Ariel parts query?

Mr321

The box on the outdoor ariels can these be bought in a shop or is it only ariel installer has them.

Most of the time lately all the English and BBC NI channels are jumping all over the place with bad or no signal. Has to be that transmitter box on my English station ariel?

Schorpio

Whereabouts (roughly) are you? Are you receiving overspill terrestrial from the North? I'm presuming so, and that you aren't using a satellite dish to receive the UK stations.

There's no such thing as a 'transmitter box' on either an aerial or a satellite. If you are using an aerial (and not a dish) to receive the stations, there generally shouldn't be any 'boxes' anywhere along the cable between the aerial and the cable that feeds your set-top box or TV. Do you have any other TVs in the house, and are they all showing the same issues?

The Cush

Masthead amp maybe? Is there a power supply for the masthead amp somewhere inside?

https://www.freetv.ie/saorview/amplifiers/

Where are you located?

Mr321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044189#Comment_119044189

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044201#Comment_119044201

Yes all TV and Saorview box's showing the same. Yes it's the overspill from the North I receive the UK stations from. Its the same ariel that's up for over 30 years.

The neighbours signal on UK stations is OK. When I say ariel box I'm referring to that in this pic whatever it is called.

IMG_20220511_071009.jpg

L1011

That's the balun, its a passive component of the aerial. It's not something that often fails. Why do you think yours has?

Mr321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044478#Comment_119044478

I just thought maybe it's what received the stations in.

We would have had the clearest reception of UK stations always both on the old analogue and freeview and this past few weeks nothing. No BBC NI at all and the rest barely watchable when good.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044450#Comment_119044450

Basically it's the box that houses the cable connection to the aerial, integral part of the aerial, water/moisture ingress over 30 years can corrode connections. Wiring up plugs, aerials and wall plates - A.T.V. Poles, Brackets, Clamps & Aerials (aerialsandtv.com)

If the aerial is there 30 years replacement would be recommended and if the cable is also there that length of time there may be issues with it too.

Recommended aerial Group K wideband, avoid Group B and T, Group A only if all your Freeview/(Saorview?) transmitter frequencies fall within UHF 21-37. Is this aerial also used for Saorview reception?

Blake aerials highly recommended - Television Aerials - Blake UK (blake-uk.com)

The Cush

Looking at your other post in the satellite forum re: SkyQ/Freesat issue, how long have you been having these aerial issues?

Mr321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044533#Comment_119044533

Thanks. The boxes are well insulated up with tape but obviously after many years no doubt moisture is getting in.

It goes from that box down to another box on the Irish stations ariel then into a uhf power splitter in the attic and off to each TV in the house.

Mr321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044599#Comment_119044599

Have sky since 2014 and was updated to Q the other week. The freesat query was due to not being able to get any UK channels so said I'd give it a try on the freesat TV.

The sat and ariel arnt beside each other at the house.

Ariel reception problems going on over 2 months now so long before the sat was changed.

I'm up very high where I live also so shouldn't be an issue.

maestroamado

There is a booster that supplies currant and i think it is more likely that...

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044710#Comment_119044710

So 2 aerials into a UHF combiner and from there to a distribution amp.

Issue could be with either of the above also and/or connections to these units.

Initially check that the connections are well made and secure, a loose or bad connection can cause these issues.

Also as the aerial is over 30 years old it is possible the old aerial may be susceptible to interference from mobile base stations due to the coverage range of the aerial. A sizeable chunk of spectrum has moved from TV to mobile services in the last 10 years or so with some older aerials overlapping the new mobile spectrum which can cause inward interference to existing TV frequencies. A new mobile base station or switching on new 700 MHz frequencies at an existing base station is a possibility .

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044723#Comment_119044723

Yes, that rules out any issues between the satellite and aerial installations.

Mr321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044877#Comment_119044877

Yes that's it. I think those boxes I was talking about could be each ariels amplifier maybe? I recall 12v being wrote on them one time I seen them

I'm going to take down the ariel this evening see what's what and clean up it all.

Like you said could be either of the 2 mentioned, hard to know which one to replace first if it's still the same after a clean up

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045114#Comment_119045114

Post a pic of the aerial, interesting to see what type it is.

Also post a pic of that unit with the 12v, could that be a power supply?

Mr321

Yea weather depending later if I do it.

Thanks

Mr321

Home and lashing outside but checked the TV and BBC NI and UK channels atm are

Signal strength 10/10

Signal quality jumping from 4 - 6/10

Would that narrow down the problem of where/which the fault lies?

