The Pushback against Leftism

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238311#Comment_119238311

What? In what way is stopping illegal immigration. Putting Irish people first. And calling out nonsense for the nonsense it is, isolating from the international community?

That’s quite the leap.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238345#Comment_119238345

There is nothing right-wing about Fine Gael and Fianna Fail.

At best, they're centrists who lean socially to the left.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238351#Comment_119238351

It's nonsense. The Irish people only get put first when it serves white supremacy. Then the homeless, the elderly, the disabled, the vulnerable, etc can go screw themselves. Seen it time and time again.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238328#Comment_119238328

I took it as a reference to “Common sense Conservatives”, the type of idiot who is glued to GBNews 🙄

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238349#Comment_119238349

Indeed you did. I saw that response as well.

I'm not going to enjoy getting old I think.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238335#Comment_119238335

Same old tired arguments.

I’m not worried about “foreigners”. I’m all for reverting the EU back to the EEC and keeping free movement. I’m all for legal, vetted immigration to bring people in from foreign countries to fill jobs that need filling.

I’m against filling the country with uneducated, welfare tourists, who contribute nothing and expect everything. **** hell, only a few years ago, breaking the law WAS a real problem and people expected those that did it to face consequences. Now it’s, poor crathur, make sure he has a house within four months. Overstayed your visa? You poor divil, sure you can stay anyway. It’s unsustainable.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238370#Comment_119238370

that is a fair point.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238377#Comment_119238377

So back to the good old days of the 1970s? I was there, they weren't so great.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238377#Comment_119238377

More importantly, the evidence backs up your claim.

Almost 50 percent of Irish people believe immigration to be a big problem in Ireland, according to a new survey. While 53 percent don’t agree, some 44 percent of those surveyed believe the Irish government should be making efforts to restrain the influx of immigrants to the country.

Poll suggests people in Ireland would support Trump’s immigration bans.

The far-left always talk about how it's only a fringe minority of extremists that are concerned about immigration.

Polls show that this is very much a major issue within the population.

And this is what we mean when we talk about a pushback. The people who are just ignored or thrown to the wolves with labels attached are saying enough is enough and we deserve to have our opinions heard just as much as everyone else.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238357#Comment_119238357

....hahaha you gotta love the more right leaning folks of this world!

again, ffg's fundamental political and economic ideologies are more right leaning, generally favoring the more plutocratic elements in our society, hence polices that protect these entities interests, such as the value of their assets, such as property and land. yes the political left have also been engaging in similar polices, hence why theyre virtually completely lost, also noting, ffg have been the main government parities, since the creation of the state!

yes, socially, ffg have indeed been moving more towards centrist/left leaning policies, but also considering the above!

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238377#Comment_119238377

I've no idea what's got you to the state where you're ranting incoherently about such fantasy problems.

What are you doing or going to do about it?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238360#Comment_119238360

Jesus christ - the white supremacists are already here! Whats next on the buzzword bingo? the neo-nazis?

Who knew that advocating for a common sense immigration policy (reducing numbers coming in when we are at full employment with no houses, no public transport capacity, no hospital capacity, very little schools capacity etc) is now the realm of white supremacy! You couldnt write it, the delusion here is something else

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238395#Comment_119238395

Mentions of the 70s: 0

Well done, you are unable to debate.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238403#Comment_119238403

The "concern" begins and ends with being able to spout racist guff and nothing else. The screeching not alter this. That's before we get to the conspiracy nonsense about the EU, alleged NGOs, reverse vampires and whatever else is upsetting the OP.

growleaves

"Conservatism" has no centre of gravity.

What we call a conservative is an economic liberal and free-marketeer who opposes socialism and oversees a public world of legal bureaucracy which regards human beings as abstractions or members of symbolic groups.

This "conservative" is swept along on a tide of media-driven social liberalism which s/he has no strong motivation to mount a principled opposition against.

