New patio is falling towards house..

Pawwed Rig

I would see what he says before getting too upset yet however if he won't rectify it I wouldn't be afraid to go down the legal route. Too many are doing shoddy quick jobs for big money and just walking away

muffler

Any sort of aco channel fitted now along the wall of the house is only a short term solution to a long term problem. These channels will block and there will then be a huge risk of water penetration to the internal floors. Ultimately removing the whole thing and changing the direction of the fall is the only solution.

Xcellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119004959#Comment_119004959

Yes. I'm hoping when he sees it he will sort it out. But I wouldn't let this one slide even if only got 2000 from small claims that would go someway.

C. Eastwood

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119004561#Comment_119004561

Xcellor

The workmanship in the flooded Patio is not in accordance with 3 of the 5 Purposes of the Building Regulations-for the Health Welfare and Safety of persons.

To be in compliance with the Building Regulations where the external ground is level with the internal floor level should only accept for disabled persons access and a longitudinal drain must be fitted at the door ope.

46EDA924-23B4-4EEE-933D-5D675CB49A1B.jpeg

6F9AB395-F821-4027-8160-F4383816DE6D.jpeg

Furthermore, the external ground must be 150 mm below the DPC, to be in compliance with the Building Regulations. Except when the external ground level is raised up at a door ope to allow access for Disabled Persons. The other parts of the patio must be 150 mm below the DPC.

My advice is - when something is not build correctly- tear everything down and go back to where it started to be done incorrectly.

What kind of an incompetent Gob 💩 installs a Patio without using a level.

Incompetent workmanship in the Building Industry is unbelievable.

And it is so simple to do correct construction.

Do not accept this crap, you will always be totally unsatisfied with it.

CreadanLady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119005012#Comment_119005012

I agree strongly with this. Aco drains are fine in theory, but in practice they are rarely a success. They are a maintenance burden an they inevitably block up if not kept after. A lip often develops between the channel edge and the paving, as often the paving subsides a tiny bit because I have yet to see a contractor who does proper compaction in layers. The result in ponding.

Aco drains are often not very durable either. How many places have you seen aco drains with missing or bent gratings - nearly always. But a lot of the time that is down to incorrect specification and getting the cheapest. For example, in a petrol station forecourt it should be heavy duty D400 channels, but most builders buy the light duty A75 and hope no-one will pull them up on it.

Long story short, footpaths and paved areas should always slope away from the building, unless there is a very good reason why they cannot.

A lazy contractor is not a good enough reason.

You need to bring him back and fúck him out of it to high heaven, then not pay him.

Xcellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119008713#Comment_119008713

He is mostly paid at this point- 1k left. Life lesson learned there...

What he has done is really not good - throughout the job i spoke multiple times about drainage and moving water away from house which isn't something I should have to know anything about but in my own DIY i've found its generally good not to forget where water will gather etc.

I am actually feeling sick with the whole thing, we had saved for the patio and were really looking forward to it and now it just feels like there is a problem there that we've paid for.

😭

sydthebeat

thats an absolute disaster. not only is the pooling an obvious problem, but the eventual staining and algae growth youre going to get on that will make it a death trap to walk on, directly outside your patio door.

there should be both an obvious fall to drain storm water away from the house walls AND an acco drainage channel (min 100mm) the full length of the patio where it meets the wall (as rain will be wind blown to that area above your house DPC)

take it up, do it again properly.

Snugbugrug28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119008821#Comment_119008821

Tell him youve had redress at court before and have no problem going through the process again.

The Continental Op

CreadanLady

Why on earth did you pay him in advance? You caught yourself out here.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119009035#Comment_119009035

Tradesmen have consumers over a barrel at this stage. It is their rules or they just don't turn up to do the job so the OP may not have had much of a choice. Equally it is reasonable to pay a proportion up front as materials etc need to be purchased.

Xcellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119009096#Comment_119009096

Yeah, i felt that if it wasn't paid then he goes somewhere else...

I paid up for the materials etc.

Hindsight is a great thing. But unfortunately won't help me here :(

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119008932#Comment_119008932

That's a bit extreme at this stage. The guy that made a balls of the job is due back with the OP today so let's hope some arrangement can be met.

CreadanLady

Threaten him with the tax man if he gives lip about not putting it right.

Very few builders would be squeaky clean when it comes to tax affairs, so the threat of a tax audit might focus his mind.

An the revenue have long known that building is a shady area when it comes to tax evasion so they will be only too happy to horse into him with an audit if a suspicion is brought to their attention.

you could say to him that you have a brother in law who is an auditor in the Revenue Commissioners.

OP I’m sorry for your trouble. That’s awful.

live my patio booked in for July. Two people who quoted wanted to pave on top of existing path. Only one said he’ll need to dig up the path to ensure a proper slope - so there are plenty of cowboys out there. I hope you can get it rectified but it certainly does need urgent attention.

