The Pushback against Leftism

olestoepoke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242613#Comment_119242613

The term cognitive dissonance is used to describe the mental discomfort that results from holding two conflicting beliefs, values, or attitudes. People tend to seek consistency in their attitudes and perceptions, so this conflict causes feelings of unease or discomfort

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242633#Comment_119242633

The modern left are the New Jesuit Priests, largely middle class, wealthy, highly moralistic, imbued with a righteous conviction that they are battling evil and sin and that they are a force for good.

The left used be dominated by the working class, hard to imagine it now.

Every year it becomes more Middle and upper middle class.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242629#Comment_119242629

Serious criticism of the Irish NGO sector will not come from the Irish Times Group or Independent Newspapers.

Yet you won't consider criticism from outsider web magazines

So where and from whom is criticism of NGOs that you deem legitimate meant to come from?

olestoepoke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242629#Comment_119242629

Scroll back the last 3 or 4 pages and there is enough evidence. It's abundantly clear that no amount of evidence will convince someone with their heads ignorantly in the sand. Where are your counters? Where is the debate, the increases mentioned, the literal video of a UN official laughing at us the many many posts, you have countered none of them. You just keep responding with one or two sentence jibes, it really is like talking to a wall.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242487#Comment_119242487

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't we criticise both successive government policy regarding NGOs and the NGOs themselves?

magicbastarder

fair point, but often the people complaining about the proliferation of NGOs are not the sort of people who welcome the government increasing its reach.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242672#Comment_119242672

When I read comments like this, absolutely. You can't scream MSM for years and then expect me to take Grift.ie as gospel.

Bobtheman

I agree that most people are against virtue signaling and issues that only resonate with a tiny minority of people.

I have never met a trans person. What % of the population are they??

Leo and Simon will be in a party of less than 25 seats if they don't make a bigger effort on housing.

All the LGBT votes won't save them.

Im not denying they have serious issues but they are way down the list of the avg voter

Fr Tod Umptious

How come every time I glance at this thread title I think it's

"The Pushback against Letrim"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242693#Comment_119242693

Except that the people complaining about the NGOs would probably (I'm guessing, just as you are with their "sort") be happy with the numbers being cut by 60/70% with them being consolidated. Not necessarily the increase of government reach.. although, considering how dependent many of the NGOs are on government funding, the reach is already there. I think one of the major objections is the amount of funding being allocated, which would be better spent by having less such organisations (they'd also have less market competition, and likely able to support themselves better without govt support).

Oh, and government reach continues to grow regardless of the NGOs through the establishment and reinforcement of regulatory bodies and connected legislation.

olestoepoke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242702#Comment_119242702

Nobody in their right mind would take Gript as gospel. But someone a lillte less ignorant would read it and the many many posts/articles presented and attempt a somewhat intelligent counter as opposed to focussing one less than credible source and harp on about it.

Did Gript or any other article presented falsify figures? Please counter. Is the video of the UN official laughing at us Deep Faked? Enough of your one or two line responses, let's hear your argument against the claim that we have a problem with NGOs in Ireland. I'll get the popcorn.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242758#Comment_119242758

Your claim, your burden of proof. I'm not spoonfeeding you. I'll believe evidence, not opinion.

olestoepoke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242762#Comment_119242762

Another two sentence jibe, very disappointing. The thread is full of articles, figures etc. you attempted to counter none of them, not one. I'll put the popcorn away so.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242762#Comment_119242762

A number of posters have provided independent links apart from those you've dismissed and you've ignored their posts.. So your request for evidence means nothing.

Dismiss and deflect. Throw in a few claims of racism and xenophobia, avoid defending your claims, and.... then start again.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242775#Comment_119242775

Nothing then. As usual.

landofthetree

https://twitter.com/JRD0000/status/1540107462946209793

SF support FG policy yet again. Although they will probably say the 3billion spend on Ukrainian refugees isn't enough.

rossie1977

Ireland has always leaned left!! Yes the Catholic Church dominated Ireland of 1920s-1990s where being homosexual was illegal, contraception was banned, books, magazines and movies that challenged the deeply conservative thought process were banned. We were last western nation to introduce abortion and that was due to the power of the people, we had a f**king blasphemy law until 2020.

People here are watching too much Tucker Carlson and Charlie Kirk here methinks...

Ash.J.Williams

great album though, John Lydon played open up at his gig here last week ....savage

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242791#Comment_119242791

Like I said, just because the country wasn't a satellite state of the USSR, doesn't mean it was right wing ,a country can be socially conservative yet economically and ideologically left ,the Catholic Church was always left wing economically, self reliance of the typically American prospector ( keep the government out of my way )mentality is a traditionally Protestant attitude so this might explain the lack of libertarian tradition

Push back against the left while a left wing party is the biggest in the polls for years? Ok.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242814#Comment_119242814

The Catholic Church always seemed very right wing to me, particularly in Ireland when it came to things like the Mother and Baby scheme which ended Noel Browne's career.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242762#Comment_119242762

I have you a professional business website where they explain to high level executives the ins and outs of the Irish NGO system and it’s budgets. That is not some “edgy” publication. Nothing will be good enough for you because you are entrenched in your view.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242833#Comment_119242833

Classic Catholicism has always been left wing economically which is why I said a country can be socially conservative yet economically left

rossie1977

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242538#Comment_119242538

Sinn Féin are a populist party. They will change their political stance based on what they feel are the prevailing winds on the ground.

Sinn Féin still tout the Catholic roots and it wouldn't take much for them to suddenly shift politically.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242407#Comment_119242407

He wouldn't get Presidential nomination as Democrat being gay but America is a country partly founded by a deeply conservative sect of christianity

Republican party closest comparison in the British Isles are the DUP. Democrats the Tories.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242350#Comment_119242350

Immigration is not a left or right issue..

China, North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, all far left and probably the hardest countries on Earth to immigrate to.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242791#Comment_119242791

Fidel Castro put homosexuals in dungeons and made them do hard labour.

Prior to the 1960s most Marxists considered homosexuality a form of bourgeois degeneracy.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242854#Comment_119242854

I accepted the 5.5 billion Euro. No issue there. Where I draw the line is OpEds from proselytizing right wing sites.

If its such a serious problem, what are you doing about it?

rossie1977

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242814#Comment_119242814

We weren't ideologically left at any time during past century. Public services were cut dramatically from when the British were here. Our rail network is great example of this. Roads, schools, universities, hospitals were pretty much ignored until the 1990s.

Taxes were high for ordinary people yes but taxes were 75-90% for public during Eisenhower and Nixon runs as President in the US and nobody would consider them left wing.

Even today our public services are being cut to the bone in my part of country. Fire station has shut, post office gone, all the Garda stations outside the main town closed, public transport cut back dramatically.

Athlone bus station now lies completely empty, a big shiny building with no buses.

Ireland outside Dublin is basically becoming France outside Paris

ShamanRing

Nice big words there, acd.

Madeoface

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242634#Comment_119242634

Last good thing John Lydon did too on there....I had to hit Spotify straight away, it's been years.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242762#Comment_119242762

You clearly have no intention of believing anything. Columbo and Shelock Holmes could team up to lay the evidence at your feet and you wouldn't even look at it.

But then from the guy who's stock answer to anything awkward is "what are you doing about it", nobody should be surprised.

ancapailldorcha

From one of the links above:

According to Benefacts' Nonprofit Sector Analysis 2020, Ireland's nonprofit sector has at least 32,841 Organisations, 165,075 Employees, 86,481 Directors/Trustees, €14.2bn Turnover and receives €5.9bn in State Funding. Nonprofit organisations which include NGOs, Social Enterprises, Clubs, Societies, Associations and Religious Bodies play a crucial role in society. Such entities are to be found in every part of the country, transcending major sectors such as Health, Education, Housing, Social Services, the Environment, Religion, the Arts and Politics, to name but a small number.

I see no reason why this can't be taken at face value.

The issue is that people take this sort of thing and then fabricate a victimhood narrative where NGO's are in control of the government and the silent majority is being oppressed. There is no evidence for this.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243015#Comment_119243015

No. You've your hook based on reality and then your conspiracy theory with no evidence. Then you trot out this excuse when said conspiracy theory is questioned.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243039#Comment_119243039

So you believe every 152 people in Ireland need an NGO for them??

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238280#Comment_119238280

To be fair it would be hard to name them since there are so many.. there may well be an NGO for the NGO's that feel left out.

Almost all policy, particularly social policy has had its genesis in an NGO.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243060#Comment_119243060

Where did I say that?

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243050#Comment_119243050

I haven't trotted out anything, that was my first post in the thread. As a reader though it was just very very clear how disingenuous you are posting.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242997#Comment_119242997

Ireland outside Dublin is basically becoming France outside Paris

I agree, although it's the focus on 3/4 population hubs and the remainder of the country is left to rot.. with the population moving to the "cities". Exactly the same as what happened with France, although with the French, they're going to opposite way now, because the cities are too expensive to live in. Eventually, population sizes reach a point where cities become unmanageable because they weren't designed/planned for such numbers in the modern sense. There are large numbers of people leaving Paris now, moving to the South of France where the cost of living (and housing) is more reasonable. The same thing will happen with Dublin, and Dublin is already struggling to deal with existing numbers.

Athlone is light-years better than it was when I was growing up... but most public services have been cut back considerably. The few newish local public bus routes are a nice addition, but it feels like the town is being left behind, rather than boosting the value it could provide to the overall country.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243039#Comment_119243039

the silent majority is being oppressed

Before you made that claim (a few pages back), what posters said anything like it? You're the only one pumping that claim, and then, using it as a way to dismiss others concerns.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243060#Comment_119243060

Why wouldn't they? Football clubs are NGOs, Residents associations, Men's Sheds, rugby teams, bridge clubs. If anything I'd say the number is low.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242693#Comment_119242693

And right there is cognitive dissonance inherent in the "NGO argument" from a certain quarter. They're usually for, ahem, "small government", but whinge when government offload their responsibilities to an outsourced private concern.

In saying that, there is a problem involved in having so many of these organisations operating in such a small area. But, frankly, they are all doing the job that a proper functioning government should be in the first place. In fact, what NGO's mostly do is pick up the pieces that result from the various failures of government.

Frankly, I would rather have a government that tackled the issues that they choose to offload to these private entities instead of just chucking their responsibilities over the wall.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243079#Comment_119243079

I'd ask where I've been disingenuous but there'd be no point. I've been insulted on this thread simply for asking questions. I don't live in Ireland so I'd no idea until today how many NGO's there are or how much government money they receive. All that I've gotten here is a refresher on why factchecking is essential.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242201#Comment_119242201

Most of that budget is going towards essential services for people with disabilities, older people, people with addiction, homeless people. The State uses NGOs to avoid paying decent salaries to the staff involved.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238201#Comment_119238201

No point of engaging with someone who does not know their left from their right.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242269#Comment_119242269

Look at their annual reportS and charities regulator reports. It’s all in the public domain.

olestoepoke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242854#Comment_119242854

Astonishing ignorance, and from a moderator.

olestoepoke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242939#Comment_119242939

A ridiculously childish response, what are you doing about it? What can any one person do about major issues in their country? Vote a certain way, join an likeminded organisation.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243144#Comment_119243144

Exactly the sort of comment that makes taking your opinion in good faith impossible and necessitates factchecking. I've no interest in responding to you and your triggered drivel any further.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243159#Comment_119243159

Search his posts and you'll see its his default way of shutting down a discussion.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243111#Comment_119243111

Yeah, we have a significant homelessness problem which has visibly worsened over the last few years, and multiple charities have been set up to try to deal with it. The root cause of this development is not with the charities.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243198#Comment_119243198

Ah, but then you see you'll have a portion of the NGO whingers that will pivot to their other position and will tell you that there is no "homelessness problem".