Snooker Season 2022/23

Joe_ Public

That time of year again when the snooker world crashes back into action again with a thunderous bang! Or maybe not!

Anyway, season is up and running again with the Championship League at the Morningside Arena in Leicester and been an ok day thus far for Aaron Hill. Beat Craig Steadman 3-0 and 2-2 draw with David Grace so top of the group with one match left v Ben Hancorn. By my maths, simply avoids defeat and he'll top the group as best Grace could do is finish level and Aaron's 101 break against Steadman would be the clincher. Assuming Grace doesn't go and beat it final match, of course! Think Yan Bingtao was originally drawn in this group but guess he withdrew for some reason.

Joe_ Public

Well, he did the important thing anyway which was to avoid defeat so Grace will now have to beat Steadman 3-0 and eclipse Aaron's high break of 101 to win the group. I would be just a little bit pissed if he manages to do that!

Joe_ Public

And Steadman nicks the second frame and that's it, Aaron wins the group and qualifies for next months second stage. And importantly, banks his first 3k of the season with the potential of more to come. All in all, not a bad way to kick off his second go on tour.

Strumms

How did Judge give up that frame.. bad positional shot followed by dreadful safety when 1-0 was all his, only could have thrown it away and he did.

Joe_ Public

Mick has a chance of winning the group here, win the last frame v Simmonds and he's in with a decent shout.

Joe_ Public

Well done Mick Judge, the only player in the group to win a match so moves forward to join Aaron in the winners stage. Owes Zhang Anda a pint tonight for doing him a big favour against Kyren there.

Strumms

Ken 1-0 against Barry Hawkins, positive start in the second that should have seen him accrue a rake of points. But misses an easy pot, Barry can’t take advantage but Ken misses a pot that I’d even pot by a country mile.

Joe_ Public

Well, Ken got pretty much smoked by Yuan there, doubt he got too much more than 10 shots the whole match! Always did look a pretty tough group to come through in fairness.

Strumms

Ken just manages to win 1 out of the 8 frames he has contested so far today.

safety play was tidy enough but he missed quite a few pots that were not gimmies but say medium difficulty that a couple didn’t even end up threatening the pockets.

sad to see really.

Strumms

Fergal being his usual frustrating self against Zhou in the Champions Leeague…making really difficult pots but missing easy-ish ones …

gets out 2-2

Joe_ Public

Couple of busy days ahead for Aaron. Chen Zifan in European Masters qualifiers this morning, then tomorrow a really good League group with Maguire, MJW and Lu Ning. Should be relishing these games, the more the merrier. Hopefully can win at least one or two of them!

Joe_ Public

Nice routine 5-1 win for Aaron and earns a date with Baz Hawkins in Germany next month, as well as a few quid to keep coffers ticking over. Very scrappy overall it has to be said but looked good among the balls and really terrific last red in last frame to virtually clinch the match. Main job done so look forward to tomorrow now.

Joe_ Public

Bad day at the office for Aaron today, 0-3 to both Williams and Maguire. Two terrible missed blacks against MJW started the rot and just seemed to lose composure from there. Made some cracking pots only to throw away the initiative a couple of shots later, going to have to sort that. Mick Judge not going much better in the other group.

Joe_ Public

Nice break that from Lu Ning to sew up the group, good day for him. Aaron finishes bottom but at least a positive finish from him, much tidier and clinical there than earlier.

ArmaniJeanss

Good start to the season for Jimmy White, qualifying for European Masters. Also the first 60 year old to win a ranking match this century (trivia info according to poster on digital spy)

Jimmy White makes 133 break to set up win over Andrew Pagett in European Masters qualifying - Eurosport

Joe_ Public

I see Hendry has withdrawn from the upcoming Northern Ireland qualifiers which is a shame if only because i thought it was an interesting draw for Aaron and a match I'd have confidently expected him to win. Will face Zhao Jianbo, No.1 on the top up list instead, whom he beat comfortably to secure his tour card at Q School, but still the tougher prospect i fancy.

