US Supreme Court to overturn Roe vs Wade

volchitsa · 03-05-2022 7:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011126#Comment_119011126

Well, for one thing, because in an emergency, there won't be time to go to another hospital, never mind another state.

For instance, in Missouri (one of the states expected to ban abortion if RvW is removed) there is currently a bill which effectively bans abortion for ectopic pregnancy:

https://vajenda.substack.com/p/explaining-the-awful-missouri-abortion?s=r

Section A.3. The language here makes all abortion after 10 weeks illegal. ... the next two lines are what drew even more outrage online as the language appears to conflate treating ectopic pregnancy with abortion, hence making treatment of ectopic pregnancy a class A felony.

In an ectopic pregnancy, the woman is at risk of dying if treatment is not immediate. She can't just mosey along to Arizona, or wherever.

volchitsa · 03-05-2022 7:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011275#Comment_119011275

There are already 22 with abortion bans already in place ready to go if Roe v Wade is lifted.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/us-supreme-court-votes-to-overturn-roe-v-wade-zxj3fqgkf

At least 22 states have anti-abortion laws in place that will come into effect if the court formally strikes down Roe v Wade. A further four states are set to ban abortion in the coming weeks, with the 26 in which the procedure will be effectively outlawed ranging from Idaho in the north west to Florida in the south east.

tooka · 03-05-2022 7:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011293#Comment_119011293

no American state will ban abortion

no state will make illegal abortions where the mothers life is in danger , won’t happen and it is ridiculous to say it will

now some states may use this decision to legally discourage abortions, they might reduce time limits, they might defund planned parenthood etc

but abortions will still exist so please stop this handmaid tales rubbish

Overheal · 03-05-2022 7:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011193#Comment_119011193

You don't have to believe me, you can just look at these states own Trigger (and TRAP) Laws. These aren't theoretical laws, or bills, waiting in the wings to be rushed through statehouses, they already passed, and are legislatively designed to become legally enforceable when the Trigger becomes active: the repeal of Roe vs Wade.

You're free to travel, but some States have already or will legislate to criminalize seeking an out of state abortion. Texas already awards plaintiffs $10,000 if they successfully prove someone went out of state for one.

https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/abortion-policy-absence-roe

Link here charts the effect of these Trigger Laws when they become active.

Highlights

23 states have laws that could be used to restrict the legal status of abortion.
- 9 states retain their unenforced, pre-Roe abortion bans.
- 13 states have post-Roe laws to ban all or nearly all abortions that would be triggered if Roe were overturned.
- 9 states have unconstitutional post-Roe restrictions that are currently blocked by courts but could be brought back into effect with a court order in Roe’s absence.
- 7 states have laws that express the intent to restrict the right to legal abortion to the maximum extent permitted by the U.S. Supreme Court in the absence of Roe.
- 4 states have passed a constitutional amendment explicitly declaring that their constitution does not secure or protect the right to abortion or allow use of public funds for abortion.
16 states and the District of Columbia have laws that protect the right to abortion.
- 4 states and the District of Columbia have codified the right to abortion throughout pregnancy without state interference.
- 12 states explicitly permit abortion prior to viability or when necessary to protect the life or health of the pregnant person.

You may be entirely correct that abortions will proceed unabated, but it means that in many cases, Americans will be marred as Illegals for doing so. Conservatives have shown very few reservations about how far they are willing to go to "protect the life of the unborn" even if that means channeling some totalitarianism. "I don't believe you" yet the Law in Texas says I can get $10,000 for ratting on a girl getting an abortion out of state.

And yes, this SCOTUS was already happy with the plan

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/01/20/supreme-court-texas-abortion-law-challenge/

Sec.A171.207.AALIMITATIONS ON PUBLIC ENFORCEMENT. (a)AANotwithstanding Section 171.005 or any other law, the requirements of this subchapter shall be enforced exclusively through the private civil actions described in Section 171.208. No enforcement of this subchapter, and no enforcement of Chapters 19 and 22, Penal Code, in response to violations of this subchapter, may be taken or threatened by this state, a political subdivision, a district or county attorney, or an executive or administrative officer or employee of this state or a political subdivision against any person, except as provided in Section 171.208.

