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New patio is falling towards house..

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  • 01-05-2022 5:24pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭


    I've just had a patio installed at back of house. Literally running onto both back doors. First day inspecting it and i notice there is fall towards house.

    I was explicit about drainage being a massive concern as back garden can be a marsh. He installed some flexi pipe under hard core to carry water away but having a fall towards house seems crazy.

    Guy is due back on Tuesday to finish the job. Would be a big job for him to pull up and relevel...

    Am I over thinking things?



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    OK so put half flow of hose pipe on and it ran towards the house and started pooling at the door... so I've a free water feature included:(



  • Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭Snugbugrug28


    Make sure the pool is there for him to see on Tuesday



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    Unfortunately it's very easy to demonstrate the problem. It's a large patio all it would take is a good persistent down pour and there would be serious risk of water coming through pvc doors...

    Absolutely gutted isn't the word.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭spakman


    At least he's coming back, so you can demonstrate it and get him to rectify.

    He can't leave it as is, if it's as bad as you say.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    Literally couple of minutes of hose at half "up stream". Water is deep enough to go into shoes and takes about 10 minutes to seep away.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    There are ducts that can be fitted along the footpath which are a solution... you must create a way for the water to go... i would not be happy with the flexi pipe...



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    The way he said was the drainage would be underneath and he laid a good bit of it. Problem with water is it takes path of least resistance so any gradient it will flow down rather than soak through sand and hard-core...

    So I'm seeing two options.

    Take up all slabs and level so fall is going away from house.

    Or install French drain along the entire side of the house...

    I wouldn't mind but I absolutely laboured the point of drainage and that the fall must be away from house. One of the reasons i selected the guy was he brought up drainage without me mentioning it and he also had experience working on Dublin Airport drainage system as a contractor...

    Here is the level going towards house..




  • Registered Users Posts: 45,955 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    The bonus is you will have your own tadpole pool every Spring. Kids will love it.

    Seriously though you need to get that sorted and now's the time to do so otherwise it will cause you grief for a long time to come.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,521 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    OP looking at your picture is looks a decent job and I wonder if the overall patio slopes away from the house and a small section near the patio doors had to be like that to keep the levels right?

    In which case there needs to be a strip drain along the front edge of the door.

    Edit> I don't see any major risk of flooding because as soon as that pool reaches a certain size it will drain away down the patio away from the house.

    Its not right but I don't think its as bad as you imagine but a right pain to put any drain in at this stage.

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,855 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    That's an awful job. Even if you had to have water going towards that direction you'd expect channel drainage to have been used at the wall.


    Terrible Terrible.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    I'm going to check but my initial look at it yesterday all measurements were falling towards house.

    Really not sure how they managed to get it so wrong.

    I was cursing rain at the weekend but actually it was very lucky as it made the problem evident...



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,855 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Its an abysmal job. He's laid it flat on the original house path and not dug enough out of the lawn area for the patio. Thus slopping the entire lawn side patio towards the house. It's extremely visible in the wall at the far side of the patio you can see the slope on the wall towards the house. It looks significant as it can be spotted easily by eye.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,521 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    The fall should be fairly obvious because the old rule of thumb was 1/4 inch for every foot which just shy of a 1 in 50 (1inch drop every 48 inches) sorry thats in old money.

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    Yep it's sadly quite a fundamental cockup.

    It's going to be quite a bit of labour to resolve.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,440 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Yup.. In my old house I was worried about water pooling by the patio door , so I had that type of drain put infront of the door , and connecting into the drain that the gutters drain into -

    Turned out I didn't have any water pooling, because I laid the paving on pea gravel and then grouted just with sand ... So it drys out in minutes .

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,855 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    But he doesn't have that. He has a big pool at his entrance door. This job was clearly done by a cowboy. I don't see any professional installer ever doing something like this. It's like something my da would have done in the 90s diy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Those tiles need to be re-done regardless of cost...



  • Registered Users Posts: 31,052 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Is is better to have fall towards a channel drain at the house, or fall away to a drain at the perimeter of the patio?

    Since the garden is wet already you don't want the rainwater just running on to the lawn.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,529 ✭✭✭jackboy


    It looks like slabs were placed on top of the footpath but then the rest of the patio slopes away from the house. A quick cheap job it looks like. He will probably tell you he couldn’t slope the part beside the door because of the footpath, but he should have discussed this properly with you before starting the job.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    I messaged the guy yesterday and he said he would take a look tomorrow. It's going to take more than a look to fix that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,440 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Or a proper drain put in against the wall of the house ...

    How much was paid in advance ? Did you provide the slabs ? Is there a chance that if you insist he start from scratch ,and the slabs aren't easy to lift cleanly that the builder decides to just feic off, cut his losses and leave you with the problem ?

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,529 ✭✭✭jackboy


    A fix, whether adding a drain or digging up the footpath is going to cost a lot of extra money. It would have made more sense to start the patio at the edge of the footpath.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    I'm afraid there isn't much cash left to pay him. Lessons learnt here... however he's local chap so would expect him to want to rectify it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,637 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    +1 on this type of solution. I have a couple of levels in my back garden and the patio itself had to slope towards my house to properly access already in situ drainage. To make sure that no real issue arose with pooling or flooding, my landscaper installed a channel drain the full width of the house.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    We have small kids so getting rid of step was part of the brief. I did ask him about Knocking out footpath but he said it wasn't necessary...

    I had an existing patio I put down myself and I said it was water logged when it rained and was important that water be taken care of so proper drainage...

    I'm actually sick to the stomach :(



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    That’s gonna be covered in algae and slippery from water sitting on it unfortunately. It looks like a diy job to be honest but I doubt he’ll redo the whole thing, he’ll try fill you full of some nonsense and at best will put a drain at the door



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,332 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I'd rip it all out.

    It's quite dangerous anyway to be raising external ground level up close to internal floor level but to have the water pooling against the house is a disaster.

    It should be sloping away plus have the drainage channel along the house.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    That would be my instinct but would say unlikely he will go for that.

    Drainage channel the length of patio is probably best I can hope for.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,529 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Just be careful and make sure he is capable of installing a neat effective drain. Looking at this job I wouldn’t just assume he has the ability.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Xcellor


    He has them bought for the side of house as he's putting concrete slab there and he's running it into down pipe.


    But of course he probably needs supervision at this point!

    Will have to see what he says on Tuesday... ugh.



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