Ariel parts query?

Mr321

This is the setup

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119057392#Comment_119057392

You weren't lying about the age, old brown coax, 1985 masthead amp and maybe 40 year old combiner.

Will have a look at replacements.

Good idea to replace out the brown coax with satellite grade cable too while you're up there.

Mr321

Yea going to change the cable. That's no easy ariel to take down so not going at it twice lol thanks

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119057429#Comment_119057429

So the masthead amplification is after the 2 aerials combined and then down to further amplification in the attic. Generally not recommended but it is was it is. Meter would be useful here.

A masthead amp could be good enough to feed a number of TVs via a passive splitter in the attic without further amplification, again it'll depend on the signal strength/quality.

Mr321

Looked at a neighbours and its the same set up.

The Cush

Combiner here, Freeview on leg1 and Saorview on leg 2 - Fringe UHF Diplexer 3740 Combines 2 UHF Aerials into a Single Cable (freetv.ie)

Masthead amps here - Masthead Amplifiers - Amplify TV Signal at Source - Next Day Delivery (freetv.ie)

Regarding the masthead amp, they require 12v power, not sure what the distribution amp outputs to the aerial or even if it's working? Separate 12v power supply may be required.

Shop around for best prices.

Also how far are you from the respective Freeview and Saorview transmitters, no point over amplifying a signal if you're close to either of those two transmitters?

Regarding cable, look out for satellite grade CT100 spec cable, example here - CT100 Cable for Satellite & Aerial Installs - Best Prices in Ireland (freetv.ie). Lots of manufactures making this spec cable so shop around. List of certified cables and their manufacturers here - https://www.cai.org.uk/index.php/contact/downloads/product-certification-schemes/cable-certification/110-cai-certified-cables/file

Mr321

Thanks heading to get the bits for it now in a shop. I'd be along closer to the UK stations transmitter then the Irish ones. Your right think this was wired wrong. Must have been a bit of a cowboy doing it in the 80s lol Would this be correct was sent this there?

The power supply to the ariel is that box I posted from the attic?

The Cush

What would I do here?

I would initially replace the cables, in the process checking the aerial connections for corrosion.

After this install the aerial combiner and connect directly to the distribution amp in the attic and then do a signal strength/quality check for the two transmitters separately on each respective TV. Remember that Brougher Mountain has three hi power PSB muxes and three lo power commercial muxes.

If the signal isn't sufficient then go with a masthead amp, maybe a variable power one that the output signal can be adjusted to prevent tuner overload. Maybe replacing the distribution amp with a passive splitter and separate power supply for the masthead amp.

Good luck with it.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119057784#Comment_119057784

Can you check on the Saorview checker which Saorview transmitter is recommended for your location?

If you're close enough to Brougher Mt you might not require the amp, it could've been there for analogue TV reception, digital is more robust.

Regarding the amplification, my issue would be more with the double amplification rather than where the masthead amp is, double amplification wouldn't be recommended in a small domestic install unless there were long cable runs and signal level drop over that run.

Elvis Hammond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119057429#Comment_119057429

It wouldn't have been done like that originally. That's a group A amplifier, so should filter out the Saorview signal. (And ch.37 from Brougher as it's old gp. A.) Says 24 volts as well, & the dist. amp. would only supply 12, I'd imagine.

That black cable is fresher looking than the others, & a bit more carelessly fitted too. (Lot of exposed inner, messier braid.) I'd say some 'digital aerial' merchant later fitted that top aerial & 'reconfigured' things. Whole lot needs replacing anyway, as is pretty obvious.

Mr321

So far I've bought the cable and redone it all and cleaned up bits and pieces and put it up to see what's was what and reception still the same. What's odd is my Bbcs are watchable on one TV with some interference and not showing up on another. Both Panasonic and the one there better on is an older one (2012)

Shop only has these 2 kinds of masthead boxes . In and out one with power pic 1 and the three one pic 2 the combiner is one you talked of earlier and get rid of the other?

Was only analogue when this setup was about so no idea why its double amped? Would that be unsafe?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119058614#Comment_119058614

That black cable might have went in I think 10 year ago when a new bracket was made for the ariel not sure. Same guy that done it many years before anyway. Can't ask him anymore as he passed away few years back.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119057868#Comment_119057868

Mr321

Also yea I'm taking from the right transmitters.

Its very strange whatever has happened. Thought maybe at first it was atmospheric pressure but going on to long now

Elvis Hammond

There's nothing wrong with having 2 amplifiers, provided nothing is being overloaded. Is the distribution amp. a later addition maybe to serve extra TV points? Although there's always the suspicion it could be just to make up for falling signal levels from outside.

Are you sure your diagram in post #32 is right? I don't think the original installer would later sabotage his own work like that; I assume it's Freeview aerial to amplifier & then to diplexer.

Elvis Hammond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119058877#Comment_119058877

Nothing strange at all. It's just old moisture damaged equipment that's finally had enough.

Mr321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119058926#Comment_119058926

I drew out the first diagram for yous of how its always been after I took the ariel down. Was like that when there was 1 TV in the house then that splitter in the attic was added years after for other tvs. That 2nd drawing is one is one I was sent and wondered if it's how it should be now. He didn't sabotage his own work just added a longer cable when I wanted the ariel moved. Like reception was perfect after that up to recently?

