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Mod note Post #1 - All Ireland Senior Hurling Championship 2022 (Liam McCarthy Cup)

  • 01-04-2022 1:55am
    Registered Users Posts: 35,827 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009

    Mod Note (17th July):

    Please read the charter before posting. There's no excuse for ignorance of the rules. Please report any posts that cross the line. Mods will deal with them when they can but people should be mature enough to abide by the rules while posting.

    Leinster Championship (Dublin,Galway,Kilkenny,Laois,Westmeath,Wexford)

    Leinster Championship shall have Six Teams in its Championship and shall be played on a Round Robin basis. Top 2 teams quality for the Leinster Final with the team who finish 3rd advancing to the All Ireland Preliminary round (3rd Leinster vs Joe McDonagh cup runners up, 3rd Munster vs Joe McDonagh Cup winners)

    The bottom-placed team in the Leinster Championship “Round-Robin” shall be relegated to the Joe McDonagh Cup for 2023 (If Kerry win the JMC cup in 2022 no Leinster team will be relegated)

    Round 1 (16th April)

    Wexford vs Galway

    Westmeath vs Kilkenny

    Dublin vs Laois

    Round 2 (23rd April)

    Wexford vs Dublin

    Kilkenny vs Laois

    Galway vs Westmeath

    Round 3 (1st May)

    Galway vs Kilkenny

    Laois vs Wexford

    Westmeath vs Dublin

    Round 4 (14th May)

    Dublin vs Kilkenny

    Westmeath vs Wexford

    Laois vs Galway

    Round 5 (21st May)

    Laois vs Westmeath

    Kilkenny vs Wexford

    Galway vs Dublin

    Final- Sat 4th June

    Munster Championship (Clare,Cork,Limerick,Tipperary,Waterford)

    Munster Championship shall be played on a ‘Round Robin’ basis.. Top 2 teams quality for the Munster Final with the team who finish 3rd advancing to the All Ireland Preliminary round (3rd Leinster vs Joe McDonagh cup runners up, 3rd Munster vs Joe McDonagh Cup winners)

    If Kerry win the Joe McDonagh Cup, they will face the 5th Place team from the Munster Round Robin (25th June) , the loser of that game will play in the Joe McDonagh Cup for 2023

    Round 1 (17th April)

    Waterford vs Tipperary

    Cork vs Limerick

    Clare Bye

    Round 2 (23rd/24th April)

    Limerick vs Waterford

    Tipperary vs Clare

    Cork Bye

    Round 3 (1st May/8th May)

    Cork vs Clare (1st May Thurles)

    Limerick vs Tipperary

    Waterford Bye

    Round 4 (15th May)

    Waterford vs Cork

    Clare vs Limerick

    Tipperary Bye

    Round 5 (22nd May)

    Tipperary vs Cork

    Clare vs Waterford

    Limerick Bye

    Final- Sun 5th June

    All Ireland Preliminary Round-11th/12th June

    3rd Munster vs Joe McDonagh Cup Winners

    3rd Leinster vs Joe McDonagh Cup Runners Up

    All Ireland Quarter Finals- 18th June

    Leinster Runners Up vs Preliminary Round Winner

    Munster Runners Up vs Preliminary Round Winner

    All Ireland Semi Finals- 2nd/3rd July

    Leinster Winners vs QF Winner (2nd July)

    Munster Winners vs QF Winner (3rd July)

    All Ireland Final- Sun 17th July

    Post edited by Hammer Archer on



  • Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭C4000

    It'll be interesting to see how the 6 team Leinster championship pans out. Laois and Westmeath will be massive outsiders in the 8 matches where they play the four bigger teams.

    Laois have produced a couple of outstanding performances in the last 2 years against Clare and Waterford. You'd think their opening game in Parnell Park will be crucial.

    Westmeath are in the Division 2A final this weekend but laboured to get there, only finishing 3rd in the group. You'd wonder what sort of resistance they will put up against Kilkenny in the first round.

  • Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭letsseehere14

    This championship has the makings of being something special or crazy or both. I dont buy the talk that Tipp or Clare are both going to struggle this year, I feel 1 of them will make it out of Munster.

    Now Cork could beat Limerick, Limerick could beat Waterford, Waterford could beat Cork and all 3 end up on 6 points each, but momentum is a big thing, venue is a big thing, schedule is a big thing, there more to this than some people think!

    Iv looked at the Munster championship fixtures and can see some real difficulties for Waterford, Cork and Limerick based on everything going on; schedule, form, fixtures etc. I havnt looked at Leinster yet. But in Munstre, by taking a negative view of what might happen to the 3 favourite teams here individually, its very easy see how things may fall apart for one of them.

    Tipp have Clare and Cork at home, two winnable matches. They also face Limerick after Limerick have played Waterford and Cork. Limerick could be on their knees by then.

    Clare have basically 1 away game, 1 neutral and their final two games are at home. They have a good record in Ennis.

    Looking at how things can fall apart for the other 3.

    1. Limerick - coming in off a very poor league run, with low scoring, low goal scoring, poor discipline and poor results, have to head down the road to Cork for the 1st round. A Cork side who have grown over the winter and many have much better placed now to beat us. They trounced us a few weeks ago and will want to make the most of their only home game. Let say Cork win that. What do Limerick face next? Waterford. All be it in the Gaelic Grounds, we face a side some have labelled as having the best squad in the country. It is very possible that after 2 rounds, Limerick will have lost two. And will face having to beat both Tipp and Clare to advance. People might say they would be nailed on to do that, but in the context of a bad league plus 2 more losses in Munster one after the other, doubts would be there that Limerick could do this. At that stage, the desire might be outweighed by doubt. A trip to Ennis, or a talented Tipp team with blood in their nostrils isn't an easy prospect. One more slip up, even a draw and we're out.
    2. Cork, facing Waterford in a league final, where a good performance is a necessity only have a short period to prepare for Limerick. Lets say Limerick go down and beat them in the first round of the Championship. Many believe winning your home games is necessary to advance. Losing one makes things very difficult. Cork only have 1 home game. They then have Clare in a neutral venue. A ridiculous situation. Clare nearly knocked them out last year. Even if they get over that, they then face Waterford again in Walsh Park. Cork could very easily find themselves 3 games in and only 1 win. Last round, Tipp in Thurles to get through. Not easy.
    3. Waterford, like Cork, have a short turn around from league to Championship. Built up to the hilt, they have some injury concerns and will carry the expectation of the county into this year. They have flopped recently with this expectation. Against Clare in last years Munster qf and against Limerick in the AI sf where many had them as best placed to actually beat Limerick. Lets say they lose that game, which is absolutely possible, they then face Limerick away and then Cork come at them, it could be all over very quickly for them. Even if they win round 1, it is very possible that they go into the final round with only 1 win and a long trip to Ennis to make it out. All it takes is a Tipp ambush when Waterford will be under the most pressure and at their most confident, or a dogged Clare in Ennis. A dangerous place to be. So even with a rd 1 win, things dont get easier for Waterford, they get harder.

    Tipp and Clare face each other in round two. Whoever wins that then has a chance. Tipp with a home win under their belt get a crack at Limerick knowing they have Cork at home. Cork at home in Tipp is winnable no matter what the year. Clare beat Tipp, they have an away win under their belts, next match is neutral and then 2 final matches at home, in Ennis which is a tough spot especially when not taken as seriously as needed, knowing 1 win there may be enough to get through.

    By Round 2 of 5 Limerick will have played Cork and Waterford. By Round 4 of 5 Cork and Waterford will have played. 1 of these teams can very possibly be on 0 points and basically out of the running leaving a place open for Tipp or Clare. With the way the fixtures have presented themselves, I can definitely see Waterford, Cork or Limerick basically being knocked out by just playing eachother, possibly by round 3 of 5 with Clare or Tipp ready to deal the final blow when the damage has been done. So even if we have 3, in my mind, no so clear favourites to get out of Munster, the fixture layout has evened up proceedings greatly.