L1011

Strength and quality numbers are basically made up box to box and mean nothing useful.

The Cush

As L1011 posted, unfortunately not.

A terrestrial signal meter and checking at each break in the cable would be ideal. Only did this last week for my brother and quickly found the fault in a passive splitter.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119046953#Comment_119046953

Really? Then maybe you could explain why I was asked by regular experts in this forum to post details of signal strength and quality in relation to an issue I have.

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119047130#Comment_119047130

It indicates how good or bad the signal strength and quality is arriving at the internal tuner but it won't indicate where in the installation the fault lies.

A 100/100 or 10/10 indicates a perfect signal, a significant drop will confirm a fault somewhere.

Mr321

OK this is the setup. Top ariel for the UK over spill which has been working since TV was invented.

Bottom ariel the Irish stations and from that lower box you can see goes into this amplifier box in the attic to the different TVs in the house.

I've swapped and changed and checked the tvs to see if anything was different or drawing away a signal with another being on and doesn't seem to be.

The 12v & 24v I mentioned earlier are on those boxes thats on the ariel. Inside them from what I can remember was a band screwed across in them and the ariel core tightened in on the band etc.

I think the UK must be problem because if that amplifier was playing up I'd have no Irish stations or nothing at all.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119047130#Comment_119047130

They are, at best, an indication of whether changes have done anything. They are of no use in a case like this

They are arbitrary scales that don't even have consistency between the same model of box. Signal and SNR figures in real measurements as used on pro kit would be real figures

The Cush

12v and 24v on those two boxes on the mast would indicate they are masthead amplifiers but there appears to be no power supply to amplify the feeds.

Masthead amps boost a weak received signal at the aerial before going down the cable to the TV, used during analogue TV days I assume. Digital signals can be more robust for similar transmitter power, in many cases no longer requiring a masthead amp after analogue was switched off.

This could be your problem, those masthead amps are attenuating/weakening the signal passing through them without power to amplify.

Is the Freeview signal passing through both boxes?

The power is carried on the coax from a remote power supply to the masthead amp.

I would recommend removing the two masthead amps and replacing them with either a passive combiner or another single masthead amp with power supply if the received signal isn't good enough.

Do you know which Saorview and Freeview transmitters you are receiving from?

Elvis Hammond

That Triax/Wolsey distribution amp. has 12V line power for a masthead.

I'd say only one of those boxes is an amplifier; mention of voltage in the other one would be to indicate power passing leg(s) in a combiner.

Mr321

Thanks for the replies and help so far, I didn't get taking the aerial down this evening as something else came up.

I'd be receiving from Brougher and Cairn Hill.

Yea the freeview passes down into the Saorview box then from that Saorview box into the connection that says UHF on that amplifier splitter in the attic. That's the only power going to the aerial.

I see there's 3 wires connected up to the freeview box and 2 to the Saorview view one.

So yous think I'd get away with 1 of those boxes with a passive or single mast head amp?

Each ariel has a balun so some ariel wire goes to this single mast head and from it into the splitter i have in the attic?

Elvis Hammond

Three cables is 2 in, 1 out to combine the signals. The amplifier is 1 in, 1 out.

Not that it matters, but it must be Clermont Carn for Saorview, as the aerial is vertically polarised?

Mr321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119048922#Comment_119048922

Probably is Clermont sorry.

Saorview Stations are 100%

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119048786#Comment_119048786

Can't say for sure if the masthead amp is redundant, this can only be determined when troubleshooting the system.

The weak signal fault lies somewhere in that installation but finding it would take time. 30 years is a long time to be exposed to the elements, moisture/water ingress, corrosion.

The question is has the masthead amp and/or distribution amp, which supplies power to the masthead amp via the UHF-in cable, failed?

Are there bad cable connection(s) somewhere on that mast?

Has the combiner failed due to moisture ingress over the years?

Unfortunately difficult to troubleshoot remotely but would enjoy getting my hands on it. Might be a job for an installer with a meter to fault find.

Mr321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119049356#Comment_119049356

Prices up some stuff today and I'll change the mast head amp and see where I'm at.

Check the quality etc and probably if all OK might just change out the ariel cable on the ariel right into the attic aswell. Not that much cable in the whole thing altogether so shouldn't be to bad.

Mr321

This is the 2 boxes what should I replace them with?