The bit I find odd is one TV has good reception on a certain channel while another one doesn't and so fourth. Swapped around the TV points on that spitter made no difference.

Mr321

BBC1 NI atm on one TV

UTV not bad little bit of interference

Elvis Hammond

The digital error correction means you can get perfect picture & sound, when the actual signal is fairly degraded, but the failure point is sudden. (Digital cliff.)

The Cush

Just a couple of questions

Is the new masthead amp back in the system? If so is it still being powered by the distribution amp in the attic?

Have you checked the balun connectors on the aerial for corrosion?

Are the combiner and masthead amp wired as before?

If remaking any connections ensure that any of the outer metal braid wires aren't in contact with the centre core wire.

Troubleshooting can be slow and laborious but should be worth it in the end.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119058831#Comment_119058831

The Labgear combiner is good, 4g & 5g (800/700 MHz) protected from inward mobile interference.

The Labgear masthead amp a little less so, 4g (800 MHz) protected from inward mobile interference but susceptible to 700 MHz band (UHF 50-60) interference from nearby 4g/5g mobile base stations.

Not unsafe to double amp but can amplify upstream issues and possibly overload tuners downstream as mentioned by Elvis H above.

Mr321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119059198#Comment_119059198

Yea I opened up the balums and cleaned the connections but they were not bad at all.

OK thanks for the info on those labgear boxes. The combined one is €30 so not to bad. I havnt bought it as yet. Ariel is back up just with new cable all over coming into the spillter.

Yes they are wires as before as I wired them the other way first as the diagram I was sent showed and I wasn't getting any signals from freeview or Saorview.?

That amp splitter in the attic would hardly be giving trouble would it? It says 50hz on it?

Would it be worth buying a meter to test it before I buy anything else?

Thanks

The Cush

So, the aerials are wired directly to the distribution amp in the attic, no combiner or masthead amp?

And the signal isn't good at the TVs?

Is this correct?

Regarding the distribution amp in the attic, it's not the 50 Hz that could be the issue but the 12v the unit send out the aerial in cable to power the masthead amp on the pole.

If the distribution amp isn't sending out that 12v to the masthead amp it is just sitting there as a dumb unit reducing the signal to the unit in the attic.

Also the distribution amp in the attic may no longer be amplifying the output feeds at all.

The joys of troubleshooting.

Mr321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119060307#Comment_119060307

I understand you yes, can I check if that 12 is going out on my multimeter or is it a special ariel meter

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119060325#Comment_119060325

I edited my post since you posted.

Yes you should be able to check for 12v DC on your multimeter.

Elvis Hammond

OP, are/were you getting all the Saorview channels?

Can you see which UHF ch. nos. or frequencies they're on?

Mr321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119060307#Comment_119060307

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119061747#Comment_119061747

OK so today I changed all cable going from the splitter down to each the TV. Had all TVs on at was checking them and all were reasonably good on UK channels and perfect on Saorview channels.

Didn't get taking ariel back down today as its a 2 man job and had no help so as yet couldn't check to see if the 12v is going out to the ariel etc.

Yes the UHF from the splitter in the attic is what is powering the ariel.

OK so as of 9.30pm tonight none of my UK channels on any TV are watchable and now lve learned that my Saorview Stations have a little interference every few mins and signal and quality is both jumping around not the steady 10/10 like during the day (pic attached)

I'd nearly say now that the signal is getting worse/weaker at night? Checked with neighbours and relations a few mile away and their signals are perfect on both.

Maybe due to evening and night dampness/dew? Another spanner in the works...

Elvis would the UHF frequency for Saorview info be here on this pic? If not I'll see

On a manual install maybe

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119063289#Comment_119063289

There's a possible issue there in the pic, that RTE1, UHF35, is in the same frequency range as the Freeview channels.

What UHF channel is RTE2 on?

Clermont Carn Saorview channels are in the 40s.

Looks like conflicting frequencies, but from where and which aerial?

Disconnect the Saorview aerial, and check to see if the Saorview channels are coming in on the Freeview aerial.

Mr321

Rte2 on 34.

Tv was set for UK so done a factory restore and set it for Ireland its still coming in on those frequencies.

When set on Ireland I'm not getting as many UK channels like Channel 5 and quest yet I've changed it back to UK and Channel 5 is good atm. Well all UK channels are good while I type this. That could change in 10 mins

Yesterday when I had the ariel down I was able to stand on ground level and look in the window at the TV and check signals and unless the Saorview one was pointed east the Irish stations were not coming in so I don't think they will come in on UK ariel. Although I'll do what you said there and see. Its mad stuff isn't it. Yet a new mast head might solve the whole thing.

Elvis Hammond

Ch. 35 is Kippure, so not what your install has targeted.

Brougher could be subject to interference from Kilduff Saorview on chs. 31 & 37.

Mr321

That's mad as the Irish ariel is pointed east and as said before in the polarised position for that mast.

What's going on that it's pulling from tipp and wicklow all of a sudden?

All stations are very good still tonight.

So yous think the 2 ariels are fighting?

Mr321

Just thinking here I would have remembered seeing RTEs coming in on CH52 before when doing an install.