Joe_ Public

Ken just about grinding his way in front against Ng On Yee in British open qualifiers here, but not exactly pretty has to be said! She's had her chances after winning opening 2 frames. One more needed for Ken and he'll be relieved when/if he gets it!

Joe_ Public

And the frame doesnt arrive! Loses to a fluke but only after he missed a sitter on the pink which was virtual match ball so only himself to blame. Good win for Ng On Yee but not sure i can see her retaining the card on that evidence. Poor match.

Joe_ Public

Liang Wenbo, just back from suspension, obviously very keen to restore his good name and reputation! Fair play to his young opponent whom i thought handled this very well and proceeded to win the match and offer Liang a suitably tepid handshake at the end of it.

https://twitter.com/stevenhallworth/status/1557746750596829184?s=20&t=blzwpURExrmXp3kLDI19pw

Joe_ Public

Bad day at the office for Aaron, 3 prime chances to win the first blown and sinks to 0-4 defeat to Dave Gilbert. Just looked tight and nervous for some reason, taking too long over some of his shots. Off to Germany to face Baz Hawkins in European Masters next so not going to get any easier!

Arthur Daley

That was some result for Michael Judge 5-1 against the defending champion in the European Masters in Germany

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119480612#Comment_119480612

Yeah, great win for him. Saw a couple of frames and Fan missed quite a lot but you got to punish them which Mick did. Early performances this season been quite encouraging, couod and probably should have beaten Steadman in British last week. Daniel Wells up next so decent chance to wrack a few more quid up.

Strumms

yuan looking like he’s a bag of nerves early against Selby… missing a blue off it’s spot then a safety where he leaves the white about two feet short of the balk line…

Selby misses an easy one and let’s him off the hook.

nullObjects

Didn't seem threadworthy on its own, so apologies if it shouldn't go here.

Came across this podcast with Ken that might be of interest:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0KjMxJ27CSqPHeKLNcZz81?si=6446f02736a84f46

Joe_ Public

Good start for Aaron despite two really bad misses on pink and black. 1-0 up on Hawkins.

Joe_ Public

Shame to lose so heavily in the end after a promising start, Hawkins very clinical once he got moving. If you're not sticking these top players tight, sometimes not even getting within a foot of baulk cushion, then they're simply going to murder you every time.

Konny Rool

Mark Williams is a legend 😂 takin the mick out of Dale here 😂 Dale's a cute fecker engaging in banter imo - reckon it puts opponents off, but if they complained it'd almost look unsporting 😆

Great pot from Mark on the pink there to win frame 7 and go four - three up .. hope he wins now !

waynescales1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119461516#Comment_119461516

What do the people in the comments mean when they say "stroke"?

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119491386#Comment_119491386

I didn't see that comment myself but can only assume they mean Liang is trying to pull a "stroke", as in cheating. I suppose technically he's within his rights to query, at least i dont know any rule against it, but it's not a great look and to do so while a player is down on a shot isn't going to win you many friends. As someone mentioned, would he have tried that with a top player? Ronnie?

AllForIt

That was very odd by Liang Wenbo. There is no way he would have been able to tell from his seated vantage point that the ref's decision, that the black didn't spot, was wrong.

Strumms

Barry Hawkins looks all out of sorts against Mark Wilson. 3-0 down and looks like soon to be 4-0

He beat Mark Williams just requiring to play 8 frames from their best of 11 with that 6-2 win but he looks tired today and is making a fair number of forced and unforced errors. Messy.

Strumms

6-2 Wilson leading, playing pretty well, looking confident and only needing 3 more.

Barry doesn’t look on his game. A pity, was quite looking forward to watching this today but it’s been a performance hampered by mistakes, particularly ropey safety play.

Arthur Daley

Surprising, Hawkins looked to be unstoppable against Williams. A bit like the Masters, he might have run out of steam for the final.

Joe_ Public

I mean, Barry not taking the free ball there was such a bizarre decision, i can't understand what his thinking was. Did he just expect Kyren was going to stick him in plum, wasnt that difficult a snooker to get out of nor that difficult a pot on the pink. Sums up his match today for me, just never on it for wjatever reason.