(b)AASubsection (a) may not be construed to: (1)AAlegalize the conduct prohibited by this subchapter or by Chapter 6-1/2, Title 71, Revised Statutes; (2)AAlimit in any way or affect the availability of a remedy established by Section 171.208; or (3)AAlimit the enforceability of any other laws that regulate or prohibit abortion. Sec.A171.208.AACIVIL LIABILITY FOR VIOLATION OR AIDING OR ABETTING VIOLATION. (a)AAAny person, other than an officer or employee of a state or local governmental entity in this state, may bring a civil action against any person who: (1)AAperforms or induces an abortion in violation of this subchapter; (2)AAknowingly engages in conduct that aids or abets the performance or inducement of an abortion, including paying for or reimbursing the costs of an abortion through insurance or otherwise, if the abortion is performed or induced in violation of this subchapter, regardless of whether the person knew or should have known that the abortion would be performed or induced in violation of this subchapter; or (3)AAintends to engage in the conduct described by Subdivision (1) or (2). (b)AAIf a claimant prevails in an action brought under this section, the court shall award: (1)AAinjunctive relief sufficient to prevent the defendant from violating this subchapter or engaging in acts that aid or abet violations of this subchapter;(2)AAstatutory damages in an amount of not less than $10,000 for each abortion that the defendant performed or induced in violation of this subchapter, and for each abortion performed or induced in violation of this subchapter that the defendant aided or abetted; and (3)AAcosts and attorney ’s fees. (c)AANotwithstanding Subsection (b), a court may not award relief under this section in response to a violation of Subsection (a)(1) or (2) if the defendant demonstrates that the defendant previously paid the full amount of statutory damages under Subsection (b)(2) in a previous action for that particular abortion performed or induced in violation of this subchapter, or for the particular conduct that aided or abetted an abortion performed or induced in violation of this subchapter. (d)AANotwithstanding Chapter 16, Civil Practice and Remedies Code, or any other law, a person may bring an action under this section not later than the fourth anniversary of the date the cause of action accrues. (e)AANotwithstanding any other law, the following are not a defense to an action brought under this section: (1)AAignorance or mistake of law; (2)AAa defendant ’s belief that the requirements of this subchapter are unconstitutional or were unconstitutional; (3)AAa defendant ’s reliance on any court decision that has been overruled on appeal or by a subsequent court, even if that court decision had not been overruled when the defendant engaged in conduct that violates this subchapter;

SB 8 is Texas state law. How much more proof do you need for your personal belief?

https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/billtext/pdf/SB00008F.pdf

Faugheen · 03-05-2022 7:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011283#Comment_119011283

This makes zero sense because the final decision was going to be released before the Mid Terms anyway.

I'd bet both my bollocks it was leaked by a staffer on the conservative side of the bench, because now if it changes then everyone just blames political pressure or whatever excuse they have. By leaking this then it more-or-less locks it in.

Hardly beneficial for the Democrats, is it?

pjohnson · 03-05-2022 7:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011329#Comment_119011329

The laws are already in place ready to become active.

How the héll are you guys so perma detached from reality.

tooka · 03-05-2022 7:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011310#Comment_119011310

Florida will not ban abortion

Faugheen · 03-05-2022 7:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011340#Comment_119011340

It's generally what happens when their modus operandi is to own the libs.

Overheal · 03-05-2022 7:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011275#Comment_119011275

Respectfully, you look foolish here telling others they know nothing about what's going on here.

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/14/1084485963/florida-abortion-law-15-weeks

The abortion landscape is already rapidly changing. The GOP clearly know this decision was coming

They passed the bill in the statehouse 3 days before the draft, dated february 20.

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/17/1081450530/florida-house-abortion-ban

DeSantis signed it less than 3 weeks ago. It is state law now.

pjohnson · 03-05-2022 7:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011348#Comment_119011348

Its kinda hilarious tbh.

