scotland on the otherhand is different. While the vast majority have been friendly there to me regardless of their background, there are places in Glasgow especially where I wouldn't particularly wish to walk around with an Irish accent.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321260#Comment_119321260

Well if " the Welsh can't stand the Irish "

They have a good way of hiding it ,saw no evidence of that ,certainly have experienced hate from the Scots

The Welsh are a little lacking in refinement a little rough and ready, I didnt see one female over there who was strikingly gorgeous, women reminded me of kiwi women, bit overly laddish, all perfectly nice, friendly folk however

FlubberJones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321260#Comment_119321260

I disagree, being Welsh and over here for too many years... some Irish may be neutral but how many times have I heard.. "**** welsh" and of course f*cking Brits"...

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325544#Comment_119325544

Are you surprised by the "British" comments considering the history between the two countries and also how Irish people view things differently to British?

Also, do you not think Irish people have faced similar or worse comments in the UK?

FlubberJones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325608#Comment_119325608

Nope, but that sounds like an Irish issue not mine

And I'm well aware they get **** in the UK, I was imply balancing your comment on the Welsh

Mad_maxx

Another observation, Wales has a much larger forest cover than Ireland, trees everywhere, puts us to shame , they also have far more wind farms

My aunt is living in North Wales since 1963 and I've two cousins live there but this was my first time visiting with my own family , really liked the place but then scenic drives , hill walks and exploring castles are my thing ,Wales has an extraordinary number of castles

England is fantasticly pretty in Cheshire and Shropshire too which are no journey from Wales

A criticism however is retail closes much earlier than in Ireland

I bad mouthed Anglesey earlier, I should have said It has some really nice beaches, apart from that however it gives a poor first impression of Wales when people arrive at holyhead

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320690#Comment_119320690

Another factor was Lloyd George being PM and the lack of support by the Welsh MPs for any degree of Home Rule for Ireland and of course, Lloyd George was the British PM that introduced the partition of Ireland.

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321074#Comment_119321074

I used to do a fair bit of hill walking and climbing in North Wales. The dire poverty of the villages, many of them nearly totally abandoned, just a few miles from the main road reminded me of something you would have seen on the west coast of Ireland in the 50s.

Thatcher killed the spirit of the Welsh in the 80s with all the closing of the mines and replacing them with nothing.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119320867#Comment_119320867

I have no clue from experience but written sources seem to contradict your statement.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-ecclesiastical-history/article/abs/anticatholicism-in-wales-19001960/BF2425BABA1CC315CDDF5B55DD025770

FlubberJones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119325633#Comment_119325633

Being from Holyhead I'll have to agree with you, the decimation of the town main street makes it look diabolical... But head on the coast road around Porthdafarch and then on to Trearddur Bay, Menai Bridge etc... it is very nice. It will help you forget about the min street quite quickly.