Scrambler problem - 3 Year Old run over

Ham_Sandwich

https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0417/1292828-scrambler-girl-injured/

Yet another accident involving scramblers surely it's past due time for the goverment to build tracks in these areas for the kids to ride there bikes around on whenever theres talk about these areas the usual crowd do be saying "theres loads to do in these areas no excuses" but thats only true if you like kicking a football around all day alot more kids are getting into riding bikes there should be tracks built for them so accidents dont happen again

Cannot really call them accidents when the above incident is entirely predictable, when scum and their offspring have been let do what they want since the 1990s.

This wont stop until summary justice is dispensed by bystanders as the government, judiciary and the legal caste will do nothing

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058242386/scrambler-problem-3-year-old-run-over

No need to build tracks at all. They would just be an insurance nightmare. So when one of them kills themselves who pays for it?

They should just be banned. I have no idea what sort of parent thinks buying a scrambler for a child living in a built up area is a good idea.

conorhal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955223#Comment_118955223

Building tracks for off-road bikes is indeed a pointless suggestion, as if chav parents that give their kids a dirt bike for Christmas are ever going to be the kind or responsible parents that put bikes in a trailer and then drives their kids to an off road track in the Dublin mountians or somewere to use them responsibly.

You could build a dozen dirt bike tracks and these same kids will still be tearing up the green spaces and roads (and as I've seen, foot-paths) in housing suburban estates anyway.

Just ban dirt bikes from urban use and arrest anybody using one on the streets and seize the bike.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955412#Comment_118955412

100%. No more of this pussy footing around by the authorities saying they can't do anything because the kids on the dirt bikes are under age. Here is what they can do, take the bikes of them and if they want them back they can go to the station with their parents and pay extortionate fine to get the bike back.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955412#Comment_118955412

Exactly, the people that want to buy and use a dirt bike responsible will do so anyway and will do so via a club/group

Time to ban them, end of story. Plus the selling of quad's in cities.

I shared on another thread, but a parent had a child on a quad which was seriously injured because a dirt bike crashed into it. Like what sort of a f**ked up scenario is that? first off why has a parent got a young child on a quad bike in the first place?

Ham_Sandwich

they cant be banned because farmers and other people need them and theres alot of young people who use them responsibly its only a small minority making it bad for the rest and tarring everyone who rides bikes with the one brush theres only a ew tracks in dublin and theyre very expensive to use theres loads of waste ground in these areas the council could build tracks in them and the goverment could insure them

Leroy42

They might not be possible to ban them outright, but there should be strict conditions. Insurance and motor tax for a start if being driven on public highway. Not allowed on public spaces without a permit, and permits are only given to specific areas, with the person having to join that club (s) to get the permit.

Minimum training requirements to use one without supervision.

Most of these sort of thing is already in place with regards to cars and normal motorbikes, so it is not that much of a stretch to include these types of bikes.

Large fines and confiscation of the bikes if these rules are not followed. No need for the government to get involved in insurance. The person using the bike, or their parents, assume the risk. Failure to have at least 3rd party should be an offence.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955855#Comment_118955855

Nobody has a problem with the people using the bikes for sport or for work such as farming as you say, that's the bikes being used for what they were designed for.

The kids in these estates, most are under age as well, that ride these bikes have no interest in using the bikes on a track, all they are interested in is being able to tear up and down the park and just be a nuisance. No amount of official tracks or whatever is going to change that. Any kids that interested in bikes for sport will not be tearing up and down parks and being a nuisance.

Cordell

Isn't it already illegal to drive a motor vehicle on public roads without proper paperwork, that is road worthiness, registration, tax and insurance? Isn't it already illegal to drive a motor vehicle on parks and footpaths? There is no need for additional laws, just enforce the existing ones. Impound the scrambler until proof of tax and insurance is produced, scrap it after the deadline expires. Prosecute parents who give motor vehicles to minors. It's not that hard.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955898#Comment_118955898

They should be confiscated and destroyed within 48 hours if they have no licence, tax or insurance. No excuses, no second chances.

conorhal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955855#Comment_118955855

I suggested banning them from ROADS (which in fairness, they probably already are in which case it's a matter of enforcement). They have no place on the roads, so nobody using them legitimately has any cause for concern.

