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How to plug a pistol magazine?

  • 22-04-2022 12:21am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 230 ✭✭


    I got a new ruger mk iv today but the magazines are not plugged how would i go about plugging them not a easy as sticking a pencil down the shotgun tube.



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BSA International


    I got small timber dowel, cut it to length, painted it black, inserted it into mag spring (in MKIII mags).



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭clivej


    I cut up a pencil



  • Registered Users Posts: 329 ✭✭delboythedub


    I flattened a piece of lead to fit the spring in my plastic mag and it comes in handy when ejecting the empty mag from my Exeese



  • Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Munsterlad102


    There's no minimum standard for restricting magazine capacity. Anything that reduces capacity to 5 or less is allowed, that being said, wooden dowels or pencils are probably the easiest route.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,945 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Cut a notch and dimpled the cut in the side of the mag when loaded with 5 rounds under the follower.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Registered Users Posts: 875 ✭✭✭Wadi14


    I cut a small bit of plywood and dropped it inside the magazine spring.



  • Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    I cut a piece of metal wire and folded it into a rectangular shape using pliers, so that it is beneath the follower in the remaining space behind the spring, I didn't put anything down the centre of the spring to stop the follower as I thought it might interfere with the spring or make it compress unevenly. There is enough space for 5 rounds and a slight gap, but not even close to quarter of a round gap, if you leave it too tight to 5, it may cause problems picking up and feeding the first round.

    On another point, I spoke to someone recently, and they said they can't find it anywhere in legislation that the whole 5 round thing is actually stated in legislation, and while I have heard inaccurate stuff about firearms licencing (which I have later confirmed here and from reading the legislation myself), usually it has been from individuals erring on the more conservative side.

    I'll have to dig out my posts as my previous enquiries were about other things to find the relevant acts and amendments.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,978 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    I’d say they were looking at an original 2008 version and not the 2015 amendment.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    Thanks, if I see the chap again, I'll have to update him, by the way op, I used a metal coat hanger for the wire, ideal imo, light,easy to make a rectangular/slightly parallelogram shape.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,449 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    1874 - On another point, I spoke to someone recently, and they said they can't find it anywhere in legislation that the whole 5 round thing is actually stated in legislation

    SI21/2008 first introduced the restricted/non restricted "list" or what is what categories of firearms. It was later amended by SI337/2009 after the introduction of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous prvisions) Act 2009. It was this SI that amended the issue surrounding pistols effectively banning centrefire pistols (or more broadly, restricted short arms). It also amended the "gap" the PTB seen in the 2008 SI which only stated rimfire ammunition and they replaced it with lr so you could noly license air pistols and 22lr pistols.

    It was this SI (the 2009 one) that introduced the 5 round limit.

    The 2015 SI (SI 391/2015)was introduced to finally settle the ongoing issue around mag limits from the perspective of how they are restricted to 5 rounds and by what means as most manufacturers issued 10 rounds and there was conflicting interpretations from the various districts of AGS with some stations accepting mags being blocked by the owner and others demanding it be done by a gunsmith and be permanent.

    The 2015 SI amended part 5(b)(iii) of section 4 of the 2009 SI from "having a magazine of a capacity not greater than 5 rounds" to "modfieid orior to use" which meant that no matter the way the magazine was limited so long as it was, it was fine and must be accepted.

    All that aside the 2009 SI is where the 5 round limit began.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭smmember20


    Avoid guntering your magazines, a simple solution is to buy 6mm dowel in Woodies, a little measuring the follower with 5 rounds loaded, the dowel fits perfectly into the spring and does not effect function in any way other than restricting capacity, pic uploaded is a 22/45 mag but they are virtually the same as the MKIV




  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BSA International


    I did same. I did paint dowel black. Functions flawlessly.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    I loaded mine with 5 dummy rounds. Now it will only are 5 live rounds. Works a treat.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,449 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Just to be clear, you have a mag that is capable of holding more than 5 but you load 5 dummy and 5 live?

    If so you're admitting to a breach of the conditions of your license (assuming you don' hold a restricted license for the firearm) as the law clearly states that it can only be capable of holding no more than 5. Not only load 5.

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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    I don't have any such conditions, I was only playing devil's advocate.

    Seriously though, in such a situation the magazine is only capable of holding 5 rounds when the 5 dummy rounds are inserted. How is this different to installing a piece of wood which can also be removed? Not trying to start an argument, genuine question.

