Moving my kids to another GAA club

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939952#Comment_121939952

This is what I'm trying to establish with you. Valid grounds for a transfer include permanent residence in the catchment area of the club you want to transfer into. That's why I wanted to rule the possibility of a Club C being involved.

Did you supply or were you asked for proof of address at any stage of the process?

By the way, if you really were told he'll have to sit it out for the year, then I'm afraid you were told wrong. I realise this might not sit well with you and it's not what you want, but he'd still be entitled to play this year with the club where he's been playing all along.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939987#Comment_121939987

As regards different rules applying for girls - this is actually one of the things that will be a major challenge in moving towards integration.

As it stands, the GAA, LGFA and Camogie Association all operate different rules re. club catchment areas and transfers. But if there's just one combined Association, there can't be different rules based solely on gender, and so there'll have to be monumental changes re. memberships and transfers for at least one of the current Associations.

But this is one of the more technical things that people tend not to want to consider. Point out that it'll be a challenge, and you run the risk of instantly being accused of being anti-integration, and some sort of "GAA dinosaur".

And by the way, if the South Kerry case you mention is the one I'm thinking of from about 12 years ago, think you'll find the High Court ruled it was a matter for the Kerry County Board to decide.

heftie

Thanks a lot , we've lived in the area for 20 years , my dad farmed here since 1933 , I have a Herd Number , and any amount of paperwork to prove it.Was never asked for any of it.The top man from the CCC lives in the area and was in my yard canvassing for votes 4 years ago.I have submitted maps, and answered every question re 6.2 without any problem.We tick every and I stress every box re connection to the area.Some funny business going on in the County Board apart from asking a 12 year old to sign an appeal form.The optics are not good.Discrimination against a child pure and simple.I have pointed out a number of GAA rules that provide for an appeal / correction of documents where a formality is breached but the GAA in Carlow are looking for problems not solutions.We are being well and truly f__ked over.Any help appreciated

heftie

Re living in catchment area we live 1/2 a kilometre closer to the pitch than the club secretary who has 3 kids in the club.There are 7 kids in the immediate area who play with the club and we live right in the middle of these.

On a side note the was a recent change on the CCC / Hearings Committee ,and the incoming person ( who may not have been formally appointed) rang the chairman of the club asking about my connection to the area.He was put straight on the matter , said he'd ring back.Never did.I heard rumblings that he was told to keep his nose out of it but can't confirm this.

heftie

I contacted Leinster Council and was rang back by a very straight and helpful man.He was very surprised the transfer was rejected given my connection to the area but they cannot meddle in transfer issues.However what is alarming is that Leinster Council insist that a child of 12 sign an appeal form.

heftie

Regarding returning to play with his current club I take your point but then I'd still have to go through this again.Why should my child have to suffer this because the Carlow CCC /HC didnt or wouldn't do their job right

What guarantee would he have next year , whether he sits it out or not ????From what I gather sitting it out for a year doesn't work once you've played u12/13.Also our own circumstances hopefully wont have changed and we'll still be living in the same place, in the catchment area.

Uncle Pierre

Have to admit I'm losing track here at this stage, so to try advise you, a couple of questions to hopefully clarify things -

• It seems there was a paper transfer application form used in the first place? Asking because transfers applications are supposed to be submitted these days on the Foireann system online. However, it can still be done "the old-fashioned way", so long as the details are inputted into Foireann afterwards. So if it was indeed a paper form, who signed it?
• What exact reason did they give for refusing the transfer?
• You then submitted an appeal against the decision to refuse a transfer. Can you confirm that this appeal was lodged with the County Hearings Committee? And also please confirm that this is the form where the issue arises around you signing it rather than your son signing it?

Daniel son

Its all so ballygobackwards.

Schwiiing

All this is best avoided by avoiding the GAA in general. Tip along to your local soccer, rugby, karate or tiddlywinks club and forget about joining the most backward, inbred set up in all of christendom. They rant on and on about inclusivity when they're the most exclusive organisation going.

There isnt a soccer or rugby club in the country that hasn't had an issue with the nearest GAA club acting the bollocks changing training or match times to clash with matches to keep any dual players in line.

You only have to look at the Kyle Hayes incident to see what kind of people find themselves in the upper echelons of their organisation. Lots of 'Do you know who I am' types.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944256#Comment_121944256

I had a similar situation with my son, but the transfer went through. Still meant him missing out as he couldn't continue with previous team because of bullying and had to wait for the next year.

heftie

Transfer was submitted in old paper format,signed by myself (parent ) and club secretary and submitted by the club secretary (not signed by my son.)

Form accepted by CCC

It was rejected on the rule 6.2 TO 2023 by CCC

Appealed it TO Hearings Ctee and signed it in same way as transfer request.Ruled out of order because my son didnt sign it citing the appellant has to sign it , he's 12 years old.😏

This was rubber stamped by Leinster Council

I still contend that club secretary/ myself are the appellant as all communications were through her and all responses were to her.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946348#Comment_121946348

So, can you not just resubmit it, signed by him and co-signed by you?

heftie

I could try it I suppose but I've been told he has to sit it out and reapply next year ,expecting a different result would be optimistic

In this day and age what 12 year old signs anything? Unheard of I'd say

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946348#Comment_121946348

Thanks.

I'm still struggling to understand how you say it was rejected under Rule 6.2, because as previously stated, Rule 6.2 is just definitions. Rules 6.3 (Attachment to First Club) and 6.4 (Transfers Within County) would appear to be the relevant ones instead.

So, can you please explain in plain English rather than reference to Rule number what were the exact grounds they cited for refusing the transfer? If the situation really is as you've outlined, I honestly don't see any valid grounds for refusing it.

However, on the matter of signing the appeal form, the relevant Rule is 6.4(f), and it's quite clear that it must be signed by the player himself:

I'd contend myself that it should instead say something like "shall be signed by the appellant player (or a parent or guardian if the appellant player is under 18 years old)", but it doesn't actually say that. Leinster are therefore correct in their interpretation and application of this rule.

On the suggestion of just trying again this year - chances are that the deadline for transfer applications this year has already passed. I'm in Wexford, and our deadline for underage transfer applications is the last day of February. I don't know what Carlow's is, but I'd be surprised if they allowed them up to the end of March, because that would cause a delay in grading teams for competitions for the year.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946538#Comment_121946538

You can decide to make this all about the principle of the thing and deny your kid a chance to play, even though you say it's really important to him.

Or you can just go along with the rules as they are and re-submit with his signature.

It sounds like a no-brainer tbh

heftie

They just cited " rule 6.2 Treoir Oifiguil 2023 , that's it! , it was up to us to interpret it after this so I interpreted it as being as you said " atrachment to first club, catchment area , relevant connection etc the whole shebang!! Cannot understand it ourselves.

heftie

Thanks for the help.I work in Wx would be interested in meeting up if that's possible.thought that being from area , living in the area would give us a good chance but it turns out to be the opposite.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946929#Comment_121946929

I really don't know then. You'd have been entitled to ask for a more detailed explanation, but that ship has probably sailed by now.

Again, if the circumstances are as you've outlined, I really don't understand why a transfer wasn't granted.

I do understand why the appeal form wasn't accepted, because it wasn't in accordance with the rule (but I repeat my view that the rule should be different, to allow parents/guardians to sign on behalf of underage players). However, what they could have done on the QT is say "listen, your appeal has a good chance, but the wrong person signed it, so we can't deal with it - throw it in again quickly with the right signature and we'll deal with it as though that's the way it was all along".

With transfer applications deadline surely passed by now, and it being way too late to submit a fresh appeal, I'm afraid it really is a case of just having to wait until next year and then try again, bearing all these things in mind. It's a decision for yourself whether your son continues to play with the other club in the meantime, or sits out the year.

I won't offer to meet you to discuss things further because there's really no more I can tell you. Sorry.

heftie

No bother thanks

heftie

Yep we move on , just a pity it worked out this way we'll find something else to do .

The GAA slogan " where we all belong" is a soundbite and only that.

heftie

Yep you're dead right.Better to have him hurling.its not about me.But we were fu_ked over by the GAA.

Mite try the cricket!!

heftie

Yep yer right, we move on but we were f-cked over by a bunch of illiterate amateurs,and the kids suffer, if this was a business they'd be sacked longtime ago,my problem is how do I ever get away from this club?

Sheep breeder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946643#Comment_121946643

Think this is where the problem lies with the signature on the form and the club secretary should have known better, it’s a good few years since was involved in transfers and attendance at county, but the player always signed the forms and they stick to that,

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944248#Comment_121944248

This whole thing is nuts. The GAA are a farce.

heftie

Yep a complete farce

heftie

Yep fair point , but initial transfer request was accepted , shouldn't have needed an appeal given his circumstances but because of another GAA mistake a child has to pay the price and put the onus on us to point that out , and then hide behind a formality to exclude him, very fkn shoddy

heftie

Thanks pure farce

heftie

He's 12 years old !

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948314#Comment_121948314

OK, I'm sorry to be blunt here but yeah, he's 12 years old, but I presume you are not.

You need to start acting like the responsible adult here and just move things along in the most efficient and least troublesome way possible.

The county board have their rules, just go along with it, it's not a big deal. The people in the club he wants to transfer to are not going to bend over backwards to help on this, they've a whole other club to worry about and they're not going to take on the county board for you.

Giving the admins in his current club a load of abuse isn't going to help either. You've now named these people on a public message board and called them all sorts of names (as well as making yourself and your child personally identifiable), so I'm going to guess your direct interactions haven't been plain sailing either. Imagine if someone shows this thread to the secretary of the club, how is he/she going to react to that?

So swallow your pride, remember who you're supposed to be doing this for, and just get on with it.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121946643#Comment_121946643

The problem is that a 12-year old's signature is not legally valid, as s/he is a minor.

There is also the concept that if a child signs up to a GAA club, that they are not of the age to understand that this means they are binding themselves to that club, so the GAA rules regarding transfers of those under 18 are probably legally unenforceable.