Irish birthrate slumps 22% in a decade

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161159#Comment_119161159

No I'm not dismissing it. I'm just pointing out that the proportion of foreign-born is not a very meaningful measure. I am not dismissing anything because of our small population size. Any argument is about the factors behind population change, rather then the absolute population size

Amadan Dubh

Couples in their late 20s/early 30s need to stop buying dogs and get into bed. It's embarrassing that they go down the dog route then treat it like a baby.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161551#Comment_119161551

...maybe they can only truly afford a dog and not a child, and whats wrong with turning this need into caring for an animal!

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161399#Comment_119161399

Our current state has fuck all to do with "socialism". It's neo-liberal policy that drives the failures of where we are at present. Idiotic adherence to boom and bust faux "economies" that only promise recessions at some juncture.

Until we (and Europe in general) get off of that particular gig, this will be the pattern for some time to come. But it's already become normalised in the minds of some younger folk, because they've never known any different.

TheTruth89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058248801/irish-birthrate-slumps-22-in-a-decade

Its a life choice...a mortgage or a child for most people.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161551#Comment_119161551

What if they just don't want kids?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161565#Comment_119161565

Fantastically wrong, again.

Free market capitalism unshackled the West from the comparative stagnation that came before it.

So what if some recessions come here and there? That's often the fault of those within the free market system and the decisions they've made, but not an inevitable consequence of the free market principle itself.

The cure to badly implemented free market capitalism isn't socialism or Marxism, it's better free market capitalism.

Look at what socialism and Marxism has done to the countries unfortunate enough to live under its hoof.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161591#Comment_119161591

You, literally, have bugger all to say that's worth listening to.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161599#Comment_119161599

A stock "answer" from the hard-left; rather than engage, they point the finger with dismissal and abuse.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161591#Comment_119161591

....whats the craic with free market libertarians, and not truly understanding the history of capitalism, and then going on some sort of rant over alternatives!

I always think about Nigerians re: population trends.

There are 216 million Nigerians, and they are growing at a current rate of 2.5%.

By 2050, there will be more Nigerians on the planet than the US population. 401 million Nigerians.

By 2100, there will be again, almost double that, at a projected 793 million Nigerians.

Nigerians will become the second-largest nationality, just behind India.

And that's just one African country!

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161818#Comment_119161818

....or maybe none of that will happen, if we manage to blow the sh1t out of ourselves, and/or completely annihilate the planet, i.e. dont be worrying about the foreigners folks, we ve much bigger fish to be frying!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161551#Comment_119161551

This is so true..

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161856#Comment_119161856

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161559#Comment_119161559

...............

Amadan Dubh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161867#Comment_119161867

Maybe they should cut down on the dog food and avo toast to focus on having a child then. My issue is with those that will ultimately have kids and are in a reasonably good position financially, yet they get a dog when it is so clear, glaringly so, that one or both of them wants a baby and for some reason they won't make one.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162174#Comment_119162174

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161559#Comment_119161559

....was unaware of this new craze of dog food and avocados, sounds manky, but shur whatever you re into!

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119160169#Comment_119160169

6.25 per hour comes to over a grand a month and indeed most parents do not have the choice but to suck it up - where they end up working for a relative pittance once childcare has been paid for.

This is all a choice though - our State has chosen these crèche ratios, our State has let insurance, rents etc for crèche get out of control, successive governments have pursued anti-family policies. And that's all it can be described as, anti-family, when someone earning 65k, who is in the top 20% of earners, is looking at his wage and wondering if he'd be better off giving up work to look after his two small children rather than continue in employment.

Is it any wonder our birth rate is collapsing.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162379#Comment_119162379

I know, I calculated the €6.25 from another poster saying they pay €2500 a month for childcare for 2 kids.

Anyone who is working for a pittance after paying childcare needs to consider not working, it's possibly more tax efficient to do so and their children get raised by the parent rather than the creche.