Could I ask the experts something in addition ? So the patio should slope away from the house- great, but what then? Will you always get some pooling of water on a patio somewhere? Does the rain water all run into the grass at the end of the patio or what?

CreadanLady

Yeah it should just run off the end and soak away into the grass. As long as the grass or whatever is lower,obviously.

You won't get ponding on the paving if it is laid at a consistent fall.

hesker

Local conditions should be assessed to see if drainage channels are required at runoff perimeter. Above a certain area this is advised.

pavingexpert.com is a great resource

Xcellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119010148#Comment_119010148

There are walls surrounding the patio - part of the same job... The patio should have been laid to fall towards the wall and under patio there is a lot of 110 flexipipe which would carry the water down and into drain at side of house... Problem is the fall is the wrong way so water runs towards the house and the place where there is the worst drainage, sand + hardcore on top of existing concrete path so it drains VERY slowly...

CreadanLady

Sure how is the water supposed to get into the 110 flexi pipe? Through the joints? That might work for a while and in light rain but the joints will clog up after a while and you'll just get ponding. Also, that flexi pipe is notoriously diffcult to lay at proper falls. How do you know that he laid the pipe to a proper fall and gave it a proper permeable surround? And where does it outfall to?

Should be something like a couple of gullies or an aco drainage channel, discharging into a storm drain or to a soakaway.

Also, if he laid some of the paving over the footpath on a thin bedding, and the rest of it on hardcore off the footpath, then, unless he compacted the hardcore really thoroughly (which I doubt, because the never do because it requires time and effort) then it is only a matter of time before you see a step forming along the old kerb line because the off-path paving is settling down more than the paving on the footpath.

To be honest, this job sounds like an absolute dogs dinner by a total chancer that'll all have to be taken up and started from scratch.

Xcellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119010453#Comment_119010453

I don't disagree with anything you've said. I just doubt he's going to be able to give a fulsome resolution... he has the money. Yeah I could take him to court maybe get a 2k judgement but that wouldn't cover the repair...

This is the stuff of nightmares

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119010541#Comment_119010541

You said he was coming back today ... No show?

CreadanLady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119010541#Comment_119010541

Well, if he can't, then let the Revenue inspectors get to work on him. An audit from them will soften his cough fast enough.

Xcellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119010607#Comment_119010607

Family emergency he says. Should be back tomorrow...

CreadanLady

Yeah. It'll be some other excuse tomorrow, and another excuse the day and the week after.

I'd give him an ultimatum. Get back and get it done right, or get his tax affairs in order.

phormium

I feel your pain! I have a sinking patio that the guy did come back and look at, promised to come back and fix it and hasn't been seen for dust!.

I was going to cut my losses and just get the uneven slabs fixed but the new guy who looked at it says it all has to come up as it's uneven and sinking all over and needs to go down on concrete base. Now I know why first guy never came back to fix the 'few slabs', he knew full well to look at it that it was a full redo job.

The quote to fix which by the way new guy will only give as a 'cash' price is just about the limit of small claims court but of course I need a proper quote for that, that's fine I can probably get one but I seriously doubt I would ever see a penny of the money. I'd still be inclined to do it if I thought it would save other people from getting a bad job done by this guy but don't think there is anywhere to look that up or is it publicised anywhere? In fairness I did not think to look up if possible something like that before I hired him. I was totally happy with the work until the patio started buckling.

Local enough guy too, that doesn't seem to bother him about his reputation!

screamer

OP you’re gonna have to turn into a tough b@stard if you want to get any resolution here. You’ll have to like someone else said f&ck him out of it, no more money till fixed or f@ck off. No point being sick to your stomach etc, he won’t give a rats. Don’t part with another cent and BTW family emergency is the latest bs excuse they use for not coming back on time.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119010796#Comment_119010796

If he does agree to fix you might be better off just getting him to restore the footpath as it was and then redo the patio from the edge of the footpath. I know you wanted to get rid of the step into the house but I’m not sure it’s worth it.

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119010796#Comment_119010796

I'd say the odds are high of another excuse tomorrow. I've encountered similar issues with getting shoddy workmen back.

Best of luck . Be a nuisance if you have to.

Xcellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119010985#Comment_119010985

That would require significantly more excavation. Probably why he built on top of existing path. Patio goes out 5 meters from house and about 10 meters wide.

CreadanLady

If I got that that family emergency bullshít i'd be driving by their house and unless I saw either a hearse or an ambulance in the driveway, I'd be knocking on the door and demanding answers.

Unfortunately, with an awful lot of builders, the only thing that motivates them is a good red in the face public roaring match. It's the only thing they understand.