    Just my thoughts on it. Its going to be great.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,840 ✭✭✭billyhead

    A great post. I have a feeling that one of Cork, Limerick and Waterford won't get out of the round robin series too. If I was a betting man I would say it will be Cork.

  • Registered Users Posts: 35,827 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009

    It's a little annoying that the Leinster teams get an extra championship game compared to the dog eat dog world of Munster with teams only getting 4 round robin games

    Post edited by PTH2009 on

  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭PeggyShippen

    Cork will definately get out of Munster. After that I'm not certain. Limerick probably and then Waterford. Tipperary aren't getting out of Munster. They are given way too much respect. They arent good. Id give Ckare a better chance than them.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭legendary.xix

    The 6th place team in Leinster will be relegated. Munster has no direct relegation fear. A compromise solution sees everyone gain something.

  • Registered Users Posts: 35,827 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009

    Unless Kerry win the Joe McDonagh

    A bit of a farcical situation in that case. Kerry will play the the team who finishes 5th in Munster with the loser been in the Joe McDonagh for 2023 and winner been in the Munster Round Robin

    They should just let Kerry into the Munster Championship Round Robin and it would even out the provinces 6 teams each because no Leinster team would be relegated

  • Registered Users Posts: 770 ✭✭✭lim4ev

    the only thing definite in the munster championship is there's nothing definite. Nothing!!

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭citykat

    Let’s hope the GAA get their **** together and clamp down on throwing and simulation for the championship. Unfortunately there has appeared to be little appetite to tackle these scourges in the league.

  • Registered Users Posts: 22,142 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985

    I would say its 100% certain that if Kerry won Joe they would be allowed straight in as no.6 after a bit of public pressure.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,824 ✭✭✭zetecescort

    So "letting the game flow" only suits when it's ye are the ones ignoring the rules? Now ye want a free taking competition?

  • Registered Users Posts: 562 ✭✭✭Local_Chap

    That's a strange take on previous post. No body is looking for a free taking competition but throwing of the ball is a blight on the game at present and if refs properly clamped down on it for the first two weeks of championship, players will be more inclined to show a definite strike of the hand.

  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭PeggyShippen

    Yeah throwing is a blight. We've discussed it ad nauseum at this stage. I hope they clamp down on it and the steps. But let's be honest here. It isn't the reason Kilkenny aren't winning trophies. And the fact they haven't been doing the throws themselves over the past few years just shows how slow they are to adapt to conditions. If you're getting away with a throw, you throw. If you get whistled you stop. Kilkenny and Tipp aswell are slow to move. To go back to your point. Cian Lynchs throw to Hegarty for the first goal last year was outrageous. He actually threw it up and caught it aswell. Then underarm threw it to Heggo. Great goal. And set Limerick on their way to that devastating win.

  • Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭letsseehere14

    Gotta disagree with you there on every point.

    Cork have a tougher route out of Munster than Waterford and Limerick. 1 home game, AI champions in just 2 weeks, right after a league final. Waterford and Tipp away last day with both possibly fighting for a place in the 3. Of the 3 favs Id have them most likely to lose out if you held a gun to my head.

    I also think Tipp are probably being given too little respect this year which makes them a dangerous unknown. Waterford and Cork being built up without having won anything...until today. Tipp will probably put out a team with 10 to 12 All Ireland winners starting, of which at a guess 6 will be two time winners! Clare and Tipp are being written off based on league form which is a foolish thing to do, but Tipp having Clare at home edges them as more liekly to make it out.

