Scrambler problem - 3 Year Old run over

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118957910#Comment_118957910

Nope still doesn't make any sense.

This talk of seizure and fines started with post 5 but it mentioned "extortionate" fines - which I would support (although they probably shouldn't be allowed to claim them back at all as they have nowhere to legally and responsibly use them)

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118956547#Comment_118956547

It'd make you wonder what else is stashed away in these estates which the guards are too scared/lazy to do anything about, wouldn't it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118957962#Comment_118957962

This x 100 please

Leroy42

There is no need for 'extorinate' fees, or heavy handed punishments. If they fail the basic requirements of a motorised vehicle on a public space then they should be taken by the Garda and held until such a time as the proper legal papers (insurance, tax, licence) are produced. After a certain period of time, if not claimed, they can be disposed of.

If scamblers and quads meet the legal requirements of a public road vehicle then so be it, but then only those with insurance and a licence can drive them. Otherwise it an offence and the owner can be held legally liable if they knowingly allowed a non insured or licenced person to use their vehicle (the onus is, like a car driver, to prove they thought.

It really is only a lack of will to deal with the problem rather than any difficult issue.

As for using them off road, that land still belongs to someone, or the state. If owned by someone, then the user needs the owners permission, and the state won't give it.

irishproduce

The hard part is putting yourself in the shoes of the guards.

The hassle and intimidation involved in confiscating one is very off putting for guards. Add to that that the guards have to tiptoe carefully or find themselves hung out then you see there isn't an appetite there at all and that I'd just how the world works.

There will be a clampdown and enforcement will happen but unfortunately there will have to be a life sacrificed to create the media and public outrage that forces action. Until then not much will happen sadly.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118958626#Comment_118958626

It's a very sad state of affairs that someone would have to lose their life before the authorities crack down on this. This talk of putting yourself in a gardas shoes in nonsense, the people that sign to be gardai know what they are signing up to and should be expected to uphold the law and protect the law abiding citizens. Its not an excuse to not do it because it will be difficult or cause some trouble, it is part and parcel of the job and I am assuming that this is what they are trained to handle. If they can't handle it then what is the point of the gardai.

irishproduce

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118958749#Comment_118958749

And your last question there sadly is where we are. What is the point. Proactive action from them is not desirable because we've created a culture that encourages challenging the guards and championing the disadvantaged regardless what the disadvantaged are doing

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118958749#Comment_118958749

"Equality" has given us an impotent police force. 4'10" shortarse in you go, can't pass a fitness test in you go. There was a reason for height and fitness regulations in the past. We need to get past this "everyone is equal" nonsense.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118958749#Comment_118958749

The Irish Times report posted above is of a man who is arguably worse off than dead (in a vegetative state) after being run over while out having a picnic with his family. But, he's only a foreign national. So, you might have to qualify that state of affairs before the authorities might crack down on it. I'm fairly sure the (16 yr old) perpetrator was caught but didn't serve any time for it either.

Ham_Sandwich

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118959913#Comment_118959913

Well what do you want to do lock up a child for life over it? If there was a proper track in the area it wouldn't have happened, there's football and gaa pitches everywhere but not eveyone wants to kick a ball around all day build tracks and these kids will have somewhere to go and wont be going up and down roads and parks

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960098#Comment_118960098

Somebody is responsible. If not the child, due to age, then the parent. Lock them up for life, no, but there has to be serious consequences.

Of course not everybody wants to play football, but that doesn't give them the right to simply use whatever land they want and put others in danger.

You wouldn't accept car racers simply deciding that Mondello was too far away so just use the local roads. Why is this any different?

If people are interested in this, they should set about getting money together to rent some land, set up a club, develop a track. I'm sure there are companies that will help with sponsorship, apply for Government sport grants etc.

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960098#Comment_118960098

Over the incident plodder is referring to, where a man lost his eye and is in a permanent vegetative state?

Yes, I absolutely do want to lock up the perpetrator up for life over it.

Jequ0n

”She said her mother had remarked that the bike was going to hit somebody. Ten minutes later, she said the bike came from behind them and went "straight into Holly".

Strange, you’d think you’d watch your kids more closely if you had identified a potentially dangerous situation nearby.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960098#Comment_118960098

We've had years of this shyte. The poor assailant, little crathur was bored. Lock him up for life. He's taken another. Fed up of this namby pamby, give scumbags more and more to try to stop them being scumbags. It's obviously not working.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960324#Comment_118960324

Just because her child got knocked over doesn't mean she is a good parent. You would have to ask why the child was let out if scramblers are around

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960369#Comment_118960369

We are at peak victim blaming now. A parent bring their child to a park is not a good parent.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960384#Comment_118960384

Big jump....standard boards

If I went to a park and I seen scramblers flying around I would leave.

As I said at the start we should not have a situation to start with that a scrambler or a quad is in the park in the first place.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955968#Comment_118955968

I half agree... My view is license and insurance required for use in public space... I also things need be lightened for daylight use lights etc... I also think any young person should have bike taken if not legal... Older people big on spot fine...

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960392#Comment_118960392

That isn't the point. The issue is not whether the parent should have taken the child home, the issue is the use of unlicenced, uninsured, untaxed motor vehicles being driven on public land by inexperienced drivers.

