The annual Teachers threaten to strike thread

machiavellianme

It's Easter break once again so that can only mean that the great minds at INTO, TUI and ASTI get their members together to dream up new reasons for action, or at least to threaten it. Apparently now they are suffering from excessive workload to boot. I guess it is rather hard to continue to outsmart such young minds in so few hours.

So what say you, wise folk of boards.ie, do this special bunch warrant being singled out for inflation matching wage hikes? Will it spill over to other areas of the Public and Civil service, thereby promoting further inflation?

Ah the annual attack the teachers thread..........

StevenToast

Won't someone please think of the teachers......

green123

Are they really trying to argue that a starting salary of almost 40k is not enough for someone straight out of college?

oceanman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058242380/the-annual-teachers-threaten-to-strike-thread

ah but in fairness its hard being a teacher, they have to work a whole six months out of every year....not easy.

machiavellianme

Let's face it, it's an employee's market out there at present. If the poor teachers are so skilled and think they'd have less stress and workload elsewhere, why don't they pivot and do something else? See how much the rest of the world value their skills of correcting spelling mistakes and 2nd level math. Instead, they'd rather moan and threaten in the hope of getting more for less, while the rest of us fund them.

SEPT 23 1989

you would think after the show they made of themselves during the pandemic they would keep their heads down

Faugheen

Here we go, a bunch of clueless people throwing out the same moronic soundbytes about an issue they know f*ck all about.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946228#Comment_118946228

38,192 is a good starting salary, yes.

https://www.tui.ie/welcome-to-our-website/common-basic-scale-post-1111.5778.html

However, note that qualified accountants in Dublin start on 45k+, and I heard recently of a qualified sol starting in A&L Goodbody on 72k.

The teachers spends 5 or 6 years in college, with fees of 20k approx.

The accountant/sol spends 3yrs in college (9k fees) plus 3.5 yrs in a paid apprenticeship.

green123

38 thousand starting salary straight out of college

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946262#Comment_118946262

You go do it then if it’s so handy.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946262#Comment_118946262

Note that loads of teachers do not get full hours, so they don't earn 38,192 in their first year working.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946251#Comment_118946251

Precisely. You'd think that the teachers would learn to shut up about things at this stage since they've never really left the school mentality behind.

Economics101

The Accountants or Solicitors mentioned will not have the same job security, pension arrangements, or holiday entitlements as teachers.

Geuze

How does 38,192 in 2022 compare?

Here are the salaries of graduates of 2015-2018 from an MSc in Information Systems:

25-30k = 38.75%

30-40k = 36.25%

40-50k = 12.5%

50-70k = 6.25%

https://www.nuigalway.ie/courses/taught-postgraduate-courses/information-systems-management.html#course_why

Bear in mind that those MSc MIS graduate wages are higher by now.

The 38,192 is good, but not all teachers get full hours, and wages grow faster in other jobs.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946259#Comment_118946259

Teachers used to be qualified after 3 years but they increased it to 4 for Primary school teachers back in the early naughties. Secondary school is equally onerous. Some continue to do Masters or Higher Diplomas while already teaching.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946320#Comment_118946320

I see you’re trying to be funny but you’re the type of person I am talking about.

Why don’t you ‘learn to shut up about things’ you know nothing about?

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946323#Comment_118946323

That's a highly selective and misleading comparison. MSc in systems management is very likely to be a specialist skill in high demand in the tech sector. We can't all go there.

Ironically, teacher unions are dead against having higher salaries for scarce skills such as Maths, etc. Common salary for all, so that you either fail to attract the scarce skills or overpay the not-so-scarce skills.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946296#Comment_118946296

No no. That doesn’t suit the misery ward who know everything about anything.

TheValeyard

Lol, OP you the same person who had the same thread on reddit Ireland earlier?

spurious

Very few teachers get full hours straight out of college, but don't let that stop your bitch because of what Mr./Ms. Murphy said to you when you were 12.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946348#Comment_118946348

I was once a University lecturer so probably know more about it than most. Unlike teachers, my duties only began when out of the classroom. Supervising PhD students, laboratory assignments etc was all expected on top of the day job (which is to research and produce quality papers to secure further funding). There were no long summer holidays like primary and secondary level but at least I got some peace when the undergraduate population were off. It took 8 years of hard work and a PhD to secure my role and constantly needed to be at the forefront of my speciality which is a tad more complex than being a couple of pages ahead of the kids, but you can continue to fool yourself otherwise. The banality of teaching the same old material year in, year out was too frustrating for me so I changed career. Maybe you should too? Perhaps learn about something you didn't already know at 18, give yourself perspective and feel like you earned your pay increase rather than begging for one along with your peers with a sob story.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946471#Comment_118946471

So you’re bitter because you chose a different path?