It completely undermines whatever edgy point they are trying to claim, and then they complain about "lefties" talking down to them.

Boggles · 03-05-2022 7:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011283#Comment_119011283

The Supreme Court was supposed to publish it's decision in June or July. Long before the mid terms.

This draft was circulated nearly 3 months ago, you could infer it was leaked now because there is a good chance that it could make up the bulk of the final ruling.

Overheal · 03-05-2022 7:46pm

Before the Midterms, but after the Primaries.

@Boggles there's news circulating Roberts was trying to draft and get favor for his own more moderate court decision, at the time this leak occurred. Equally possible a Republican clerk leaked it to politically lock the court out of shifting to a more moderate position than outright appeal of Roe and disregard of Stare Decisis.

tooka · 03-05-2022 7:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011352#Comment_119011352

Currently abortion is legal in all 50 states, this will not change

also you need not worry you head about an internal American matter

VinLieger · 03-05-2022 7:49pm

Reading about the insane repercussions of this potentially making not only Gay Marriage illegal in states that don't want it but also Homosexuality. Land of the free indeed.......

03-05-2022 7:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011005#Comment_119011005

Looking like it was leaked by the GOP, so most likely going to be buried, and if it turns out to be the case, the usual crew on here will drop it and try and pretend they never mentioned it.

Same as they drop out of every thread when things don't go their way, until they think they have a "win" and come back until they are again proven wrong.

It is almost as if they are as thick as pig sh1t or something and can't actually research the topics etc that they participle in.

Overheal · 03-05-2022 7:50pm

For Immediate Release

Yesterday, a news organization published a copy of a draft opinion in a pending case. Justices circulate draft opinions internally as a routine and essential part of the Court’s confidential deliberative work. Although the document described in yesterday’s reports is authentic, it does not represent a decision by the Court or the final position of any member on the issues in the case.

Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., provided the following statement:

To the extent this betrayal of the confidences of the Court was intended to undermine the integrity of our operations, it will not succeed. The work of the Court will not be affected in any way.

We at the Court are blessed to have a workforce – permanent employees and law clerks alike – intensely loyal to the institution and dedicated to the rule of law. Court employees have an exemplary and important tradition of respecting the confidentiality of the judicial process and upholding the trust of the Court. This was a singular and egregious breach of that trust that is an affront to the Court and the community of public servants who work here.

I have directed the Marshal of the Court to launch an investigation into the source of the leak.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/publicinfo/press/pressreleases/pr_05-03-22

NSAman · 03-05-2022 7:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011380#Comment_119011380

Terrible, heard that Disney might have to stop calling him Mickey also....

VinLieger · 03-05-2022 7:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011379#Comment_119011379

Put your money where your mouth is, will you bet just 100 quid that no states will pass or re-anact laws that make abortion illegal within 4 years of Roe V Wade being abolished?

Also as at least 8 states still have pre-roe laws on their statues your statement is technically incorrect. Those laws are simply unenforceable thanks to roe v wade.

pjohnson · 03-05-2022 7:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011380#Comment_119011380

"Land of the free" was just a catchy brand/slogan. Most things over there are not what they brand themselves as. Look at the demented "democracy" they have.

MrMusician18 · 03-05-2022 7:57pm

Why should anyone in Ireland care about this?

Beyond destabilising the US political system further, it is of no consequence to people outside of the USA.

Boggles · 03-05-2022 8:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011412#Comment_119011412

Sure, there is no Irish people living in the US nor do any Irish people have friends or family there. 😕

joseywhales · 03-05-2022 8:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011412#Comment_119011412

I think it would be a bit naive to think that Irish culture is not influenced by American culture. Ireland might find itself being pulled in the same direction soon enough.

Also America is singularly the superpower, it influences every sector of the globe. We only need to see their influence in Ukraine recently(in sending aid and Intelligence and controlling the political narrative), to understand that us policy can have big ramifications in Europe.

tooka · 03-05-2022 8:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011399#Comment_119011399

I will pay a 100 to a charity if any state bans abortion fully , won’t happen

won’t happen and even now Texans can get an abortion in Texas even though all you read is you cannot

Boggles · 03-05-2022 8:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011399#Comment_119011399

That account won't exist in 4 months time let alone 4 years.