Also, let some private leasure company build off road tracks, such things are not an amenity the government needs to be providing at a time when money can be better spent elsewhere. If private tracks are expensive then don't buy your kids dirt bikes if you can't afford to run them properly. Same for horses, if you don't have a couple of acres or can afford to stable them, don't buy one, and don't expect me to pay for it if you do.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955855#Comment_118955855

No farmers use dirt bikes. Yes a quad but they all source via tractor dealers etc and easy to regulate that

Banning for sale to general public is easy, if someone wants to use correctly they should have option to buy via a registered club with facilities to use.

Similar is done with guns so it's not like it unheard of

Nobody living in a built up area needs a dirt bike or a quad to drive around with unless they are on a designated track

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955917#Comment_118955917

Illegal if you aren't a scrote yes. The Garda station in Ballymun is massive and they literally sit there watching them flying around the place and do nothing. If I took my motorbike that I pay insurance for, tax, am fully licenced for and an actually legally allowed to use on the road and wheelied it up footpaths at 40mph I'd be arrested. I wonder how they can't stop them - so puzzling!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955855#Comment_118955855

Just restrict usage by age. No different from any other form of motorised transport. Adults can bear the brunt for their negligence or stupidity.

And when you say build tracks and the government insure them, that just places the taxpayer paying out to loads of accident compensations. There's no need for any of this. Give the teenager a bicycle. Much better for them and the environment.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955551#Comment_118955551

Solution: legalized extortion. That’s a great route for policing to take…

whomitconcerns

It's a great idea and the only one that will work. Confiscate and then 48 hours later destroy or donate to some outside the city facility that can accommodate safe usage

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118956338#Comment_118956338

They are already restricted, still doesn't stop daddy going in and buying for his 12 year old and sending him out on it......

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118956335#Comment_118956335

TBH I can see why they choose to do nothing: if they were to pursuit and try to stop these scrotes sooner or later one of them will get hurt and then the pitchforks will come out.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118956478#Comment_118956478

the sins of the son be visited on the father. The father should then be held responsible for what the son does, and treated exactly as if he had done them himself.

conorhal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118956384#Comment_118956384

Legalized extortion? LOL Is jailing somebody for murder legalised kidnapping in that case? What a stupid comment.

If it's legaized extortion then it is then it's extortion that's easily avoided by running your off road dirt bike, you know, OFF ROAD.

whippet

you can imagine the scenes ... first off you have to stop the scrote on the bike .. how do you do that without putting more people at risk (police forces around the world tend to back off when there is a danger in a chase) ... secondly when you do stop them / catch up with them ... you'd need a riot squad to do anything as the feral scrotes will form a mob and guards will be at serious risk of being attacked.

There isn't a salary in the world large enough to make me go in to one of these estates unarmed and try take a young fella's scrambler off him. And the bigger problem is that they know it so they have carte blanche to do what they like

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118956547#Comment_118956547

I'd suggest a long pole / clothesline...

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118956527#Comment_118956527

Perhaps reread the comment I quoted. Off road? On your lawn, tearing donuts in the park? What a stupid comment.

conorhal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118956638#Comment_118956638

I did read the comment, it ammounts to 'take the bike off offenders and fine the crap out of them', so spare me your semantic nonsense about 'on a lawn, in a park', or riding it vertically up the spire in O'Connell St for that matter, those are all places these machines don't belong. What's your objection to seizing the bikes for their inappropriate use exactly? Are you advocating for people to scramble in the front garden and public parks? We already know how badly that worked out: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/the-motorbike-ran-over-my-husband-and-crushed-his-face-1.3624025

Since I presume you're not advocating for that, what exactly is your problem with the taking dirt bikes off dirtbags running them in any of those places?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118956742#Comment_118956742

My original comment was self explanatory. I’m not a lawyer but reasonably confident the law does not support ‘exploitative’ fines, in Ireland and in most jurisdictions.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118956524#Comment_118956524

100%

it is too easy for parents to just let kids off and have no repercussions. It is time the parents had to pay up

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118956992#Comment_118956992

Any motor vehicle used in a public place without tax and insurance can be seized and won't be released until a fine is paid. WTF are you on about, seriously?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118957888#Comment_118957888

The associated fine is not “exploitative” that’s clearly what I’m on about.

