Brian Dowling and Arthur Gourounlian expecting first baby.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 08-05-2022 7:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119033150#Comment_119033150

This is the only thing missing from "DarK".

Annasopra · 08-05-2022 7:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119029269#Comment_119029269

Children in general do much better with a male and female role model.

This is completely untrue and has been absolutely and thoroughly debunked. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of pieces of research providing the evidence that your statement is absolute drivel and made up nonsense.

Bayonet · 08-05-2022 9:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119033352#Comment_119033352

I'll be honest, I'm not convinced by far left wing academia that tells me nature and evolution are wrong.

I mean these are the same people telling me men can get pregnant and can't define women. So err, I think I'll stick to how evolution and nature intended. A man and a woman making a baby. If the gays want to get married, no problem they have my blessing. Great bunch of lads in general.

But I'm not into same sex couples having babies purely because in general I see it as not optimal for the child.

bertiebomber · 08-05-2022 9:09pm

Yawn reality tv stars who cant brush their teeth with out announcing it to the world...... i hope he is financially rewarding his poor sister for her trouble like he would have to if it was a ukranian.

Annasopra · 08-05-2022 9:31pm

Posted twice - deleted

Annasopra · 08-05-2022 9:36pm

@Bayonet

I'm not referring to far left academia at all though.

You are of course completely entitled to your opinion about all of this. Theres absolutely no issue with you viewing it any way you want.

But your opinion is not a fact. Your opinions have been thoroughly debunked. Its worth looking back to what has been said here before on the site Marriage redefinition and Childrens rights - Page 31 — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'

children being raised by same-sex couples is not new and is not an experiment. Same-sex couples have been raising children for a long time. We've been studying its effects for over forty years now and the conclusions of all the research that has been done (and this can't be repeated often enough) is that THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE between children raised by gay couples and those raised by straight couples. This issue has been studied in every way possible from longitudinal studies tracking the children's development through to adulthood to large nationally representative surveys and even meta-analyses combining the data obtained from the many smaller studies out there. The evidence that same-sex couples are just as good parents as straight couples is about as robust as any evidence from any other field of science. If you'd like to find out more you can read the research here: Sharpening Occam's Razor: Marriage Equality 2015 - Dissecting the arguments - Part 3: Marriage & Children (oldrnwisr.blogspot.com)

Dtp1979 · 08-05-2022 9:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119027578#Comment_119027578

I’ll agree with you to a point. But they’re no celebraties

Burt Renaults · 08-05-2022 9:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119033296#Comment_119033296

It'd be great to see Clive Anderson back on television.

angel eyes 2012 · 08-05-2022 10:59pm

@bertiebomber Ukraine only permits access to heterosexual married couples. Same sex couples cannot access surrogacy in Ukraine.

08-05-2022 11:04pm

Is he the wan off the Telly Bingo?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 08-05-2022 11:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119033352#Comment_119033352

I'd argue it's true - the fallacy is that the role models MUST be the parents.

If a child is raised by two men, there's no reason they cant find excellent female role models in teachers, aunts, grandmothers, cocahes....

Brucie Bonus · 08-05-2022 11:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119029269#Comment_119029269

I would never have imagined a supporter of the Israeli apartheid would be a bigot...oh, wait. Makes complete sense.

People can raise a child. The sexual orientation doesn't come into it. I can see how people you have issues with getting equal rights can be irritating for you.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 08-05-2022 11:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119034257#Comment_119034257

No, Big Brother 2 back in 2000-something. You're thinking of Shirley Temple-Bar.

foxsake · 09-05-2022 8:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119033352#Comment_119033352

it has not been debunked at all . I love how boards heroes just randomly say "this is debunked" cos some article once said so.

plenty of research saying the opposite.

in fact 2 of the main recent studies cited by the deboonkers to support this - were based only on psychological issued self reported by lesbian mothers.

self reported eh?

furthermore the American Psychological Association (APA) who also made this claim in 2005 - had their analysis reviewed (marks 2012 - pubmed) and the conclusion

The conclusion is that strong assertions, including those made by the APA, were not empirically warranted.

Thoroughly debunked , you say? come on. maybe an inconvenient truth for you ?

Of course, my view is that a male & female influence at home is best but in absence of that we should make do with the circumstances and everybody try their best with their kids.

That's said, my main issue is with this story is surrogacy - i think it's a dangerous practice and in many cases (not this case mind it exploits women in poorer countries for a few quid with no regard to their wellbeing. Having a child isn't some divine right , sometimes you are dealt a poor hand in life - we all are in some aspects , the notion that we can have everything we want is a fallacy.

be gay , be married but this pretend that you are exactly the same as a hetro couple is a fanciful notion.

these people have notions.