Supervise a student teacher for a week and then come back to me with that bile if that’s how you really feel.

Also, I’m not a teacher, so I’ll ask you again not to make remarks on something you know f*ck all about.

Actually, do you know what? Since you like to throw your nose up at people I’d challenge you to go into a school in one of the most deprived areas in Dublin with the ‘be a couple of pages ahead’ attitude and see how you get on with it. That has to be one of the most ignorant, up-your-own-hole statements I’ve read on this forum and it truly shows to me that you have no clue about what it’s like to be a teacher in this day and age.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946366#Comment_118946366

No, I never used Reddit but I must go check it out.

I got the idea from last years thread:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058175175/the-annual-asti-easter-strike-threat

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946487#Comment_118946487

I'm not bitter, just disillusioned that one profession feels entitled to threaten holding the country to ransom every year.

What's your excuse for your bile and swearing. Not everyone has to agree with you and there's no need for sneering at others having an alternative opinion. Certain professions are paid for with the public purse so can rightly come under scrutiny. Others are private so should not be subjected to the same.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946536#Comment_118946536

No, nobody has to agree with me.

However when I see attitudes such as yours and the whole ‘two pages ahead of the students’ bollocks then I know I’m dealing with someone who has formed an opinion with no regard or facts to in anyway back it up.

By all means have an opinion, but as you rightly pointed out, I’m allowed to disagree with it.

Like I said, go into a school in the most deprived area of Ireland and just be two pages ahead of the students and see where it gets you.

green123

Faugheen and Geuze,

Why does this annoy you so much?

Why are you always so quick on these threads to defend the public service pay and huge pensions?

We should be trying to get better value public services for the people who use the service, not always more money for the workers who are already well paid.

Any money available should go employing more teachers, not to pay existing teachers more.

That would make a huge improvement with lower class sizes.

10000maniacs

We had a sweepstakes in the office.

Who will be the first group to whinge and whine with the current inflation rise. The cops, the Nurses or the Teachers.

I won.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946561#Comment_118946561

You remarked about the ‘starting salary’, when the vast majority of new teachers find themselves on part-time or fixed-term contracts. Why did you leave that piece of information out?

sam t smith

^ Send your winnings to the teachers union of your choice please.

green123

Faugheen,

You mention deprived areas.

Will paying teachers more money help kids in deprived areas?

Surely it would be better to use the money to employ more teachers and assistants.

Yes, of course it would

ax530

lots of teachers are on part time by choice another advantage of the job lots of other professions can not opt for. Job sharing, parental leave, sick leave, extended maternity ect... higher paid roles in businesses do not have circulars which guarantee this flexibility and usually the work is not there when they come back as another teacher has covered and done the job.

This flexibility comes at a cost for funding the services so if higher wages are a big concern perhaps they would consider trading it with some other costs. However I believe it is this level of flexibility is what draws people to teaching so cannot see the majority wanting higher wages at cost of flexibility.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946228#Comment_118946228

That's teachers for you, out of touch. They're saying recent graduates can't afford to buy...in what industry can recent graduates afford to buy?

Geuze

I am not here to defend teachers.

Typically, I provide data, facts, comparisons.

I feel teaching should be a well-paid job.

I support teachers in some of their requests.

I do not agree with other things, like "in-service" days during the term, etc.

I acknowledge that the PS pension is good, however, it has been made less generous.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946579#Comment_118946579

I know and respect many teachers, and I work close to their sector, but it is true that they are great moaners.

In saying this, I agree that the current strong rise in inflation means the 1% pay rise in the current pay deal will have to be improved/revised.

Pussyhands

Did you see on RTE earlier they had a clip of a couple of teachers speaking at the congress....And I assume these are people supposed to be the smart ones? I wouldn't let a team member speak to 20 people in a room like they did, nevermind stand up in front of hundreds of people and spout of rubbish like that.

