The annual Teachers threaten to strike thread

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118966779#Comment_118966779

You can clearly read my posts and it should be very clear as to what I said.

You may re-read them if you wish and Then you can take back the 'you' in your statement.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118966821#Comment_118966821

It is unclear whether you were agreeing or disageeing with Andrew or whatabouting, I'm sure that can be cleared up and I can then retract the "you" (hence why I added "appeared" as it wasn't clear, or you can keep climbing higher in ambiguity...).

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118967001#Comment_118967001

It is very clear as to what I said and what I didn't say. Nothing ambiguous in the slightest. Crystal clear in fact.

'Sure, but you and others were arguing it wasn't an extra day at all ....'

It can be cleared up by quoting me where I said it.

You are clearly mistaken or engaging in whataboutery yourself.

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963919#Comment_118963919

It was an extra day in the sense the bank holiday got parachuted in to March 18th by Govt

Schools and Teachers already had the 18th booked off.

A majority of schools and teachers decided at the last minute to close schools on 21st as they wanted a bumper 5-day weekend (apparently not grateful enough with the 4-day weekend already planned for).

Nobody is out to deny the teachers their bank holiday - they got the 18th off as did everyone else.

What they should have done is not close schools on March 21st with little notice to parents. Teachers should have stuck to the agreed calendar and took their extra day off at another point in the school year and in a fashion that did not cause schools to close.

Students have already missed much school time owing to Covid - teachers were more worried about getting a 5-day bumper weekend than they were about students getting as much ground back that they lost over the last two years is the crux of this as displayed by their actions.

And before someone comes out with it being unfair that students would have one extra day in school over teachers ... well, the legislation says workers when it comes to bank holidays - nowhere in the legislation (https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/33/section/9/enacted/en/html) are students mentioned.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118967077#Comment_118967077

I think everyone can just assume that you and Andrew disagree until you correct the record otherwise then, no quotes needed, I thought you were in agreement, but your anger at that suggestion says otherwise.

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118967881#Comment_118967881

I think everyone can just assume you know you were wrong and won't simply admit it.

You made an assertion but believe I need to correct the record - priceless 😁

Trying to portray that I am angry is fairly bottom rung stuff, but if that is your posting style, then so be it.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118967955#Comment_118967955

Bloody hell, agree or don't agree with Andrew, whichever you want, I'll happily retract if you don't agree and let the thread move on from a perceived slight (I took your essay on the number of school days in a year as being in agreement, but if I am wrong about that I'll admit it no problem).

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118968342#Comment_118968342

Whether I agree or disagree with Andrew is not the issue, as you well know.

'You and others were arguing it wasn't an extra day off....'

Where was I arguing it wasn't an extra day off? It isn't a perceived slight, it's a blatant one.

If you cannot show me a post of mine where I was, then simply accept you were wrong and move on.

I agree the thread needs to move on - but if you are going to make a statement like you did, back it up when called upon.

Had you done so when I first asked....

I am sick of teachers' behaviour during this pandemic. Short notice days off, training days, sending children home that are not sick because they coughed. Really sickened that when they were off they were not redeployed to contact tracing or support roles and still got their full pay. should have got PUP. All bleating how at risk they were also. I suspect they were amongst the least risky public facing jobs for hospitalisation and death.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118969023#Comment_118969023

Short notice days off ! As a teacher, myself (or any teacher unions for that matter) ever had any day in the days off. We were told by management and that was that. So direct your ire elsewhere.

Training Days: I agree, total waste of time most of the time, I'd rather be in class.

Sending Children home: Never happened in my school. Happened in my kids school though, but in fairness that was at the direction of HSE advice and school management decision, so again... Misdirected ire.

"When they were off": Yes teachers did volunteer for contact tracing as we didn't know what the situation was with teaching online (online teaching wasn't actually a thing initially, and is it still a thing now?). It had never been done before on such a scale. It was a crises situation so saying they should have done X or y is a bit of a low blow. Teachers were looking for guidance from the department of education but it came about a year later, and pretty bland at that. Any teacher I know did what they could while (like other ordinary folk like yourself) had to look after family. Our school switched from a student email system to the MS Office platform over the space of a few weeks. Which is no mean feat for any organisation off premises.

Many teachers would have been delighted to get the PUP as the nature of their contacts were so precarious.

Risk was hard to ascertain, because it's a largely female workforce there were a lot of concerned pregnant teachers. I think it's reasonable to say they felt at risk. We also know that they were assigned high risk by GPs but downgraded by Medmark. That stinks. Our school was good but in other schools there were students who thought coughing and spitting and refusing to wear masks was funny. I can appreciate the concern.

Ten of Swords

Mod - Can we get back on topic please and move the discussion forward?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118969309#Comment_118969309

Principal and VPs and boards of management have teachers on them ? Principal and VP are teachers too.

Good on you re not sending children home who coughed after drinking something or clearing throat. It was widespread though

Re online learning, teaching and communication. Every sector dived into it, not just education, with all the frustration and teething trouble this change entailed.

Medmark is occupational health doctors, so more expertise than a GP re risk. Just because someone feels at risk does not mean they are at a greater risk than other pregnant people.

Re student misbehaviour.. suspend them for a few days for the above behaviour.

Shopworkers, creche workers, office workers, gardai, meat factory workers, any sort of worker in a congregated setting(whether pregnant or not) by and large got on with it

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118969805#Comment_118969805

With the greatest of respect, but move the discussion forward to what? It’s the same misinformed points being made over and over again and the usual suspects have no interest in listening to anything else.

briangriffin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118970309#Comment_118970309

Every other sector involves adults dealing with adults, schools and specifically primary schools had very young children trying to engage with online learning for the very first time, that created many problems especially for parents with multiple kids. That's not an excuse for the teachers who didn't do what they should of done, I did and had many parents ring me saying they couldn't manage to get the kids online and were leaving it, others rang saying the kids were too anxious and stressed to do schoolwork. That created difficulties especially for the marginalised kids, the academic ones seemed to take it in their stride in my experience.