Mad_maxx · 09-05-2022 9:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119033352#Comment_119033352

card carrying progressives ( which these kind of researchers invariably always are ) conclude that two men make just as good of parents as a traditional pairing of mother and father

who,d have thunk it ?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 09-05-2022 9:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119034938#Comment_119034938

If argue any loving couple have the right to start a family- or are you willing to extend the same logic to all firms of artificial reproduction and ivf treatments?

I see your point specific to surrogacy - and in general would agree with you - but I think we can rule out the exploitation possibility here.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 09-05-2022 9:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119034962#Comment_119034962

Can you say why you thing gay people don't make good patents?

Deeec · 09-05-2022 9:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119034962#Comment_119034962

I agree to a certain extent. Gay couples should be allowed to have children but it should be compulsory that the child's biological father/mother should be part of their life in some capacity.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 09-05-2022 9:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035001#Comment_119035001

Why not have the same rule for straight couples? If your argent is consistent, then i pressure you're anti-adoptiom?

foxsake · 09-05-2022 9:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119034988#Comment_119034988

I did say this wasn't the typical exploitation case but I don't think it's right (or good) to have another womb as a host. The bond developed over 9months etc... this cant be dismissed as not important.

no I wouldn't extend the argument - they aren't the same thing - first cos the male/female presence in the childs life and secondly the mother of the child is carrying the baby and the baby will be brought up by that mother. on a personal level - I wouldn't do IVF or the like - was always of the view that if it didn't happen (we had this discussion years ago) there were other fulfilling ways to do life.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 09-05-2022 9:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035039#Comment_119035039

Fair enough - at least you're consistent.

Id argue that there's always going to be a male/female presence in a child's life. It's not possible in this day and age for it not to be that way, unless you raise the child on a desert island. It takes a village to raise a child, I believe....

Finally, saying to someone that there are other fulfilling thingsin life is extremely simplistic.

09-05-2022 9:28am

I'm a little confused about this so hopefully someone can clarify;

Is Brian Dowling's sister pregnant with Brian Dowling's husband's baby (i.e is it his sperm and her egg?)?

I'm assuming if it is her egg, that Brian Dowling's sperm couldn't and shouldn't be used.

This is a very strange story and a little creepy.

foxsake · 09-05-2022 9:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035056#Comment_119035056

Firstly , I'm a simple man but I get you not everybody is likeminded.

That village to raise a child thing is something I disagree with profoundly .

We see issues in the communities with high degrees of absent fathers - it seems to be a factor in black america - there is no village there- this isn't some racist trope Barrack Obama said.

Of all the rocks upon which we build our lives, we are reminded today that family is the most important. And we are called to recognize and honor how critical every father is to that foundation. They are teachers and coaches. They are mentors and role models. They are examples of success and the men who constantly push us toward it.

But if we are honest with ourselves, we’ll admit that what too many fathers also are is missing — missing from too many lives and too many homes. They have abandoned their responsibilities, acting like boys instead of men. And the foundations of our families are weaker because of it.

You and I know how true this is in the African-American community. We know that more than half of all black children live in single-parent households, a number that has doubled — doubled — since we were children. We know the statistics — that children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime; nine times more likely to drop out of schools and 20 times more likely to end up in prison. They are more likely to have behavioral problems, or run away from home or become teenage parents themselves. And the foundations of our community are weaker because of it.

I cant remember who - but similar was said by somebody regarding london .

Just as a father (a good one ) is required a mother is too.

Penn · 09-05-2022 9:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035063#Comment_119035063

It's almost certainly not his sperm if his sister is carrying the child, unless they have an egg donor too who is unrelated, in which case I don't think it matters as that would eliminate that risk of genetic defects as his sister would only be carrying the child but wouldn't be its biological mother.

I don't see how it's "creepy" though. So long as the sperm and egg aren't from the same family, it's no different to a woman acting as a surrogate for an infertile sister. So long as everyone is happy with the circumstances and knows what they're getting into, it's fine. No reason why anyone else should care.

09-05-2022 9:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035135#Comment_119035135

I probably should have clarified, it would be creepy if it turns out that the sister is the biological mother and the husband is the father.

I thought that was the situation.

If it is from a separate egg donor then it's a different story altogether.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 09-05-2022 9:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119035101#Comment_119035101

The village thing is a phrase - the point is, kids are going to come in contact with - and be influenced by - a lot of different adults, both make and female in society.

Single parents would seem to debunk your last line.

The simple truth is, the nuclear family, no matter how ideal, is simply not a reliable concept and society has evolved to find other, perfectly sufficient solutions.

Bottom line - kids need love, shelter and structure and none of these are based on gender or orientation.