Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004118#Comment_122004118

Go on Raoul, please show us what 'negotiations' they failed to compromise in?

Where and at what point in the 'mature negotiations' with FG and FF, for instance, did this happen?

Or did somebody take their balls home before the game even begun?

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004036#Comment_122004036

Think of it in these terms.

A Group want to build a shiny new Building with sea-views and all sorts of wonderful things and they just bought a huge big site , just perfect for it.

However , the ONLY access to this site is through the land of a Grumpy old farmer and without him agreeing to sell the land to them the can't do anything.

If the building is to ever happen, that Farmer is going to expect to be paid many many many multiples of the value if his much smaller piece of land for facilitating this shiny new building.

Despite having much less land , he holds all the power and he knows it.

Why on earth would he give it up cheaply?, he will push and push to see how badly the other guys want that shiny new building.

That's just how negotiation works.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004129#Comment_122004129

SF don't have much of a bench, if by 'reset' you mean some kind of Opposition front bench reshuffle?

In fact, their pool of talent looks really weak and you do have to wonder how they would hold up under the white heat of scrutiny in government. I think Pearse Doherty would be badly exposed for one - any time I've ever heard him attempt to speak about economic issues in any depth he comes across as totally clueless (probably understandably given he has zero background, educational or career, in the area).

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004129#Comment_122004129

12 points ahead of where they where is 'back where they started'?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004005#Comment_122004005

The spotlight will be on SF on who to reach out to and what to offer first and foremost

That is how it worked in the past.

It will take months id wager to get a deal.

And we havent even menetioned the, "We want a government without FF or FG" mantra that SF is pushing.

SF supporters will be in for a shock when they start talking to them.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004143#Comment_122004143

If they had the will, and the discipline, to do it, they - the largest party - would have found a way. They never even made a serious attempt. I know the default SF reaction here would be to blame FF\FG, but maybe try looking at it from a wider lense for once.

Just like the PVV. You mightn't like it but it's a valid comparison.

Raoul Duke III

by the way, is this thread just Francie batting on his own for SF? He's a busy man! With this kind of work ethic, Mary Loo should put him in charge of election strategy.

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004153#Comment_122004153

In fairness to SF, there was an undeniable sense of shock within the party itself after the last election - they never in their wildest dreams thought they would achieve what they did. So they may well have been unprepared for the notion of government formation and had no strategy for it.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004153#Comment_122004153

It could conceivably end up with a merger of the three "Republican parties" - FG, FF and SF in time? As SF gradually go more centrist etc.

The next argument would be what the new party would be called.

I doubt it would happen in my lifetime. But when all those from "The Troubles" era are long gone it makes it more likely it could happen.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004156#Comment_122004156

If they had the will, and the discipline, to do it, they - the largest party - would have found a way. 

Oh right.
They had to find 'a way' with the sleveenism of hot and cold Micheal, opening and closing doors, who would never coalesce with FG but did, and Varadkar who was not even being open to contact, claimed putting FF back in was like putting Delaney back in the FAI and then, what did he do, he put FF back in.

Maturity you say?

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004151#Comment_122004151

Lol Francie,if thats what Sinn Féin's analysis is of the latest polling,the current government will be a shoe in

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004198#Comment_122004198

It is MY analysis Pureza.
What am I missing? They are a full 12% ahead of where they where at the last EU election.

FG were at 35% in general polls in early 2020, they are now on a 20% year long flatline. FF in 2020 reached 24%, cannot get past 17% now.

What is your analysis of those falls and flatlines? Do the folk here not trumpet that that is good result for the government parties? Yet a 12% increase is something to be disappointed by?

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004245#Comment_122004245

After 4 years of this government,FG are where they started,meanwhile so are SF,are you seriously asking me why I think thats very disappointing for the main opposion party,to have 4 years being the main opposition come to nothing ?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004285#Comment_122004285

How is 12 points ahead of where they where 'where they started'?

Annasopra

I really am beginning to think SF won't be in the next goverment at all. Down South they really don't know how to work in a coalition in a cross collegiate way. They refused to get involved with Water charges, marriage equality and Repeal until the last minute. Their activists and reps often didn't really engage with cross party campaigns on marriage equality and Repeal. On councils Their council members are all whipped/instructed by HQ way more than any other party. In councils they rarely work together in cross collegiate ways. I just see them as being so obsessed with themselves in the 26 counties that they wouldn't have the first clue at all about how to be in a coalition government.