Why would somebody commute, work 40 hours a week for someone else, deal with office/work politics etc to clear a couple of hundred quid after the creche fees are met? Makes no sense.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162393#Comment_119162393

They might need that pittance to keep their household ticking over, they might not be able to afford a break in service for their pension etc.

That's all beside the point though which was that for a family with two small children in crèche, a mortgage or rent and household to run will be stretched to the pin of their collar with a household income of €130k

That's where our country is at now.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162393#Comment_119162393

Might not have economic reasons. Might enjoy working more than being around their offspring.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162444#Comment_119162444

And by transferring some of their tax bands to their spouse they can likely make up the pittance and have a similar net income.

Also the prevalence of 2 working parents has massively contributed to the dramatic increase in house prices. Maybe a flip back to the days of 1 working parent and 1 stay at home parent would reduce the cost of living in this country.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162446#Comment_119162446

I would suspect you are correct

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119157808#Comment_119157808

Or we could do like our ancestors and lie on top of them and wait for the filth to come.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158972#Comment_119158972

And that's just the fellas

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162487#Comment_119162487

Not sure what approach you take to your love life, but mine usually doesn't involve me waiting on the Guards to arrive.

Murph85

Its memtal how 90,000 homes were constructed per year towards the end of the Celtic tiger and now we aren't even building one third of that. With the population probably up by one million...

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162174#Comment_119162174

I wanted a dog but I realized that I couldn't commit to walking the dog and training it and I wanted to be able to go off on weekends without paying for dog care or foisting my dog on friends or family. So I got a cat instead.

I sure lots of people make the same compromise with not having the responsibility of a baby and getting a dog instead.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058248801/irish-birthrate-slumps-22-in-a-decade

I've scanned through the thread.

The relative slump in births reflects our history.

There was a baby boom in the late 70s who had their babies 30 years later around 2010.

There was a relative slump in births by the early 90s reflected in the fewer births around 2020.

This boom and bust goes back to the 50s when an entire generation left and had their babies in Birmingham and Boston rather than Birr and Ballydehob. The slumps are their grand children not being born here around 1990 and great grandchildren not being born here now.

Various other factors will even this out over time and make it less pronounced.

Miadhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162537#Comment_119162537

You get your business done long before the shades arrive.

francois

The world changes, people move on, nobody but scared old men care

freemickey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162689#Comment_119162689

Why don't you ask young people how they feel about the housing situation?

Why don't you ask them why so many are dropping out of third level education?

Why don't you ask them how they feel about sustainability of their futures versus the pyramid scheme of migration?

And so on.

The world changes, yes, but are young people loving it as much as you imply? No chance, it's fantasy land.

It's all well and good to mention cripplingly dead end notions, such as the implication that only "old men" are "scared", but guess what, the old guys are set up, it's the young who are paying, it's the young who have every genuine reason to be worried. As if you didn't know that.

They'll be speaking about your idealogy in the future, and it won't be kind.

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162689#Comment_119162689

can you apply that logic to climate change, pandemics, Russia invading and threatening nuclear war etc?

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161052#Comment_119161052

The immigration population leap in Ireland is remarkeable, and given problems seen in other countries with mass migration, I think people have overall responded well in terms of tolerance and welcomes.

I wouldn’t “expect” a high number of foreign born people though. Ireland has no history of serious immigration before the Celtic Tiger in the late 90s. Unless you count the ulster plantations and so forth. Ireland was not a wealthy country until recently, emigration was more common.

the lack of public discussion about this, how and where we plan housing schools roads etc, especially with estimate the the population will continue growing for another year. Added to all that, catching up with the negative birth rates of Western Europe

rossie1977

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161818#Comment_119161818

Africa is next continent to see major population growth as Europe did in 18th century and Asia in 19th. Nigeria will be most populous country by far in Africa by 2100.

rossie1977

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119157995#Comment_119157995

What country is encouraging mass immigration?