Spiderpig92

Only four 50 breaks in the match and surprisingly only one for Kyren. It won't go down in the history books as a classic by any means...

Joe_ Public

Sad to hear today that Clive Everton has just produced his last ever edition of Snooker Scene after 51 years and over 600 editions. Not clear if that's the end or if someone steps in to take on the baton, but feels like the end of an era either way. Probably better known as a commentator, but Clive was first and foremost a journalist at heart, fearlessly independent and snooker was lucky to have him all those years. Health obviously not been great so past time for him to look after No.1.

Arthur Daley

I'd presume Dave Hendon and Phil Yates would keep it going.

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119571258#Comment_119571258

Seems it's not going to happen. Dave was always the successor in waiting but he's so busy with commentary duties, he's not going to be taking it on. Wpbsa not interested either so not sure where that leaves things, very uncertain anyway.

Spiderpig92

Sad to hear that - have collected Snooker Scene every month for years. It would certainly mark the end of the snooker magazine era - Can remember back years ago there was several on the go during the boom - cue world, world snooker magazine etc

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573591#Comment_119573591

Cue world, that's going back! Remember the old Pot Black magazines from that time too. Also remember how all the main news outlets had dedicated snooker corrs up to around late or mid-90s - Trevor Baxter for the telegraph i think, Clive for the Guardian and Yates for the times of the main ones. Trevor actually ran his own magazine for a while but not sure it lasted that long. In the circumstances, i think it was a remarkable achievement for Clive to last as long as he did, can't imagine it's a very viable project economically in todays climate, particularly doing hard copy.

Joe_ Public

I think this is what happens when there isn't much snooker on - lively debates about formats and Mark Williams seeming to back the idea of a breakaway tour though, as ever with MJW, hard to know whether he's taking the piss or not.

Anyway, the idea of making the Worlds a 128 flat draw event, as Shaun suggests, seems rather far fetched given they've just done the exact opposite with the UK. The BBC has the clout here and can't see they would ever allow that to go ahead, before you even consider the logistical implications of such a change. Keeps everybody talking, though, i suppose.

https://twitter.com/announcerphil/status/1569684880233046023?s=20&t=lRFiBVmrT_ssED1bBCpRAg

Spiderpig92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616039#Comment_119616039

Joe I would go so far as to say it is nonsense! The ranking system exists so that players are rewarded for good/consistent form. The top 16 players have earned the right to take their place in the TV stages. Lets not forget that these elite players were themselves qualifiers at one point or another so everyone has to go through the rigorous qualifiers! The rewards are there for 17-128 if they are playing well enough at that time - look at Shaun himself in 2005, to a lesser extent Terry Griffiths in 1979 and Ding's run to the final in 2016 - there is actually a lot to be said for the momentum built from a solid qualifying run - it is what makes so exciting I guess!

From a commercial point of view could WST / BBC / The Crucible etc risk having the likes of Ronnie / Judd etc start out at 128 in ponds forge, have an off day and get knocked out? Unlikely as it may be but a complete disaster if they weren't taking their place in the Crucible - viewing figures for one would be taking a hit I would imagine!

The whole meddling the world championship has become quite tedious over the last number of years - venue change, format change etc The World Championship is one of the most famous sporting events worldwide - 'if it's not broke don't fix it'

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616183#Comment_119616183

Is it fair? Well, it's probably not being strictly honest, but you're spot on when it comes to commercial realities which are impossible to get away from. Also the tradition and widespread love of all the crucible represents should only be tinkered with extreme caution imo.

I guess the tour structure has, at end of the day, to be a balance between concessions to top players and giving those lower down better opportunities, whether through flat draws or open draws like at British Open. Which is why the change to UK format was a very poor decision i think, too much of a sop to top players. The irony here is that came the season after Shaun got KO'd in R1 and kicked up a fuss about it. Not saying there's any connection there, of course, just an interesting coincidence and a reminder of the broadcasters' influence in shaping formats.