Anything that happens due to that is the fault of the owner of said vehicle. All crime victims could have done something different. from having more security, not getting drunk, not getting lost in a part of the city. However, no matter what the victim did or didn't do, it in no way is to blame for what happened. That sits 100% squarely on the person on the vehicle.

I'll make a thought for you. What if the victims were deaf? Should they be held responsible as bad parents?

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960098#Comment_118960098

Ask me bollix. I'd have loved a scrambler as a teenager, but I wouldn't have had the cash to buy one. I wouldn't have had a hope of getting one from my parents. Why? because they 'parented'. If I'd been caught on one my auld fella would still have been waiting for his right boot to emerge from my arse 30 odd years later.

There are loads of things kids want. They don't get them because that's not the way the world works. Kids learn valuable lessons from 'NO'.

Years ago, I worked for a while in a youthreach centre that shall remain unnamed, in an area known for young fellas on scramblers. The grandmother (who worked in the centre canteen, lovely woman) of one of the students bought him a quad for Xmas one year. Because his mother couldn't afford it and he was causing murder at home till he got his way. He crashed it a few weeks later racing down the main road. Her response? Well, she replaced it of course. The same young prince was later fecked off his course in the YR centre for damaging a staff member's car in the gated car park (bent the driver's door down trying to rob it). As it happens, the car was mine, and when I reported the damage our manager went through the CCTV, clearly showing the little prick at it. I was urged to report the damage to the guards, but this being back when I was idealistic, I declined. Now, bear in mind, I didn't report the damage to management in the knowledge of who had done it, just that it had been done. Who got the blame for him being removed from his place on the course? Well, I did of course. Except for the granny, who had self-awareness enough to look embarrassed whenever we met.

Shortly before I finished up in the job a few years after, I arrived in to a sombre mood. A young child had been knocked down by another young prick in a stolen car the night before and was left with serious injuries. Who got the blame? Well, the guards did of course, for trying to stop the car.

This is what we're up against. There are areas of this city that will only be fixed by a program of mass sterilization (readers may note that my idealistic phase has drawn to a close...). Or, as a current colleague would suggest, building a 40ft wall around some estates, and not letting anybody under 20 out without a leaving cert, an apprenticeship, or a job.

mohawk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118956384#Comment_118956384

Last time that I drove through Limerick city two young teens were on a scrambler driving the wrong way down one way streets. They were a danger to themselves and other road users. So I can’t see any issue with fining parents.

I don't quite get the logic. Is Ireland supposed to be such an unsafe place that we can't rely on others to be careful?

It's a park, which should be a safe place for parents/children. Surely, the assumption would be that anyone on a motorised vehicle such as a scrambler or something similar, would have the required training, and cop on, to be careful of those around them?

There is far too much pandering and BS when it comes to teenagers in Ireland. These "toys" should be taken away from them, because they're not bloody toys. And nobody (of any age) should be allowed to use a scrambler or anything similar in a park where pedestrians are present, especially where young children are involved.

The fact that some people are making excuses or justifications for these teens is ridiculous and makes a mockery of common sense. Just think of the society that they will be joining in a few years time. Do you really want teenagers who have no respect for other people, and have no cop on? We used to want our teens to grow up in a responsible manner, but what have we replaced all that with?

Here's a vehicle that you can seriously hurt other people with, off you go now.. and remember have fun!

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118961724#Comment_118961724

The thing is that no one should be riding a scrambler up and down a public park where people are going to be there using the facilities in the park. The council should maybe look at how to secure the park to prevent idiots getting in there on scramblers.

Varik

They can go after the leaner driver and seize car there but can't for bikes/quads.

Cars have a paper trail and you'd get caught eventually even if you could get away, lot easier to hide away bikes especially when just around your own local area, claim ignorance, or just have you and all your knuckle dragging neighbours get in the way.

Give the guards power to seize them, and then have a requirement for the vin to be registered after proof of ownership supplied. Same bike shows up more than once then no fine just destroyed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118961984#Comment_118961984

Completely agree.

But at the same time, scramblers should be considered the same as driving a car... Teens shouldn't have access to them. Adults are supposedly held responsible for what they do.. teens generally aren't.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960163#Comment_118960163

I can guarantee you that many if not most of these lads would have no interest in that at all.

The mayhem they cause is the whole point of what they're doing. Make it legal and safe and what's the point?

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963392#Comment_118963392

100% agree. The scrotes on these scramblers have no interest in taking up a sport. Their sport is going out and causing as much mayhem and trouble they can.

Also if tracks are built it means that the bikes and riders would need to be registered for insurance and there would be a cost to that and none of those one the bikes will be interested in that.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960098#Comment_118960098

I think there's a track in Clontarf, or do you think the state should build one in every park? There are other concerns like noise, cost and whether it's actually a good use of public space.

If they aren't prepared to lock people up, then they need to confiscate lethal machines that aren't being used legally and safely.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118962063#Comment_118962063

Take the instance where a 14 y/o crashed a car and killed himself in Kerry some time back. A lot of 'ah shur god love him' reactions, very few 'wtaf is someone who is legally a child doing driving a car?'

We are a strange nation.

Ham_Sandwich

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118970250#Comment_118970250

what use is a track in clontarf to kids in finglas or blanchardstown or darndale? theres loads of waste grounds in these areas the goverment has money for everything else but nothing for deprived areas.