    I am open to correction but my understanding is that it is ilegal to load a semi auto pistol with 5 rounds in the magazine and one in the chamber on a non resitricted license but the license holder is trusted not to do this. Am I correct?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    The dummy rounds can be removed in a second or two without disassembling the magazine. A wooden dowel can't be so easily be removed.

    I glued the dowel in place in my magazines. I'm not saying that doing that is necessary but using dummy rounds wouldn't be acceptable in my opinion.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,449 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    2011 - I don't have any such conditions, I was only playing devil's advocate.

    Afraid not. There is no room for opinion here as its one area where the law is quite clear. The mag's capability, ammo wise, can not be more than 5.

    2011 - Seriously though, in such a situation the magazine is only capable of holding 5 rounds when the 5 dummy rounds are inserted. How is this different to installing a piece of wood which can also be removed? Not trying to start an argument, genuine question.

    But the magazine is capable of holding more than 5 as is proven by the insertion of the 5 dummy rounds. The law doesn't dictate what you load only that it can be loaded. Its the exact same issue as using 10 rounds in a 25 round mag for a semi auto 22lr. The law says if the mag is capable of holding more than 10 its restricted. So loading 15 dummy and 10 live still has you with a 25 round mag.

    2011 - I am open to correction but my understanding is that it is ilegal to load a semi auto pistol with 5 rounds in the magazine and one in the chamber on a non resitricted license but the license holder is trusted not to do this. Am I correct?

    This point was discussed before and some argued its allowed, others saying its not. The problem here, or the "grey area", is the chamber is not the mag and the law says only the mag must be limited to 5 rounds. So if you had one in the spout and someone asked you to drop out the mag and they counted the five rounds then technically you're in compliance with the law. I personally think its a risky thing (keeping one in the chamber) but to each their own.

    I'll say one thing, if it became prevalent enough the PTB might do what they done with the mag issue (albeit some 6 years later) and introduce an SI to stop the practice because they read these forums regularly. That is not opinon, we've been told outright they do.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭hayse


    A copper fasten solution needs to introduced as the blue Peter used by owners is indeed concerning.



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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    I agree that the dummy rounds can be removed in a second or two but the law makes no mention of any time limit to undoing this. So what if it takes a bit longer to remove a dowel?? If someone was planning to do something daft with a firearm they have all the time in the world to prepare.

    I appreciate that you have glued this dowel in place and I understand why. However, I would question whether this was necessiary to comply with the law. Again there is nothing in Law that states that glue (or similar) is a requirement.

    I am not saying that what you did was wrong / stupid, I too have gone above and beyond the minimum legal requirements too just to keep the PTB happy.

    This whole restricted to 5 rounds thing makes no sense to me, however I always make a point of ensuring that I fully comply with all legal requirements.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    "Afraid not. There is no room for opinion here as its one area where the law is quite clear. The mag's capability, ammo wise, can not be more than 5."

    We are just debating two ways of achieving the same goal. Both suggestions work, both are 100% reversable, the dowel just takes slighlty longer to remove. Anyway I think you know where I am comming from and you know where I am comming from. Like I said earlier I was just playing devil's advocate, this is not a condition I am required to comply with. I will leave it there.

    "I'll say one thing, if it became prevalent enough the PTB might do what they done with the mag issue"

    Not sure what you mean. What did they do?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    5 dummy rounds and 5 live rounds in your magazine doesn't comply with the legislation. That's 100% clear. If it can take 5 live rounds and 5 dummy rounds, then it can take 10 live rounds and that's a no no.

    I do agree with you that the five round thing makes no sense. It's a stupid rule given that you can have ten rounds in a rifle. I'd be in favour of them changing the legislation to allow six rounds in a magazine/revolver. This would make taking part in pistol competitions easier as most of them are shot in strings of six.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    I'd say that makes it sound like the magazines arent altered in any way to limit their capacity,I think its a risky and imo a careless stance, that if discovered, could ultimately lead to an ammemdment of the laws that will further restrict other pistol owners, who may end up having to go through further steps to confirm compliance.

    For example,if you or anyone who might test that the magazines referred to and their firearm and licencing is compliant with the law, then empties the magazine of all rounds,live and/or dummy, and then reloads with live rounds only, when they get to 5 rounds they will still be able to load as many live rounds as there are dummy versions or spaces to accomodate additional rounds. I'd say that when loaded into the pistol (that magazine,whether it is empty of any rounds or has 5 dummy rounds) is in breach of the law as it has a capacity to hold more than five rounds.