JayPS 2288

Is there anything to be said for making children’s allowance a tax credit and reducing lone parent’s allowance and dole for each offence committed by the parents or child. 5% for the first offence, a further 10% for the second, 20% for the third, 40% for the fourth, and so on.

Hitlerish, but what must be done be done.

Overheal

If you are endorsing your own idea as “hitlerish, but” … lol

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118957910#Comment_118957910

Nope still doesn't make any sense.

This talk of seizure and fines started with post 5 but it mentioned "extortionate" fines - which I would support (although they probably shouldn't be allowed to claim them back at all as they have nowhere to legally and responsibly use them)

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118956547#Comment_118956547

It'd make you wonder what else is stashed away in these estates which the guards are too scared/lazy to do anything about, wouldn't it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118957962#Comment_118957962

This x 100 please

Leroy42

There is no need for 'extorinate' fees, or heavy handed punishments. If they fail the basic requirements of a motorised vehicle on a public space then they should be taken by the Garda and held until such a time as the proper legal papers (insurance, tax, licence) are produced. After a certain period of time, if not claimed, they can be disposed of.

If scamblers and quads meet the legal requirements of a public road vehicle then so be it, but then only those with insurance and a licence can drive them. Otherwise it an offence and the owner can be held legally liable if they knowingly allowed a non insured or licenced person to use their vehicle (the onus is, like a car driver, to prove they thought.

It really is only a lack of will to deal with the problem rather than any difficult issue.

As for using them off road, that land still belongs to someone, or the state. If owned by someone, then the user needs the owners permission, and the state won't give it.

irishproduce

The hard part is putting yourself in the shoes of the guards.

The hassle and intimidation involved in confiscating one is very off putting for guards. Add to that that the guards have to tiptoe carefully or find themselves hung out then you see there isn't an appetite there at all and that I'd just how the world works.

There will be a clampdown and enforcement will happen but unfortunately there will have to be a life sacrificed to create the media and public outrage that forces action. Until then not much will happen sadly.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118958626#Comment_118958626

It's a very sad state of affairs that someone would have to lose their life before the authorities crack down on this. This talk of putting yourself in a gardas shoes in nonsense, the people that sign to be gardai know what they are signing up to and should be expected to uphold the law and protect the law abiding citizens. Its not an excuse to not do it because it will be difficult or cause some trouble, it is part and parcel of the job and I am assuming that this is what they are trained to handle. If they can't handle it then what is the point of the gardai.

irishproduce

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118958749#Comment_118958749

And your last question there sadly is where we are. What is the point. Proactive action from them is not desirable because we've created a culture that encourages challenging the guards and championing the disadvantaged regardless what the disadvantaged are doing

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118958749#Comment_118958749

"Equality" has given us an impotent police force. 4'10" shortarse in you go, can't pass a fitness test in you go. There was a reason for height and fitness regulations in the past. We need to get past this "everyone is equal" nonsense.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118958749#Comment_118958749

The Irish Times report posted above is of a man who is arguably worse off than dead (in a vegetative state) after being run over while out having a picnic with his family. But, he's only a foreign national. So, you might have to qualify that state of affairs before the authorities might crack down on it. I'm fairly sure the (16 yr old) perpetrator was caught but didn't serve any time for it either.

Ham_Sandwich

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118959913#Comment_118959913

Well what do you want to do lock up a child for life over it? If there was a proper track in the area it wouldn't have happened, there's football and gaa pitches everywhere but not eveyone wants to kick a ball around all day build tracks and these kids will have somewhere to go and wont be going up and down roads and parks

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960098#Comment_118960098

Somebody is responsible. If not the child, due to age, then the parent. Lock them up for life, no, but there has to be serious consequences.