Pretty much every western nation including Ireland aren't following the agreed international laws regarding asylum seekers even

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162689#Comment_119162689

Actually, I'd say that we're victims of a certain level of social conditioning, due to the favouritism shown by RTE (which oddly remains the primary source of media for most Irish people), the influence of American woke/PC/multiculturalism in education, and the agendas of our political parties. There's a general apathy towards dealing with a variety of social issues, reinforced by comments like yours.. so why seek to shutdown debate on such topics? What does it cost you to stay withhold your negative judgment?

You see, we should care about the future of our nation. It shouldn't matter if someone is young, middle aged or old, but we should be expressing our concerns over issues such as these. After all, what's the point of living in a democratic system if people aren't informed and don't care what happens beyond the most superficial of changes. Which, in many ways, is how we've ended up where we are right now.

Across all of Europe, countries are concerned with the demographic shifts that have occurred due to a combination of falling birth rates, and increased non-native populations. You can see countries such as Sweden, Denmark, etc who previously embraced mass immigration, and multiculturalism, now deciding to limit immigration and the rights of non-native groups. Why would that be the case? because people, like yourself, have ignored what's been going on, dismissing the concerns of those who have spoken about it.

So, why will Ireland be any different from our continental neighbours? If we continue on the path we've been following, we're going to end up exactly like them, forced to deal with these problems after they've become serious problems, rather than anticipating them, and resolving them before they become serious issues...

Oh, I'm middle aged, not old. At least not yet anyway. However if you are young, perhaps you should care, because this situation will impact you the most. After all, traditionally problems are often deferred to the next generation to resolve, until they can't be deferred any longer.. so you (and those younger than you) will be the ones to have to bear the brunt of the problems involved.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163181#Comment_119163181

What the hell has asylum seeker policy got to do with mass immigration?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163181#Comment_119163181

Asylum seekers are not part of mass immigration. Typically the numbers involved are low in comparison with normal refugee applications... so AS isn't relevant.

As for which countries were encouraging mass immigration? Most western nations did, while multiculturalism and diversity were touted by Germany (and by extension, the EU) for the last two decades. Immigration to Europe increased dramatically under the official policies implemented by the EU to make Europe a more diverse continent.

Now, most of this came from countries which originally were manufacturing centres. Germany, France, Italy, etc all of whom had a manufacturing, agricultural base, along with tourism which needed cheap labour, so they encouraged mass immigration to solve their employment needs. After all, as their own economies became more successful, and education became widespread, less natives were interested in such jobs, partly due to the rising costs of living, but also the status/prestige of getting better jobs. Alas for Italy, their economy crumbled, and they were left with a large foreign born population who were stuck at the lower end of society due to a lack of education or wealth, which in turn, has led to huge hikes in social welfare and crime. Germany and France have done better because their economies remain relatively strong, and their manufacturing bases have stayed relevant, but.. the problems with a low skilled foreign population in an expensive nation, are ever increasing in scope.

But sure, mass immigration has essentially stopped being supported by European countries since covid came along.. except for Ireland, who continue to believe that we need large numbers of foreigners with low skills to fill jobs that Irish people supposedly don't want to do. Which wouldn't be any kind of issue if they remained on renewable visas, and went home after a few years or a decade, but the Irish political parties have been encouraging these migrants to stay and become citizens. So, rather than encouraging our inward skilled/educated migrant population to stay, they encourage everyone to stay regardless of their ability to provide for themselves in the long-term. Hell, they've even sought to make it easier for illegal immigrants (no, not undocumented.. illegal) to remain in Ireland and avail of the path to citizenship.

So.. mass immigration is still of particular interest for our political parties.

landofthetree

It's mainly down to women putting their careers ahead of starting a family.

While I'm 100% in favour of women having equal opportunities as men we have to live with the downside of a lower birthrate. Although we should have better childcare,better work life balance it just isn't possible for a woman to not have to make sacrifices if she wants to have a kid. Also Finland have great childcare programs and a better work life balance but their birthrates are even lower than here.