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004293#Comment_122004293

I'm refering to their GE position,as well you and everyone else reading this know(s)

They reached 23% then,they're at 23% now 4 years later

If you'd like to discuss EU parliament comparisons,theres a thread for that

This one is titled 'how do they form a government'

Answer-At 20% behind the current government ,they'd want to be magicians

Are they back to where they started at the last GE or not? And how is that not a disappointment ?

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004183#Comment_122004183

Yes, absolutely. They would have found a way - instead of relapsing into blaming others for their failures. It's the difference between professionals and amateurs.

If I can find another comparison; contrast the Nancy Pelosi speakership where she exerted iron control over a fractious caucus and got things done, versus the current Republican sh!tshow where they can't get anything done and keep trying to defenestrate their own Speaker! Professionals, Amateurs.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004342#Comment_122004342

You posted a poll on the EU elections.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004371#Comment_122004371

So the two main parties effectively lock them out, won't even enter negotiations and they are supposed to find 'a way'.

Waiting with bated breath to find out how they might have done that

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004419#Comment_122004419

I posted the latest poll on party voting intentions

It's irrelevant which election they were asking about unless you want to avoid what it says,20% behind government parties after 4 years of being the main opposition would be in any analysis pretty disappointing n'est pas?

Raoul Duke III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004426#Comment_122004426

Your job, as an allegedly serious party, is to find a way to get into government and enact your agenda. (if that's not the case, then what's the point?)

There was no real attempt to make this happen in 2020, despite being numerically the largest party. Maybe a little bit of self-awareness about this rather than seeking to reflexively blame other parties?

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004426#Comment_122004426

No one is "locking" anyone out of anything.

Following the election if no single group has obtained an overall majority then each group if free to go an open negotiations with anyone and everyone to see if they can arrive at a collective majority.

Doing that will require an alignment on a Program for Government and an agreed distribution of roles and responsibilities.

Each group have their "minimum requirements" to be willing to go into Government - If Sinn Fein are unable to work to an equitable solution where all parties are comfortable with the deal then that is as much their failure as anyone else.

Just because Sinn Fein (or anyone else) is the single largest party it does not provide any "right" to form a government.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004531#Comment_122004531

No one is "locking" anyone out of anything.

Not putting a tooth in it, but refusing to negotiate is effectively a lock out. Especially when someone is criticising them for 'not finding a way'. There was 'no way' when parties refused to talk.

At no point have I ever said they had a 'right' to govern either.

blanch152

https://www.thejournal.ie/meps-to-vote-on-eu-migration-pact-6350472-Apr2024/

Chris McManus on his own doing his best to make sure that Sinn Fein are unelectable.

When one of the major issues in this country is managing migration, he votes against all European proposals to give nation states more controls over their borders. Even the Greens, who have been blamed on here for all immigration ills, managed to vote in favour of two of the ten measures.

It is now clear that if you uncontrolled immigration, Sinn Fein is the party to vote for. Can't really see that going down well.

Clo-Clo

Mary Lou and Sinn Fein at work again, blocking apartments in the middle of a housing crisis

The party is a disgrace, how it is allowed for someone from Foxrock to bring the case with the help of Sinn Fein is beyond me

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/developer-loses-appeal-to-save-planning-permission-for-1593-dublin-rental-apartments-1612221.html

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006273#Comment_122006273

A housing crisis is not a charter for bad planning or developers out for a fast buck.
Simple as that.

Well done all involved here. Greed/bad planning has destroyed quite enough of our architectural heritage.

P.S. try to understand the planning process, just because two separate people object does not mean they are ‘helping’ each other. Conspiracy theories is a different forum.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006325#Comment_122006325

Wow, you think Sinn Fein are right to block houses 😂

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006273#Comment_122006273

Sinn Fein are the most corrupt cynical political party on this island. They are only objecting to developments to stop the government. Their only interest is in themselves, they have no feeling for the people. Those houses would have been homes to hundreds of people.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006340#Comment_122006340

Absolutely if it is bad planning.
Your Supreme Court agrees.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122006356#Comment_122006356

Yeah it's get as many people onto the streets as possible

In an area of Dublin which Doctors/nurses/students etc are all desperate for accomodations

I wonder will Mary Lou come out with one of her Dear Deirdre letter from a nurse who could have lived in this accomodation but can't now.