Children are very rarely suspended in primary school and robust code of conduct procedures have to be followed, good luck trying to get a child suspended for deliberately coughing or sneezing on someone, id imagine there would be a lawsuit within hours of it happening.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963922#Comment_118963922

So if we going by your effective pay cuts theory..Then the same argument can be made as to why teachers (who had a 2 year period where they more or less phoned it in) have no bother giving the rest of the population an effective pay cut via increased taxation or increased borrowing or by cuts to other essential services so that they get their pay rise as there is no other way to pay this pay rise.. Thanks but no thanks

gct

Re :The annual Teachers threaten to strike thread

Back on topic, Isn't it their democratic right to strike or even threaten to strike? Good luck to them. Why should they, or any other sector take a hit because greedy speculators and businesses decide to price gouge.

Too many people on here seem to be taking life far too seriously! let it go! Your life will be much happier.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118972978#Comment_118972978

Ehhh no there is a direct correlation to what is paid in public sector pay and pension as to what the tax payer has to pay, borrow or lose in essential services as there is no other way to get this money. It has been going on for too long now the tail has been wagging the dog and this crap needs to be tackled. People are starting to realize it and its crystal clear when you see the p1ss poor services for areas like services for autistic kids (which are an absolute disgrace in this country) and housing along with the pain felt after paying out on income tax and these jokers who seesawed their way through the pandemic think they should be first in the queue for a pay rise its just like the corona vaccination they thought they should be first in the queue while doing all teaching online. Its laughable

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118972978#Comment_118972978

Brexit/Covid/war in Ukraine, and this loon thinks it’s local speculators and price gougers causing inflation.

There may be a right to strike, there is no entitlement for people to support it though.

Quitelife

Teachers who ultimately get to a salary of 73,000 without any performance management with 3 months holidays a year is a great number in any reasonable persons eyes and you also have a gold plated pension at the end.

95% of people in private industry will never achieve anything close to this scenario plus the country is broke from trying to pay public sector wage bill and DB pensions.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118967672#Comment_118967672

How could they take  their extra day off at another point in the school year and in a fashion that did not cause schools to close? What fashion did you have in mind?

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975293#Comment_118975293

Teacher A books off March 25th, Teacher B books off April 4th, Teacher C books off April 21st, and so forth... if planned right it means there are enough teachers in the school to permit it to stay open.

Believe it or not this happens continuously in the retail, hospitality, healthcare, policing, prison sectors and others too and is a given. But teachers are special.

deiseindublin

Who supervises or teaches the students when their teacher is out?

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975998#Comment_118975998

Who supervises or teaches when a teacher is out unplanned?

Are schools that robotic in thought that they cannot find some simple solutions to simple problems such as a teacher out for a day.

If this is the level of thinking with teachers then our education system is in a worse state than I thought. 🙄

joebloggs32

Your proposal would effectively deny bus drivers their bank holiday as they have a set number of days per year to provide the sevice. The new bank holiday reduced this by one day but you want them to turn up for the same number of days as in other years.

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118976529#Comment_118976529

Did the bus drivers not get March the 18th off this year? If they did, they got their Bank Holiday, so no - they were not denied it.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118973092#Comment_118973092

Although PS pay and pensions is obviously a big chunk of public exp, note that it's not as big a share as you might expect.

2018: 22,116m out of 76,404m, so 29%

2021: 25,951m out of 101,544m, so 25.5%

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971127#Comment_118971127

Its the same argument because teachers continue to try and skip the queue and use unions to squeeze even more out of the tax payer. So if they stop with their rediculous claims of even more pay rises on top of the already agreed pay rises then the points and they are valid points will stop. No one has answered the one point of contention here. If teachers or the public sector get a pay rise where does the money come from as its in affect a pay cut for everyone else.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118976705#Comment_118976705

Yeah Geuze it is as it has been over 1/4 of our spend for the majority of the last 2 decades and for the money going in just evaporates and we are getting a p1ss poor return for it in a lot of areas. We had a great opertunity after the last crash to clean the place up but politicians would of been the first on the list and they shied away from it.

The correlation between what we spend in Public sector pay and pensions and any increase in pay rises are in effect a pay cut for everyone else as the money can only be got in three ways

An increase in tax

A cut in essential services

Or more borrowing (so our kids and grand kids can continue to pay public sector pensions while they cant afford to buy a house.)

So It is a big share it always has been. In those 3 years a lot of the increase will have been for PUP/TWSS payments. Take that out and what is the % (as PUP/TWSS/EWSS is going) 16.7 billion is the figure for last year. So take that away from the overall spend. So it leaves a figure of 85 (84.7Billion) and now the % is 30.6% The last 3 years the expenditure ballooned due to the temporary measures for payments in covid so it will be down a hell of a lot for 2022(as it is being phased out) and will be completely gone in 2023. The 4 billion added to the public sector pay and pensions is now a yearly expense with the knock on to pensions for the future. This is before the additional pay rises for this year and next year (that have been already agreed)

Quitelife

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118976705#Comment_118976705

Its 16% in Germany and 18% in France, Teachers dont get to earn 73,000 in Germany or France

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978045#Comment_118978045

Teachers don’t pay Irish prices for mortgage, rent, food, cars, insurance in Germany or France.