    Imo it will be viewed one way, and thats not good. Personally I wouldnt take the risk.

    While I dont agree with the whole 5 round limit,as many competitons you have to start with 6 rounds,ie one in the breech, which is not illegal in any circumstance and is reasonable as its part of recognised competitions,plus compliant magazines can be used.

    The above persons opinion in my view is incorrect and at the minimum they are jeopardising their own licence and may cause problems for others,seems pedantic to me.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,449 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    2011 - We are just debating two ways of achieving the same goal. Both suggestions work, both are 100% reversable, the dowel just takes slighlty longer to remove.

    Yes and no.

    We are discussing two ways, but one is legal the other is not. The issue is not what is loaded (as its a legal given it'll be ammo) but rather the amount that is loaded. So if you can get more than 5 into the mag then its either restricted or in the absence of an unrestricted license, illegal.

    The dowel can be removed as can any other amendment made to limit the mag to 5 rounds but the difference between the legal method (limiting the mag capacity) and "your way" is any removal of the dowel is apurposful act committed with the full knowledge its breaching the conditions of the license (again in the absence of a restricted license) and hence a criminal act. "Your way" is an accident and one that should never occur because there is no excuse under the legislation for "I forgot" or "I didn't know". In fact the Firearms act puts the onus squarely on the shoulders of the applicant to know exactly what they are applying for, the type of license and hence to do this you must know or have read up on what is legal/allowed and not.

    2011 - Not sure what you mean. What did they do?

    The SI to limit the mags was introduced in 2009, but because of 6 years or court cases, arguments, and refusals by various districts based on the Super's interpretation of the mag limit (they thought it should be manufactured to only hold five) the 2015 SI was introduced to clarify the position of the DoJ tha any method to restricted to the magazine prior to use was acceptable. Now there is either no, or very little, conflict regarding 22lr mag sizes.

    If people keep pushing the boat out by claiming that having a sith round in the chamber is not technically illegal they may very well introduce another SI to put the matter to bed.

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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    “While I dont agree with the whole 5 round limit,as many competitons you have to start with 6 rounds,ie one in the breech, which is not illegal in any circumstance and is reasonable as its part of recognised competitions,plus compliant magazines can be used.”

    It would seem that this (5+1 rounds) is as Cass said a “grey area”. Not as clear cut as you suggest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    While some of the arguments above hold SOME water, (either way), we can see from the 2019 EU act, (re: magazines for SA rifles) that the PTB have learned from their previous mistakes (usually from sites like this, and cert holders (trying to be smart (alecs) ), listing workarounds, that the PTB now have narrowed their definitions and descriptions to try to catch even more people.

    The fact that some of us on here, are pretending to be almost like advocate for the PTB, and offering them new avenues to attack us, does not help in any way (unless ?).

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,449 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Not doubting what you're saying, but just to be a little pedantic, I suppose, but this site had feck all to do with the 2019 SI. That was the PTB "transcribing" an EU directive into Irish law. A Directive which was a virtue signalling exercise and simple opportunity to get rid of "evil black guns" by the EU demagogues.

    As for everything else before that, yes, we're our own worst enemies however the biggest threat is those that work in secret, on their own agenda and happily sell entire other sections of the sport to save their own and not for moralistic reasons, but to retain control.

    However I'll stop there before this turns into a rant. That has been done to death and I've neither the time nor inclination for it anymore.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,945 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Wasnt so much reading here by the PTB that caused this 5 round nonsense. it was a certain elitist minority section, yapping on and on about THEIR sport ONLY needing 5 rounds in their international competitions,where THEY represent Ireland on the Intl stage when this came to a head. And providing the PTB with a list of approved pistols for THEIR disciplines. If that had passed,we would be stuck with a list of 12 approved guns that were state of the art technology 30 years ago.

    Geoffroy Boothryood once said " Guns are inherently stable objects, their biggest enemies are rust and politicians" He neglected to mention the politicians in the pro-gun and shooting groups are perhaps the worst enemies of all.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Registered Users Posts: 38,978 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    You are correct that the law doesn't state at time or difficulty required to reverse the modification. But you haven't actually haven't modified the magazine. But also doesn't say anything about only counting live rounds. 5 Live rounds, and 5 dummy rounds is 10

    You have a 10 round mag with 10 rounds in it (live and dummy). That’s pretty clear not allowed. I see it as the same having a 10 round ma and only loading 5 rounds.

    It’s the capacity that matters, not the number you have in it.



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