One thing we're definitely learning at the moment is how dependent the tour is on Chinese investment. With the uk economic climate looking a bit grim for the foreseeable, i can see them pushing hard to get the Saudis back and for other middle east markets too.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616183#Comment_119616183

Why Top 16 though?

Why not let the Top 4 go through to the quarter-finals with everyone else fighting for the remaining 4 places. Your same sporting arguments would apply - earned the right, rewarding consistent form, nothing to stop qualifiers climbing the ranks etc. Top 16 is just an arbitrary number, which has become accepted through tradition. Whether it's actually correct or not seems at least worthy of regular debate.

Note : Just to clarify I'm not actually suggesting Top4 as the cut-off, just using it as example to question the merits of the Top 16 cut-off.

Spiderpig92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616437#Comment_119616437

Fair points absolutely - I think the number of seeds at the Worlds has generally been decided by the number of players in the draw at the Crucible which again seems dependent on the number of professionals at the time - eg 1977 - 16 Players in the final stages - 8 Seeds. 1980 & 1981 are strange - 24 Players - 16 Seeds - the current format has been in place since 1982. I guess 32 Players / 16 Seeds is ideal from a draw point of view - the next logical step is 64 players through to final stages and 32 seeded - don't see that ever happening in the crucible era though...

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617188#Comment_119617188

From memory i think the top 8 were seeded into R2 in 81 and 82 was first year they had qualifiers and full complement of 32 players at the crucible.

Genghis

Not a fan of the 128 "flat draw" myself - for any tournament. Difficult for a low-ranked tour player to break-through if by luck of the draw they face someone way up the ranks - especially in the first round (go home with nothing). Better if low ranked players had a fair chance of winning a match or two against each other, a fair chance of gaining some prize money, and maybe build up to challenging higher ranks in later rounds.

Joe_ Public

I think the current structure definitely has lots of flaws, but truth is there'll always be pros and cons to any set up. If you were to seed the top 32 into last 32 of every tournament, say, you're virtually guaranteeing them 30-40,000 ranking points a season, including the proviso of having to win a round to earn points. Plus, they get to avoid qualifiers, less travel and come in fresh. It'd be a very big advantage to have, imo, on top of privileges they already have. Maybe a R1 bye could be a workable compromise.

But I definitely agree with the point that more has to be done for lower ranked players. I see they're now being guaranteed minimum earnings of 20K per season on a trial basis, which is a positive development, but it doesn't help in terms of rankings. I think it would help if there were more tournaments where not so many top players entered and lower down guys had a real chance, but reality is they are almost always chasing points, either seeding cut offs or bonuses, so that doesn't really happen to any great extent. There's a limited pot and sponsors, understandably, want the best players turning up so I think that's a problem and the gap between top and bottom will be very slow to narrow, if at all. If you are a bit unlucky, get a few tough draws and lose a bit of confidence, there are large parts of the season where you hardly get any game time at all and I'm not sure that does the tour any good as a whole.

Joe_ Public

Speaking of lower ranked players, i think this offers a rare and very good insight into the struggles some of these guys go through. IIRC, when Ronnie was on one of his rants about no young talent that time, Louis Heathcote was one of those he singled out as an exception and predicted great things! Not fulfilled as of yet, anyway! He makes a good point about not having kids or a mortgage, got to be a very tough grind for those that do!

https://metro.co.uk/2022/09/15/louis-heathcote-hails-brilliant-guaranteed-income-move-after-hitting-rock-bottom-17384812/

Brian?

Leave the Worlds and Masters alone. UK needs to go back or the old format. It’s just like another Home Nation tournament now.

Do anything you want to the rest of the tour and I won’t care.

Joe_ Public

Second event of Q Tour begins in Brighton today and seems a shame that, apart from Leo Fernandez, there's no irish representation in it, a few from the north alright. I suppose it's hardly worth it for the likes of Ross Bulman to travel for these events when you have over 200 players chasing a mere 2 tour cards at the end of it. Ridiculous set up imo, should be minimum of 4, if not double that.