Faugheen · 03-05-2022 8:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011412#Comment_119011412

EVERY thread about US politics you do this bollocks.

People have their personal reasons while others just simply have an interest in it. Don't you worry about it.

Why do you care so much about the interests of other people?

Mr_Jacko · 03-05-2022 8:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119008310#Comment_119008310

The vast majority of Americans are in favor of abortion almost 70%... nothing "ultra liberal" about abortion when the vast majority of people both democrats/republicans want it. Surely having a legal service available for people to chose is better than taking the dangerous route which could potentially led to death i.e backstreet abortion, dodgy tablets..

Mr_Jacko · 03-05-2022 8:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119008899#Comment_119008899

and will same-sex marriage be next? sure that's not in the constitution? would you be happy removing that?

Overheal · 03-05-2022 8:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011438#Comment_119011438

What's the source for that?

tooka · 03-05-2022 8:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011474#Comment_119011474

Google it.

Abortion is big business in America and being fair the majority of Americans want abortion on tap

Mr_Jacko · 03-05-2022 8:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011482#Comment_119011482

Correct judgement my arse bet you'll be bullin to know I voted to repeal the 8th so your daughter will have the right to abortion 😉

Mr_Jacko · 03-05-2022 8:15pm

cheezums · 03-05-2022 8:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011412#Comment_119011412

the collapse of the USA which we are absolutely witnessing in real time, should be a worry to everyone.

Mr_Jacko · 03-05-2022 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011412#Comment_119011412

Because my father and his entire family are Irish/American

MrMusician18 · 03-05-2022 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011452#Comment_119011452

Because these threads are not about US politics, they are about US social issues, ones that are particularly unique to that country and are of no relevance to the Irish resident.

It also remains true that the importation of American causes is completely poisonous to our own political discourse.

The changes in the abortion laws in the US, will have no, zero impact on anyone resident in Ireland. The finer points of US state law might be of interest to our resident democrats, yourself and overheal but not many others. Waking up this morning one could be forgiven for thinking abortion had been banned here, such was the coverage.

The bigger picture, US stability, the bit that could impact Ireland has been completely lost.

Dyr · 03-05-2022 8:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011412#Comment_119011412

Cumann Ivana Bacik are welded to American liberalism. This is a big deal for them so expect endless media coverage in Ireland.

Overheal · 03-05-2022 8:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011494#Comment_119011494

Said without evidence; dismissed without evidence.

We have evidence to the contrary. Aforementioned in earlier posts.

Mr_Jacko · 03-05-2022 8:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011529#Comment_119011529

It certainly would have an impact on dual citizens for example my two cousins who are 9 and 13 (both female and born in America moved back to Ireland one year ago). If they ever decide to move back to States then they may not have the option to get an abortion if they need it, depending on whether they actually succeed in overturning Roe v Wade.

Mr_Jacko · 03-05-2022 8:27pm

US abortion polling data throughout the years...

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

Overheal · 03-05-2022 8:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011529#Comment_119011529

Because these threads are not about US politics, they are about US social issues

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/politics

Where did you get the idea that the laws and jurisprudence governing abortion, is not political, which by definition is also "the total complex of relations between people living in society" ie. a social issue?

The bigger picture, US stability, the bit that could impact Ireland has been completely lost.

Not sure where that's been lost, you've chosen to ignore it yourself, making it only a footnote in your larger argument making hay of, what you yourself suggest, takes attention away from that issue.

In the OP for example, I had included documenting that protests had already formed outside the steps of the Supreme Court just minutes after the publication occurred. That is the US stability issue too is it not. Rather than be a plaintiff of the discussion I entreat you to become a participant.