Open borders provides cheap labour for big business and doubles up as a way of buying off left-wing opponents.

Economic losers in the capitalist system and victims of boom-bust cycles are placated and bought off with welfare. Long-term welfare claimants become clients of the state with no reason to make trouble for their patrons.

That is "conservatism" in Ireland as far as I can tell.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238396#Comment_119238396

It sounds as if the big parties have made a huge mistake then - they have left the way open for the 'ireland first' type parties to continue the gains they have been making in the last few elections. Oh, wait, they've actually been getting miniscule votes.

I think the flaw is the leap you've made from '44% of the people support a harder position on immigration' to 'polls show its a major issue'. Just because 44% of the people support something doesn't mean it's close to the forefront of their mind when voting.

I'm sure 44% of the people would support red-squirrel habitats or cleaner pavements, but it doesn't follows that it's a major issue.

sameoldname

Double post

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238430#Comment_119238430

One of the reasons why many people in this country feel a pushback is necessary is because they're tired of being labelled for the crime of having a perfectly respectable opinion.

Typically, the far-left operate by trying to censor debate by smearing their political opponents with labels - to "other" them, as if they're the political equivalent of leprosy.

Already in this thread, you've made reference to white supremacists and racists. We've even had references to North Korea-style isolation and the 1970s.

And some people wonder why a pushback is necessary.

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238377#Comment_119238377

Hold on now. What is the actual issue because you wrote a lot there, half of which is completely incompatible with the other half. Illegal migrants in this country don't get houses or welfare or anything from the state without a PPS number so I'm not sure why you're claiming that it's a problem?

This country as it stands is one of the most highly educated in the world so it's hardly "filled" with the uneducated despite your claims.

I know more than one person in jail at the moment, they weren't given a free house, just a free cell. I'm really not sure what you're talking about here.

As for overstaying visa's, I have no figures on that. Maybe you could post some up?

bladespin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238184#Comment_119238184

The 'Conservative' Government parties, FF and FG in the main are considered centre right really and to be clear, right wing in this context refers to economic policy and not much else.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238462#Comment_119238462

So you haven’t heard of Rodericks 4 month own door scheme for anyone who arrives here and shouts asylum.

Have you missed the fact that once someone’s asylum claim is rejected, they take years tying up the legal system with appeal after appeal after appeal, housed, educated, medical and legal bills paid for by us?

Have you not noticed the huge amount of failed “asylum” seekers who then get leave to remain because after years of spurious appeals, they have put down “roots” here??

Or our “Justice” Ministers glee a few months back at the fact that there had been zero deportations since she got the role 2 years ago??

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238486#Comment_119238486

Right, so you are worried about foreigners?

The asylum process in this country takes too long, I doubt you'd find anyone who'd argue with that. Take care of that and they'd be out of here all the quicker. Also, there was a pandemic that might have put a halt to deportations. Anyway, again. If this is one of your big concerns in life, you have it easy.

HalloweenJack

I find breaking politics into the old Left/Right divide is quite simplistic (and I'm very much guilty of it myself).

I think what we have seen from the traditional Right is them adapting their social policies to more open ideas that the whole world seems to be embracing (which, tradtionally, and in the minds of several prevalent posters, are Left-wing ideas).

Look at our own recent history. Our last Taoiseach was a homosexual and son of an immigrant. If acceptance of such characteristics were solely held by the Left, then how did he come to lead a traditional Right party, especially in a country that has always given parties from the Right the main role in government?

I think society as a whole is becoming more socially open. This isn't just in Ireland; look at the legalisation of drugs, same-sex marriage, abortion, recognition of rights for all kinds of minorities that is going on in a big part of the world.

However, I feel that economically things are getting more conservative. Less things are being given out for free, things are becoming more expensive while wages aren't increasing in line. Capitalism and consumerism is going into overdrive in a bid to stay ahead of the looming recession.