One lass said she's demanding double digit increases. lol

Teachers - consistently out of touch with the real world. Surprised they weren't crowing to get the pandemic bonus.

Nermal

Is there a shortage of applicants?

Leg End Reject

Private sector calling for the same ...

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/siptu-to-seek-pay-rises-for-private-sector-workers-to-offset-inflation-surge-1.4850227

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946692#Comment_118946692

If teachers get a substantial pay rise, every sector in the PS will look for the same. Then inflation just goes up again, meaning the wage rise is meaningless.

Clearly there's no economics teachers about...

Teachers are getting the electric credit like we all do, they're getting the excise on fuel cut like we all do.

"b-b-b-but my partner in the private sector got a rise of 6%"....well, as teachers always say, if it's so easy...why don't you go join the private sector.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946722#Comment_118946722

Ya but this is a teacher bashing thread.

Remember...

Public sector = Bad.

Private sector = Good.

Geuze

A 1% pay rise in the PS in 2022, compared to 6.7% inflation CPI in March 2022, means that inevitably the Govt will have to revise/improve the pay deal.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946736#Comment_118946736

What about Semi-state? The worst of both worlds!

Markus Antonius

Lets face it, teachers are the modern day miners. They do back-breaking labour, they are pivotal to industry and they can bring down an entire economy for every week of the year they don't work. We should give them everything they ask for or else.

Wait a second.... 🤔

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946703#Comment_118946703

I think there were rumblings initially from teacher unions about getting the pandemic bonus too...

Primary and secondary teachers get in service days and training days, along with months of holidays between summer, Christmas, Easter, midterms. Whoever can compare that kind of a job to a career offering the same in the private sector, please let me know.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946765#Comment_118946765

You forgot to mention the reduced life expectancy - and the risk of contacting silicosis.

History Queen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946851#Comment_118946851

Wait.. are you suggesting no other sector get paid training days? Also ask most teachers how bloody useless and resented many of those days are (at second level anyway). I'd happily never do one of those waste of time JCT inservice days again. The out of hours training is much more nuanced and you can sign up for things that are actually useful.

History Queen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946657#Comment_118946657

What extended maternity leave? And aside from jobsharing you can't go part-time by choice without giving up your contract. Teachers get 26 weeks maternity leave.

joe40

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946471#Comment_118946471

I don't why I'm bothering to answer this, you obviously know nothing about teaching. Lecturing at third level is not the same and it would appear you could not hack that yourself.

Teaching in not just about the content it is delivering the content, it involves working with a wide variety of young people and also dealing with parents.

I'm secondary but have absolutely nothing but admiration for primary school teachers. Their skill is not about knowing the primary school curriculum it is delivering the primary school curriculum.

Our main work is the pupils not the content.

If you don't know that it is just as well you don't teach any more in any capacity.

Teacher here...I went one point up the scale this month. It meant absolutely nothing as my pay is the same and will be for the next 3 years, even though I have moved up the scale.

Prices of everything through the roof, it's ridiculous. To fill our oil tank is €1,500. By comparison 18 months ago, it was €800. It's unsustainable and prices will be a long time coming down.

I'm not surprised if any worker is looking for a rise at present.

Dempo1

I won't bash Teachers but have to say the vox pop played on the news at one was a little bizzare , a number of Teachers interviewed at the conferences.

Talk of not being able to afford diesel, young Teachers unable to afford Rent in cities, Cost of living challenges generally, one even said there has to be a level playing field and finally not a hope of young Teachers getting or being able to afford mortgages 🤔

The one comment that stuck out was, young Teachers unable to afford food, Emma O Kelly , Education Correspondent was so aghast and taken aback she had to take a deep breath, she said in all her years covering education and these conferences , she's never heard such a concern re food affordability.

I thought for a while and realised , isn't the rest of the country , working families, private sector employees facing the exact same challenges 🤔🤔, do they get such a platform 🤔, not on your nelly do they .

chasingpaper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946731#Comment_118946731

Much of the inflation people feel recently is due to issues with oil and gas, grain, and global supply chains generally.

These are not local demand driven price changes. Public sector workers in Ireland getting a pay rise won't impact global energy prices.

Your post is not as clever as you think it is.