The annual Teachers threaten to strike thread

Sammy2012

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963531#Comment_118963531

To be honest it's probably harder. A lot of them are not dealing with the public. Just in offices. The stories I've heard are just mental. I do understand the frustration. Our esteemed leaders get paid fair more than me and I don't think they do a good job. The HSE chief makes enough to pay 7 or 8 teachers and I don't think he's worth that. I'd rather employ the teachers!!!

I'm not discussing the welfare budget as that's for a whole other day.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963548#Comment_118963548

Isn’t that the usual response to people inside an organisation telling the truth about wrong doing? Try to discredit the reporter. But carry on.

Sammy2012

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963539#Comment_118963539

Yes I am. You're definitely a good role model for children. And I'm part of the problem. I hope you've enjoyed your time off the last 2 weeks and have your plans in place for next week.

Sammy2012

O

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963577#Comment_118963577

Have you had dealings with teachinggal123 before? They openly admitted during covid lockdowns they were doing nothing. Had many excuses. Have been making excuses ever since and have been belittling others also. Definitely not a whistle-blower unless of course its on themselves

teachinggal123

@Sammy2012 take a look at what @Dav010 just said. Maybe you need to step back and see the reality of the sh1tshow that is the teaching profession today. You can try to silence and discredit me but that won’t stop me. Like Dav said, carry on.

Isn’t that the usual response to people inside an organisation telling the truth about wrong doing? Try to discredit the reporter. But carry on.

Sammy2012

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963604#Comment_118963604

What is the sh1t show? I'm actually interested now. I'm not talking about covid. What are the problems? The lack of teachers? Positions can't be filled? Lack of qualified subs? Lack of additional resources such as support hours, school places for children with additional needs, SNAs for children who need them?

These are all the problems I see. But I am interested to hear your thoughts

teachinggal123

Have a read through this thread for starters.

Then a read through the teaching forum.

Then come back to me and ask that question again.

dubrov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118962743#Comment_118962743

iI don't disagree that teachers and their unions came out with a poor reputation during Covid, especially during the early part.

However, the fact remains that a rise below inflation is effectively a pay-cut. Private sector pay-rises have risen dramatically although are very industry dependent.

You can believe the Central Bank spiel about inflation being temporary but history suggests otherwise. Factor in their target rate of 2% and you can see why they are trying to talk it down. Payrises feed inflation which in turn feed payrises.

Sammy2012

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963637#Comment_118963637

Is it teachers attitudes you have a problem with?

briangriffin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963522#Comment_118963522

The income and expenditure figures don't really tell the whole story though the narrative here in this thread is the teachers increased wages are responsible for the increased expenditure. But our primary school enrolment went from 439,000 in 2000 up to 560,000 in 2020 our teaching staff went from 22,850 in 2000 to 38,800 in 2020, that's primary school only and the most significant increase in teachers was in the area of special education mainly units to provide more integration of students. We still have one of the highest pupil teacher ratios in europe with no teaching assistants and poorly resourced schools up and down the country. Public sector employment went from 300,000 in 2000 to over 400,000 in 2020. Overall spending in education in 2011 over ten years ago was 9.2 billion in 2022 it was 9.3 billion the salary scales were changed and reduced for new entrants along the way who are now still not earning what their collueagues pre 2011 earned.

Strumms

As the population rises and rises. More teachers will be required yet required class sizes predicted to be ‘supersized’ just to cope… less money to pay public service workers whom across the spectrum more will be required….

So more money needed to run education but less with which to pay the educators ie. teachers.

striking won’t help…the country has a gun to the heads of every citizen be they in education, or whatever sector.

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118962759#Comment_118962759

There is no 'extra day'.

Sorry now, what? Why did many schools take March 21st as a closed day?

If you want to know exactly what happened in your school, you'll need to speak to your school.

I did, and I got the "L'Oriel - because we're worth it" stock answer. No other service provider closed... just schools. Why is that - you keep dodging answering that question directly.

The most likely situation is that the school held back a day or two for weather contingencies, to cover the possibility of being closed due to snow or flood. When they got to mid-March with no extreme weather events, they made a judgement that they didn't need to hold onto this contingency, so they closed for the Monday instead.

Ah here, teachers are meteorologists now! I've heard it all. Do you get an allowance for your capabilities to predict the weather too?

That's a guess, but speak to your own school if you want the detail. All schools have the same number of days in their calendar.

Until this year when the Govt parachuted an unexpected Bank Holiday and the cast majority of teachers collectively thought - how best to maximise this new found manna?

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963639#Comment_118963639

Just to stop that in it's tracks, not getting a pay rise during inflation isn't a pay cut and never is, just as you don't get an automatic pay rise during deflation.

Actual pay rises are a source of inflation just as actual pay cuts are a source of deflation.

Europe and the US have had a long period of very low inflation rates, this is a high period for inflation, but was probably overdue (and better than the stagflation alternative that Japan has been in for a couple of decades).

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963795#Comment_118963795

There’s far more talk of teachers striking here on boards than there was at the teacher union conferences.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963799#Comment_118963799

Do you want me to say it again. There is no extra day.

What school are you referring to here?

dubrov

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963886#Comment_118963886

I'm afraid it effectively is a pay cut. The number mightn't change but what it can buy you does.

Not getting a pay cut during deflation is effectively a pay rise.

People in Ireland are too used to a low inflation environment and it is embedded in the psyche that any part raise will improve their ability to spend versus the previous year.

Public sector pay tends to lag the private sector so public servants tend to be overpaid on the way down and underpaid on the way up.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963922#Comment_118963922

It's called inflation and deflation, framing it as a pay rise/cut is wrong, the wages being paid are as per contract, the employer is under no obligation to match to these (there would of course be howling by the PS if their wages were actually tied to inflation and deflation just as they howled at the idea that benchmarking would not always go upwards...).