I feel that the traditional Right has reckoned that by loosening up on social positions and stirring up debate, they are distracting us from economic matters while at the same time trying to win over others by being seen to be progressive (in Europe, at least; America seems to be more polarised than ever). They also do this publicly while in the backgeoubd they are staying put on some of their more entrenched political positions.

And it seems to be working. There's plenty of debate about transgender issues and immigrants yet there seems to be less attention given to what should be done about the financial mess the world is in at the moment.

And I would argue that those on the traditional Left don't help matters much by getting drawn in debate on social issues while probably being happy to avoid debate on economic issues.

TLDR: Society as a whole is becoming more open-minded, in general. The real issues to be concerned about are economic ones but these debates about social issues are consuming far more time and energy than they should and i think both the traditional Left and Right are perfectly happy with that.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058251407/the-pushback-against-leftism

We are actually seen is the emergence of a very entitled and self centered society where politicians have started to follow the crowd rather than show leadership. There was always a tendency for politicians to say what they feel would get them elected, in the last ten years it has become completely detached from reality. I remember a time in Irish politics when the opposition party were actually expecting to provide costings for their proposals.

When it was known that Brian Lenehan attempt to contact the President about the dissolution of the Dail, it cost him an election and was all over the British Isles papers for days. And yet when a British politician dismissed the role of their ethics watch dog on the basis that people didn’t know him and didn’t care on national tv, the headlines didn’t even last a day and didn’t even make the headlines in some cases. That is how far we have travelled.

You are not seen a push back, you are seeing a breaking of society in factions where my interests and entitlements and those of my faction trump those of my community, society and my country. There were some basic grounds and common decency between left and right that has evaporated and I expect we will pay dearly for it. When you get to the point that it is acceptable to argue that my right to a house, not housing, trumps the life of a refugee who is not here by choice, society is in serious trouble. Because it won’t stop at the life of a refugee.

I won’t be around to see it, but I doubt the UK will exist in 30 years time nor the US in 50.

joe40

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238466#Comment_119238466

The only political party coming close to your ideals in Ireland is the Irish national party. We all know what their electoral record is.

There is no pushback necessary, because Ireland is not a far Left country. Plenty of issues that need sorted but idiots and liars like your beloved Farage are not needed here.

2ndcoming

'The Pushback Against Leftism' would be an ideal name for this forum most of the time.

Or even better - 'The Imagined Threats Against The Absolute Hegemony Of The Late Middle Aged Irish Male'

C. Mods: Pat Kenny and Niall Boylan

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238442#Comment_119238442

Modern conservatism exists to hoard wealth, power and influence within the hands of a tiny minority of people, almost exclusively old, white men. That's it.

The victimhood narrative is what they've trotted out since they've seen that people have become more liberal with regards to LGBT rights, women's rights, racism, etc. When you're absurdly privileged, criticism and debate become attacks.

Time was, you convinced the lower classes that they were better than the foreigners and took their votes accordingly. The problem is they've gone too far and too many aren't falling for their indoctrination. The system has excluded too many people so we see more questions being asked of its legitimacy.

Instead of evolving, conservatism has devolved to screeching, wailing and crying. It offers no solutions or answers, just privilege for the 0.1%.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238523#Comment_119238523

I’m worried about illegal immigration, not foreigners.

How would they be out of here quicker? They don’t go at all. There is no political will whatsoever to remove these illegals, we have sex offenders released from prison and told to leave the country, 8 months later he’s still walking the streets and our gormless minister of justice says deportations of sex offenders are “a complex matter”.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238540#Comment_119238540

When it was known that Brian Lenehan attempt to contact the President about the dissolution of the Dail, it cost him an election and was all over the British Isles papers for days.

I seem to remember the issue people had was that he lied about contacting the president during the presidential election.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238541#Comment_119238541

The Irish National Party are a racist party, they are nowhere near my ideals. Same old jaded arguments. You just forgot Trump for a Bingo!