Happy with owning an EV in Ireland

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119513947#Comment_119513947

A rough bit of pigeon maths tells me that with the deemed export FIT rate I'm going to get from EI (and if I can fend off a smart meter for at least 3 years), it'll take about 1 year off my payback period for the solar PV installation....

and thats not even counting the roughly 350-400kWh I've put into the car from solar PV this year...

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119513802#Comment_119513802

Get Slsmall battery to carry you through the evening peak rate until night rate kicks in. Since there's a Feed in tariff now you'll be getting paid for anything you export during the day

So I'd wager that you'll be able to significantly reduce your electricity bill, especially with the proposed peak rates coming in

slave1

I can charge my EV in the morning and evening when home from work, I know it's getting into a short window now but it still exists, am home Saturday/Sunday too....

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119514332#Comment_119514332

I think that if I installed solar panels I wouldn't be investing in a battery, with the feed in tarrif essentially being a free low efficiency battery

unkel

You do pay income tax at your marginal rate (50ish percent for many people) on any FIT above €200 per year though. That takes a lot of the pleasure out of it.

A battery also lets you charge up when electricity is clean and cheap and then use it when it is dirty and expensive. You can have a battery system independent of any solar (like a Tesla Powerwall)

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119514332#Comment_119514332

The gotcha there is that, yes, you will reduce your electricity bill but you're just shifting that money to a Chinese battery and hybrid inverter manufacturer. The net gain for the homeowner will be minimal and possibly negative as the battery and more expensive hybrid inverter will need replacing.

Cheap DIY installs are a possible exception to that, but that's not possible for the vast majority and have to pay full retail rates inc labour.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119514917#Comment_119514917

With the rates being better than we expected they should increase that figure alright. I just cant see revenue chasing the small amounts of tax involved.

e.g. You need to export 1200-1400 kWh before that tax kicks in. For most systems that's like ~30% of your generation being exported so it should cover most people's needs but it would be better to increase it to maybe €300-€400.

unkel

Nobody chases any income tax in Ireland, you have to self declare. Nobody will come after you if you don't declare. Until they do of course and then you'd be in a whole lot of trouble.

And 1200kWh per year is not an awful lot. I could easily export 4 or 5 times that and I possibly would if I didn't have to pay income tax on it. And I'm just in a small semi-d house in a Dublin suburb. But yes, with a much larger than average setup. If I had a one off house with a large roof (or even ground mount), I would invest in PV setup just to export. As is fairly common in other countries. A guaranteed decent return on a very low risk investment.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119516343#Comment_119516343

And 1200kWh per year is not an awful lot. I could easily export 4 or 5 times that

As you said, you are an outlier though. Most people wont go much beyond the €200 threshold due to capital cost, roof space, orientation.

If I had a one off house with a large roof (or even ground mount), I would invest in PV setup just to export.

Our government and the CRU have decided they dont want to encourage people like you! 😀

God forbid you made a few euro!

Redfox25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119514917#Comment_119514917

Any companies offering the battery independently of solar and how hard would that kind of setup be?

Current house is the wrong roof shape for PV with area that will take them at a poor orientation.

The idea of charging the battery on night rate and then using it during the day has me thinking.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119516680#Comment_119516680

Sure. Tesla. Their powerwall does exactly that. Or get another AC side battery inverter. Many people use the Sofar ME3000SP. Have a look on the renewables forum. I just sold mine (brand new) a few minutes ago. In winter I charge up from night rate and use it during the day. This system is completely independent from any PV system and can happily work without any PV

Redfox25

Tesla power wall isn't available here yet or am I misreading the website?

unkel

Not sure, there is overwhelming world wide demand for the Tesla power walls and there are significant delays. Nothing stopping you setting up a similar (but better and safer) system yourself though. Plug and play with a Sofar ME3000SP and one or more Pylontech batteries. The AC side will have to be installed by a RECI electrician though as it needs its own "group" in your consumer unit. There's not much more to it than installing a 32A socket though.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119517121#Comment_119517121

You can't buy direct from Tesla here yet. this is because AC batteries were not type approved until recently

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119519256#Comment_119519256

Woot? AC side battery systems weren't "type approved"?

What do you mean by that?

Sofar ME3000SP has had Irish certification for many years. Bought mine nearly 4 years ago and I probably wasn't the first in the country

ELM327

Sorry, bad wording on my behalf, specifically the AC battery tesla powerwall was not type approved by ESBN for use in ROI/NI

slave1

Isn't it something to do with their output level >6kW

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119520160#Comment_119520160

I thought it was the anti islanding system didn't meet the Irish spec (because we're special we have our own)

I believe you can get around it with external anti islanding like the one described below

https://www.tvri.co.uk/downloads/ziehl/protection%20relays%20-%20ziehl/Howto-meet-EN50438-IE-with-noncertfied-solarPV-products-in-Ireland%281%29.pdf

unkel

All inverters I've ever seen, even the cheapest crap from China, have anti-islanding. I very much doubt the Tesla power wall doesn't. Also the Tesla power wall can output 5kW which is well within the 6kW max export limit, but if you already have PV you will have to add the two of them up (like with the ME3000SP), both not relevant in case of the person who asked the question though as they don't have PV.

I guess maybe it didn't have the EN50438 cert that you mean with the ESB Ireland's "special needs" 😂

slave1

Think the latest powewall is 7.6kW output on grid and over 9kW off grid. Maybe they've an adapted version for Ireland, doubt it though

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119520367#Comment_119520367

Yep, not EN50438 compliant. As you say almost every modern inverter has built in anti islanding, but only a few are compliant to Irish standards out of the box

Even the Ziele system I linked earlier doesn't have a preset for Ireland, you have to put the settings in manually

unkel

Yeah like you said, Ireland is "special" yet even the ESB themselves don't stick to their own standards 🙄

That's why only a handful of inverters are sold here as the manufacturers typically are not bothered getting special certification for the handful of units they could possibly sell in Ireland.

I'm happy enough with my Tour 5 id.3, it's got good range however, not all is rosy, fast charging is disgracefully bad in my opinion, most I can get is 60 Kw on Ionity and 50 Kw ESB 150 Kw, the charging curve is very, very conservative for an 82 Kwh battery, again in my opinion.

Some points to know over my old 2017 BMW i3 with 33 Kwh battery ( 2016 tech )

cold battery DC charging as low as 30 Kw when around 21 deg C 50 Kw

BMW i3 with warm battery could charge at 50 Kw all the way to around 85%

VW id.3 82 Kwh plugging in at 30% sees only 50-60 Kw absolute max until around 80%. in 2022 this is a pure joke.

The tour 5 positives ?

Extremely well built as you'd expect, nothing has broken or fallen off.

Nice to drive,

comfortable

Quiet inside

The Travel assist is a pure dream but shame the law makes it beep at you every 16 seconds or there abouts. Particularly amazing in N7 crawling traffic where I have to basically do nothing and if traffic is slow enough I don't have to touch the wheel at all.

With the recent update short range efficiency has greatly improved due to the battery heater not coming on now.

Optional "b" mode, this was torture in the BMW i3, you couldn't turn it off and it was tiring having your foot on the throttle all the time.

id.3 bad points

interior is drab and cheap with plastics you'd see in the Caddy van for 41K ?

Infotainment and too much flustered menus, more buttons please or at least similar to BMW's fantastic Idrive system which I dearly miss.

Lack of rear window switches and can mean mistakenly rolling down the back windows, irritating.

No rear door speakers in a 41 K Car ? you got to be kidding me VW

Standard stereo audio quality is shite but phone quality is very clear unlike the BMW i3 which was very muffled for phone.

Software updates are a joke and a mess.

No option to preheat battery for fast charging.