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963919#Comment_118963919

There was an extra day when everyone else got the 18th, not sure why you'd put the energy into arguing against that, an extra day was taken, you can either defend or attack that, but an extra day it was, irrefutably.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118964202#Comment_118964202

There is no extra day. All schools do the same number of days over the school year.

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118964231#Comment_118964231

Schools do indeed do the same number of days per School Yrear.

Schools do out calendar for the following year, eg primary school do 183 days a year. They must take certain days off, Oct Midterm, Christmas Holidays, Minimum of 2 days in Feb, Easter hols etc these are set in stone (by the DES) and Every School in Ireland will be closed. - given those dates, the date chosen to Start and Finish school are then decided by the staff. Some come back early and take extra days off during the school year, others don't, hence why some school are open on certain days and others are off and why some schools finish 'early' in June and some a little later.

The premise when chosing these start and finish dates are that you Must have 183 school days between your Start and Finish dates.

Once the Extra Bank holiday was introduced, the 183 became 182 and will be 182 from now on. If a school was to be closed on the New Bank Holiday they had to take a different day off as Everybody had an Extra Bank Holiday - Everybody was to work a Day Less This and Every other year. Hence why most schools took an 'Extra Day' off as the 183 had now Officially become 182.

Every worker in Ireland has a day less to work as a result of an Extra Bank Holiday - teachers are no different in this regard.

It shouldn't be that difficult for posters to understand or fathom that really.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118964738#Comment_118964738

It’s not difficult to understand, but when someone is set in a certain way of thinking, facts that don’t suit their narrative don’t matter a shite.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118964738#Comment_118964738

183 to 182 is still an extra day off, you can argue about whether the reduction should have happened mid year or not or whether it's right or wrong that the school year is reduced by this bank holiday, but whatever way you count it, 183-182 = 1 extra day.

A lot of the reasons this thread gets more farcical every year is stupid stuff like this (denying reality) and the fact that the stupidity occurs every single year, it's like "oh well, we did a crap job of getting what we wanted last year, again, so let's go make teachers look like fools for another year in a row".

And remembering this is after the wish to skip the vaccine queue and the hands out for the frontline workers payment (even if that seemed to be union driven without talking to members).

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118965833#Comment_118965833

It is true that Everyone is going to work a day less this year.

It is true that Everyone is going to work a day less next year and every year thereafter.

Office workers, dentists, teachers, solicitors etc.

What is Farcical, is that it is highlighted for teachers as if How Dare They but fine for all other workers.

Stupid stuff like that is indeed an annual gig.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118962154#Comment_118962154

That's neither here nor there. A union's function is to look after its members.

Not many care about the fact that Hospital Doctors got 70k pay rise in 2018 (no that's not a total salary of 70k btw , that's a top up of 70k).

Or government secretary general can easily claim an extra 80k... Just because the department OKs it on a whim.

Or 48 government advisers can skip the recruitment process and be appointed by ministers just cos on a basic STARTING salary of 60k not including pensions. These are all private individuals given access to ministers and can influence who gets what contracts where.

So pay rise of 1-5% is hardly outlandish , considering the pay cuts we took under fempi and the never ending USC and ASC that public sector have to pay because of private sector greed.

What about yourself? As a teacher what % do you think is appropriate?

BTW at a last Union meeting it was unanimous that we didn't want the 1% to go to the whole teaching sector but a higher % to go to the NQTs to address their paycuts. This was repeated by unions in last week's conferences.

Would you be in support of that?

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963185#Comment_118963185

I don't know any secondary teachers who didn't work in our school. At first it was a case of doing what you can because it was all new. But then it was everyone trying to teach to full timetable as best they can. Actually students requested less because it was too overwhelming for a full day at the screen.

Primary was a different story. Teaching there brings the whole loco parentis to the fore. Subject teaching in secondary is a bit more straightforward, whereas primary is a lot more interaction with the child, so it was like parenting over zoom! To be honest I didn't get my knickers in a twist and knew it was just going to be tough and put aside for a few months. I didn't do the 3 hours at the kitchen table making sure everything was progressing exactly with the teacher work set. I just tried to keep up the English (they read enough) and maths and occasional Irish, then turn in whatever the teacher asked.

People who think you can transfer primary teaching from classroom to zoom in a few weeks/months with no training, curriculum rationale, IT support are fools.

Teaching take place through interaction , you can only do so much online.

My kids primary teachers have them back on track and exactly where they need to be, in line with pre-covid more or less. This will annoy a lot of the bashers on here but... I think primary teachers are super.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963577#Comment_118963577

I think that's unfair, during COVID you couldn't really say it was a coherent organisation. Schools were closed on a days notice on March 13th and teachers were told to make do themselves and figure it out.

I think teachingal purposefully decided to do nothing.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118965995#Comment_118965995

Sure, but you and others were arguing it wasn't an extra day at all and then wonder why people don't take the farce seriously each year.

Now, why the need to lessen the school year due to an extra bank holiday at all when there was only 183 days before, this factually brings their year to less than 50% of the calendar.

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118966248#Comment_118966248

Where was I arguing it wasn't an extra day?

You might quote that post please.

Also, why the need to believe teachers should be treated differently to Every other worker ?

Would that not be discrimination?

briangriffin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118966248#Comment_118966248

Astrofool you dont work a full factual 365 days of the year either, you work at most 231

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118966368#Comment_118966368

You appeared to be backing up AndrewJRenko who was making that claim, if you're saying Andrew's claim is wrong, then state that and I can take back the "you" in the statement.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118966701#Comment_118966701

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKVZEDiPLXk