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The grant needs to go!

  • 01-06-2022 6:44pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    It's pretty obvious now that many of the more affordable BEVs are all heading towards the SEAI grant limit of €60k. ID4s, Ioniq5, EV6 etc. Manufacturers will maximise their profits, now that demand is so high & supply so constrained. There's an artificial ceiling now at the €55k mark, net, to avail of the grant.

    It's obvious it'll go anyway, now that demand is so high, but for now, it's an artificial distortion & arguably, just being creamed off by the manufacturers.

    If Tesla for example, increase the entry Model 3 by just €1k more, all non whites will increase by €6k. Who'd pay €6k for a colour? Kia have withdrawn the higher spec EV6 as it was at the grant limit. They'll drive up the entry spec now towards the grant limit. There'll be no competition at/near the €55k limit. Either spec will be reduced to bring it in under or they'll have to blow right by it with higher spec models hitting well into €65k+ territory.

    It's time for it to go IMO.

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,572 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    I'm not sure it's an Irish thing or even an EV thing at this point

    VW were recently saying they're aiming to become a luxury brand. So much for the people's car 🙄

    Kia/Hyundai have been doing the same for a while as well

    Seems all the brands are moving in the same direction, abandoning the budget segments in favour of higher profit markets

    IMO the budget cars will be coming from China and India soon



  • Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭ PaulJoseph22


    agreed, pretty much every car made in China is a budget brand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,206 ✭✭✭✭ ted1




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭ Redfox25


    Budget brand for some perhaps...........................

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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,982 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    incentives to change over must remain, its the only way to help the transition, but i wonder can other polices be also implemented, to try prevent gouging?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,572 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    Looking at Germany, they have the automaker pay part of the grant, I think it's a 50/50 split. And also there's a bonus grant for cars under €30k

    Ireland doesn't have the same clout with the car sales industry, but maybe something could be done here along those lines

    For example cars over ~€35k, the grant is partly funded by the dealership? The cynic in me says that the dealerships will just pas that cost along to the customer however



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,623 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    Looking at prices here and UK it does not look like the grant is causing upset to any price discrepancies that were in existence before the EV grant

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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,982 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭ eagerv


    I don't know if the grant going would make cars any cheaper here. What we need are more open pricing such as on the Tesla configurator so you can clearly see the VAT and VRT we are being charged compared to other countries. If incentives for EVs finish on a worldwide basis then that is a different matter.

    If the grant does go, it will be advantageous to any of us lucky enough to presently own an EV or two

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,606 ✭✭✭ whippet


    It's not just Tesla making it transparent - I've a quote from a BMW dealer on an i4 and it clearly lists the price for the car and each option with the individual VAT and VRT costs on each line.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭ eagerv


    Good to see BMW showing transparency as well👍️

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  • Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭ brownej


    BMW will show you the total VAT and VRT as well as the percentage in the online configurator.

    Once you finish configuring you press the summary button down the bottom. Then click on pricing and it tells you.

    If you want to see huge tax numbers, config up a large engine ICE.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,982 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    you ll actually find humans love 'da chape tax'!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭ eagerv


    We are in a strange situation here in Ireland, where we have a high VAT and a fairly high VRT. Plus a grant of 5K, which reduces the price on lower priced EVs, totally understandable from the Governments pov. Only problem is that manufacturers aren't producing lower priced cars atm for various reasons.

    A few years ago things looked quite rosy, not so much now..

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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    I think you'd do more for EV adoption by providing an infrastructure grant of €5,000 per car sold that can be used by any business to install public DC charging instead of subsiding the single vehicle purchase. Can you imaging the network we'd have if €40,000,000 had been made available to operators this year instead of subsiding the 8000+ cars that were sold.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭ RoadRunner


    After VW upped their prices recently their salesman are now recommending id4's to be purchased without heatpumps. Surely there's something wrong there.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭ eagerv


    Does the heatpump push the nett price above €55K?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    IMO the grant should be dropped down to €35k gradually over the next 3 years and dropped completely by 2030

    That's a better solution. Reduce the cap & taper it by value & over time.

    I'd favour a €40k cap with the grant reducing to zero over say a max. of 4 years.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭ eagerv


    I'd favour a €40k cap with the grant reducing to zero over say a max. of 4 years.

    Would there be many cars for sale atm to avail of the grant? ie €35K or less.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    Yeah, that's the result a grant with no taper/a hard cap. Manufacturers will drop spec to meet the figure on cars just over & bring up the price of cheaper cars to just under the limit. Kia just dropped the EV6 GT & the entry level Earth model will now creep up towards the limit, to maximise profit.

    Who's benefiting here? The customer will get lower spec cars for the same price.

    Dropping heatpumps to meet the grant limit is farcical. A Sustainable Energy grant which results in the dropping of more efficient heatpumps. It's an artificial & damaging distortion of the market the way it currently is IMO & much of the mainstream market is in this €50/55k area. Others will head there too, given the current demands/supply constraints.

    €5k off was great back in the day of Ioniqs, Leafs & later, Konas & eNiros, ID.3s etc.

    Now, it needs to either be reformed or scrapped. Given the anti car sentiment that pervades these days, including BEVs, I reckon sleepy eamo will scrap it & tell us we'll ultimately save money, by not buying a new car.

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 61,629 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Yes. Well on diesels anyway. What do you mean many people can't afford an electric car? I bought one for a bit over €2k last summer. It will have negative depreciation and the total cost of ownership is lower than a petrol / diesel banger that someone will give you for free.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,572 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    True enough, the current pricing structure for EVs is "charge whatever you want". Demand is constantly outstripping supply and frankly there's an argument that Ireland doesn't have enough clout to influence the car industry

    I mean if Ireland turns around and says they'll only give the grant to city hatchbacks costing under €20k, it's not like VW or Hyundai or Tesla are going to suddenly roll one out for us



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,572 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    He just really likes that Fluence 🤣

    In fairness, if you were commuting into Dublin every day from suburbia, a €2k Fluence would almost be cheaper than bus fares for a year



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