EV Network

EV network is still disgracefully bad when wanting to take long trips away from home especially in the West, very few if any towns have high power chargers.

Luckily I don't have to rely much on the public charging or have to suffer the id.3 slow charging because it has a lot of range.

Back to the id.3

There's no point paying more for high power chargers if you own a vw id.3 at least the tour 5 when arriving at more than around 12% battery because you will pay more to get the same speed as on a 50 Kw charger.

I hope they fix all this with future updates but after 10 months and 35,600 Kms later I have little hope they will fix this. This issue however is not unique to the VW, id.3.

Patser

Just my little contribution:

Delighted with my little BMW i3 - bought it 4.5 years ago by importing it from UK, and with no VRT cost about €17,000. Could probably still sell it now for close to that.

For that I got a great little driver with incredible acceleration for it's price and age (2014), the best interior of any car I've had - the feeling of space and light, as well as the natural wood dash - and the ease of parking it due to wheel lock and lenght.

That's all before the EV benefits of fuel savings, quietness etc.

And after all these years still a head turner

PaulJoseph22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119544031#Comment_119544031

They really are a great car, well built, with a classy interior, a true innovator for EV’s.

Dubwat

I'[m very happy with my EV and the only downside for me, I guess, is that one can't be spontaneous. Every long journey has to be planned in advance with a plan A, B and C.

Case in point was last Saturday. Which wasn't planned. On a whim, I decided to drive from Dublin to Dungarvan, Co Waterford for a few days R&R. It's 210km door-to-door and I can do the journey without stopping on a full battery but I started with ~60%. Every Ecars* charger leaving Dublin as far as Carlow was busy. I was going to write a lot of text here but basically from Dublin to Dungarvan, this is what I encountered;

All busy except highlighted: Finglas - Heuston (not Ecars/taxi only/I'm a taxi driver) - Clondalkin - Naas - Kilcullen - Carlow (free) - Kilkenny - Knocktopher - Waterford City (out of order) - Dungarvan(free)

• (<-- that should be an asterix) Silly me for expecting a decent service from Ecars but lesson learnt. I'm going to have to look into the alternatives and get more rfid cards etc.

On the plus side, the M9 motorway to Waterford city is relatively quiet and it's a joy to set the Cruise Control & AirCon and play some high quality (FLAC) music whilst driving a mostly quiet car down a mostly quiet motorway!

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119544403#Comment_119544403

Why didn't you use Ionity leaving Dublin?

Dubwat

Because there were 7 or 8 eCars rapid charging stations on my route and I thought 'what could possibly go wrong?' LOL.

But, as I said, lesson learnt!

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119545916#Comment_119545916

With the number of cars increasing as they do, I'd rather pay full price on Ionity than queue at the single per location, slower and very busy ESB chargers. In fact I started with 12% on a whim, not mine, and got at Ionity with 4%, charged for 10 mins and got at the destination. Carlow and Kilkenny are too far to be useful for M9. Circle K is not coming fast enough there. In FInglas you have the EasyGo opposite Garda so you can charge there and get ready for the drive directly to destination.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119546668#Comment_119546668

I'd rather pay full price on Ionity than queue at the single per location, slower and very busy ESB chargers.

This is very true. I have family down in Waterford, and while I can make it down on a full charge no bother, its the lack of charging options down there that make the trip home a ball ache..

• Kill Ionity - too close to home to be of benefit
• Kilcullen - only 2 CCS plugs (only 1 if a Leaf is using the cheaper 50kW CHAdeMO).
• Knocktopher - closed at night, single unit so too risky
• Waterford City - 1 DC charger in the whole city (only 2 eCars DC in the whole county), people camp on the AC here so it's unreliable.

I've decided that from now on if I'm going down, I'll either go via the M7/M8 and top up at the Ballacolla Supercharger, or go via the M11 and use Ionity Gorey.

Maybe this new CircleK one in Paulstown(?) will make the M9 a more attractive prospect again, but I seriously doubt it...