This article will be free to view until June from this link:

https://wapo.st/3LKf5kQ

Protests are propping up in the States too. After all the Alito decision hopes to punt the issue back to those lawmakers.

https://twitter.com/hartoutwest/status/1521557464201588736?s=20&t=l7KRIPBtSsvSULzbbq0Gyw

As it regards stability though, no reports of criminal reactions, or self immolations. The economic and social impacts of the decision if entered into effect could be wide reaching.

Foxtrol · 03-05-2022 8:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011399#Comment_119011399

Within 4 years it would be more likely that there would be an outright ban on abortions across all of the US than no state banning it post Roe V Wade being abolished.

JayPS 2288 · 03-05-2022 8:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119009101#Comment_119009101

Some states allow(ed) for unrestricted abortion with no term limit.

Foxtrol · 03-05-2022 8:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011473#Comment_119011473

The way the opinion is written means that practically every right that wasn't there when the constitution was written would be fair game when the Right are in power.

The worrying thing is that there are prominent progressive 'Bernie bro' types out there blaming the Democrats for this and claiming they won't vote for them again. Likely a reaction in part to cover up for how many of them set the ball rolling for this situation in 2016 and now rather than realising their error they're doubling down to watch what they claim to care about burn (which isn't too tough for them as many won't actually be personally impacted by it).

MrMusician18 · 03-05-2022 9:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011605#Comment_119011605

When you have to resort to the dictionary as an attack, you are not on to a winner.

Abortion has been a festering social issue in the States for decades, one that the political system has failed to tackle and one where both sides have used legal trickery and activist judges to get one over the other, making each bend to their will. The US needs to grasp this finally and deal with it head on and it needs the space to do it. It doesn't need every wannabe American sticking their oar in, much like we didn't need it when we debated the issue.

If this gets overturned, America needs to make laws that have a broad buy in and that may mean letting states do their own thing. It's something that should have been done 50 years ago.

The last thing the rest of the world needs is a USA further mired in division.

Overheal · 03-05-2022 9:03pm

"Pro-Life Spiderman" climbed a Californian skyscraper this morning to 'raise' awareness

https://www.mediaite.com/weird/watch-pro-life-spider-man-arrested-after-scaling-san-francisco-tower-for-anti-abortion-protest/

https://twitter.com/scottbudman/status/1521546948481720320?s=20&t=msfdT0He-zmzYQAdPFM5JA

Quite something!

Foxtrol · 03-05-2022 9:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011828#Comment_119011828

It is very naïve to believe that a group that believes that babies are being murdered are going to allow it to happen in some states when they'd have the power to ban it everywhere.

Even if they don't many states are already under minority rule due to gerrymandering and voter suppression - there is never going to 'broad buy-in' on the state level, forget about on a national basis

Overheal · 03-05-2022 9:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119011788#Comment_119011788

I supported Bernie in that primary; IIRC there were media reports of very strange goings on in the Democratic primary process, to tilt the result in favor of DNC figurehead Hillary, and away from Sanders who, technically is not a Democrat whatsoever but an Independent who frequently canvasses with Democrats in the Senate.

I agree with you this is the wrong thing to focus on or re-litigate for the progressive left. They frankly overstate, in many states for example, whether our votes meant anything at all. You could support an inanimate carbon rod, and all your friends could, but if it's not the GOP candidate, it's not getting elected to a South Carolina state level appointment. There are plenty of other post-mortems of the 2016 election, but I think it's fair to say that calling out 'bernistas' etc. as the reason why Hillary couldn't win without campaigning in several important battleground states, is missing a lot of key points.

Those are people going through the Anger stage. I get it. I even recall writing a post in the 2016 election thread, or Scalia's death thread, etc. where I had went and listed out every Justice in the past century, chronologged their tenures on the bench, and how that Hillary becoming POTUS would mean that, for the first time in more than a generation, there would be a majority of members on the Court who were not picked by Republicans, for a change. As I stated at the time, it would probably be a whole other generation before another such opportunity occured. And then they got not 2, but 3 seats filled. We know how it happened, most of us, because we have seen it 'happening' for years like a really slow car wreck or one of those bullet time scenes in an X-men movie. They're barking up the whole ass wrong tree there.