Shoog

A thread to discuss the Great Replacement CT. Nice.

Its a simple fact of life that as more people achieve higher levels of education then they actively choose to have fewer children (yes its a fact the illiterate breed faster), and this is true everywhere in the world. Ireland has one of the highest rates of third level education in the world - so in lock step its birth rate has fallen. No conspiracy, no plan, no nefarious intent to replace the native Irish - simple universal demographics.

How we choose to deal with this universal truism is another matter - but yes immigration does help to plug the gap to some degree. Ultimately though a falling population is essential to achieve a sustainable future for everyone. To many people - ultimately we all suffer a terrible future of ecological collapse.

It is a huge challenge we all face in every corner of the world to manage falling birth rates, in a world which is predicated on growth (economic growth is based upon population growth). Shutting the gates will not solve the problem of how we live with a geriatric population, because whatever we do short of forcing people to breed - the population decline will continue because educated people do not willingly turn themselves into breeding machines.

So all you Great replacement chicken littles can just go **** off.

y0ssar1an22

get the wimmim back to motherin and making sammiches

joseywhales

Where is the mass immigration? What is the definition of the term and what is the evidence for it. A lot of posts seem to be premised on the idea that there is mass immigration in Ireland without actually proving it or even defining it.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163432#Comment_119163432

Take a walk around Dublin city centre sometime. There's been almost a 100 thousand PPS numbers issued to non Irish so far this year.

Nice to see the nihilistic worldview of the eco gimps making an appearance. Apparently Russia, China, Africa et al are going to take care of the planet once Whitey has done the decent thing and made himself extinct. 😂

Its funny how the excuses always follow the same line:

It's not happening

It is happening but its a good thing

Even if its not a good thing you're a racist for saying so

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163432#Comment_119163432

If it’s a simple open-minded question of if it’s happening or not, just look at Ireland’s falling birth rates since the 70s, and the population growth since the last 90s. Before someone cries “racism”, plenty of Irish emigrants came back here when the economy improved. Although recent figures mentioned here on the number of people born outside Ireland would say that’s less of a factor now.

If you passionately believe it’s “wrong” or “right”, it probably won’t help a nuanced conversation about this.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163469#Comment_119163469

People are people and only a racist care about the colour of their skin.

joseywhales

Jaysus lads, I merely asked that people define the term and provide evidence of it and I get replies with some straw man argument about racism. Did I mention racism somewhere? I'm not interested in it. What is the % of immigration that defines "mass immigration"?

y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163501#Comment_119163501

everyone has their own interpretation of it which is completely subjective, like there can never be an objective definition of it.

if i was to make an attempt to define it, it prob would follow along the lines of....when the birth rates of immigrants surpasses the birth rates of non-immigrants (no doubt there are flaws in that off the cuff definition, and then factor in G2, i dunno)

you cant have a conversation without first defining what you are talking about.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163469#Comment_119163469

Wow.

Just. ****ing. Wow,

I mean, the racist bots have recent registration dates. So who the **** are you?

On a completely unrelated matter, what sort of foreign-assed name is "Miadhc" anyway? Asking for a friend.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163426#Comment_119163426

Honky mots, at any rate, amirite? 😁

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163501#Comment_119163501

There's the other classic line that shows up in the great replacement thread, trying to challenge the definition of a term for the purposes of equivocation.

If you're not sure of the term, look it up in the dictionary, if you want to argue that nearly 100k PPS numbers in six months is not mass immigration into Ireland go ahead and have a crack. Last stastistic I saw was that one in every eight people in Ireland is now a non national. If you want to argue that is not mass immigration, go ahead.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163406#Comment_119163406

That ecological collapse thingy you mention is gonna happen one way or another, and there's probably gonna be some really painful **** going on when it does.