Of course not everybody wants to play football, but that doesn't give them the right to simply use whatever land they want and put others in danger.

You wouldn't accept car racers simply deciding that Mondello was too far away so just use the local roads. Why is this any different?

If people are interested in this, they should set about getting money together to rent some land, set up a club, develop a track. I'm sure there are companies that will help with sponsorship, apply for Government sport grants etc.

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960098#Comment_118960098

Over the incident plodder is referring to, where a man lost his eye and is in a permanent vegetative state?

Yes, I absolutely do want to lock up the perpetrator up for life over it.

Jequ0n

”She said her mother had remarked that the bike was going to hit somebody. Ten minutes later, she said the bike came from behind them and went "straight into Holly".

Strange, you’d think you’d watch your kids more closely if you had identified a potentially dangerous situation nearby.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960098#Comment_118960098

We've had years of this shyte. The poor assailant, little crathur was bored. Lock him up for life. He's taken another. Fed up of this namby pamby, give scumbags more and more to try to stop them being scumbags. It's obviously not working.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960324#Comment_118960324

Just because her child got knocked over doesn't mean she is a good parent. You would have to ask why the child was let out if scramblers are around

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960369#Comment_118960369

We are at peak victim blaming now. A parent bring their child to a park is not a good parent.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960384#Comment_118960384

Big jump....standard boards

If I went to a park and I seen scramblers flying around I would leave.

As I said at the start we should not have a situation to start with that a scrambler or a quad is in the park in the first place.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955968#Comment_118955968

I half agree... My view is license and insurance required for use in public space... I also things need be lightened for daylight use lights etc... I also think any young person should have bike taken if not legal... Older people big on spot fine...

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960392#Comment_118960392

That isn't the point. The issue is not whether the parent should have taken the child home, the issue is the use of unlicenced, uninsured, untaxed motor vehicles being driven on public land by inexperienced drivers.

Anything that happens due to that is the fault of the owner of said vehicle. All crime victims could have done something different. from having more security, not getting drunk, not getting lost in a part of the city. However, no matter what the victim did or didn't do, it in no way is to blame for what happened. That sits 100% squarely on the person on the vehicle.

I'll make a thought for you. What if the victims were deaf? Should they be held responsible as bad parents?

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960098#Comment_118960098

Ask me bollix. I'd have loved a scrambler as a teenager, but I wouldn't have had the cash to buy one. I wouldn't have had a hope of getting one from my parents. Why? because they 'parented'. If I'd been caught on one my auld fella would still have been waiting for his right boot to emerge from my arse 30 odd years later.

There are loads of things kids want. They don't get them because that's not the way the world works. Kids learn valuable lessons from 'NO'.

Years ago, I worked for a while in a youthreach centre that shall remain unnamed, in an area known for young fellas on scramblers. The grandmother (who worked in the centre canteen, lovely woman) of one of the students bought him a quad for Xmas one year. Because his mother couldn't afford it and he was causing murder at home till he got his way. He crashed it a few weeks later racing down the main road. Her response? Well, she replaced it of course. The same young prince was later fecked off his course in the YR centre for damaging a staff member's car in the gated car park (bent the driver's door down trying to rob it). As it happens, the car was mine, and when I reported the damage our manager went through the CCTV, clearly showing the little prick at it. I was urged to report the damage to the guards, but this being back when I was idealistic, I declined. Now, bear in mind, I didn't report the damage to management in the knowledge of who had done it, just that it had been done. Who got the blame for him being removed from his place on the course? Well, I did of course. Except for the granny, who had self-awareness enough to look embarrassed whenever we met.

Shortly before I finished up in the job a few years after, I arrived in to a sombre mood. A young child had been knocked down by another young prick in a stolen car the night before and was left with serious injuries. Who got the blame? Well, the guards did of course, for trying to stop the car.

This is what we're up against. There are areas of this city that will only be fixed by a program of mass sterilization (readers may note that my idealistic phase has drawn to a close...). Or, as a current colleague would suggest, building a 40ft wall around some estates, and not letting anybody under 20 out without a leaving cert, an apprenticeship, or a job.