  • Registered Users Posts: 35,827 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009

    As a Waterford supporter im already scared of the challenge the Munster championship will bring

    Were no fans of this 'round robin' system and have yet to win a game in it

    Some teams could be out of the championship by this time next month which is mental as it will only be May

  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭Fred Astaire

    That Cork performance gives me the feintest hope that we (Tipp) could sneak out in 3rd place. Still a massively long shot and I'd have us being beaten very handily by Waterford and Limerick, but if we could sneak a win against Clare (who I think are better than us too) then it would probably come down to the final day vs Cork (who while better have zero fight in them when they are up against it).

    4 points is typically good enough, SD dependant.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭citykat

    Waterford don’t throw the ball.

  • Registered Users Posts: 22,142 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985

    Well enjoy today and save the worrying for another.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭legendary.xix

    If there are 6 teams in Munster and Leinster, would the 6th team in Munster ever be relegated?

    My suggestion:

    If Kerry win the 2022 McDonagh Cup, they should be promoted to Munster. The 6th team in Leinster however should still be relegated.

    In 2023, the 6th placed team in Munster should be relegated. The McDonagh winner promoted to their province. This means that all provinces are treated equally. The 6th team in one of the provinces is always determined by the McDonagh winner. The 6th placed team in the 6 team championship is always relegated.

  • Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭letsseehere14

    I get where youre coming from but thats not workable for the simple reason that when push comes to shove, the rules set will not be followed through on if one of the top 5 Munster teams finds themselves in 6th spot in Munster. And honestly, I wouldnt want them to be followed through on if that was the case because we'd all be the worst for it.

    It would be suicide for the championship to allow any of the top 9 teams be let slip out of the championship at a time when we are scrambling to lift other teams up to their level. To push one established team down would be madness.

    To finish 6th in Leinster as an established top 9 team, you need to not only be worse than your 3 main competitors, but you then also have to be worse than two lower level teams also. There's an in build insulation in that structure. You have 3 goes at the top teams and still then have 2 goes as lower teams to save yourself.

    To finish 6th in Munster, you might even beat one of the top teams in the country, lose by the bare minimum to the rest and lose in a freak result to Kerry by a terrible refereeing performance you find yourself relegated. No room for mistakes at all. No 2nd chance. They are not the same environments.

    Where would we be now if say Waterford were relegated in 2019?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭legendary.xix

    If Kerry win the McDonagh Cup, their going to play the 5th team in a play-off anyway. There is a unfairness on Kerry that they don't a year playing at provincial level.

    If Kerry finished 5th in a 6 team Munster Championship, one would fairly expect the 6th team to lick their wounds, take their medicine and bounce back through the McDonagh Cup, availing of the preliminary quarter-final to challenge for the All-Ireland. It is sporting integrity.

  • Registered Users Posts: 22,142 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985

    The GAA isn't the best at meritocracy though. They are forever bending rules to keep teams happy

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,398 ✭✭✭blue note

    The problem is that the provincial system is way out of date.

    For 1, the provinces are not and have never been equal since I started going to games. Galway being added to Leinster has helped, but still it's by far the weaker province. Wexford and Dublin are good, but at the same time - Dublin haven't had a good season since Dalo left. And Wexford haven't beaten a Munster team in the championship in how long? Clare are probably the weakest in Munster but if they were in Leinster you couldn't make a credible case that they wouldn't be the clear 3rd best team over the last few years. So in Munster you have 5 teams competing for 3 spots to get out of the province. In Leinster you have 2 fighting for 3 spots.

    And then the other problem is that the fans don't even massively care about provincial success. I'm from Waterford and we haven't won a provincial since 2010. And I'm not particularly bothered by it. For me it's all about how far you go in the championship.

    But I'd say the odds of us convincing the provincial councils to give them up are zero. So we're stuck with them for the foreseeable.

  • Registered Users Posts: 22,142 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985

    I really couldn't care about the provinces being imbalanced. If you are not good enough to get out of Munster then you probably were not gonna win the AI anyway.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,398 ✭✭✭blue note

    That's the "if you're the best you'll win all your games" philosophy. It doesn't work like that. If it did all Irelands wouldn't be won through the back door.

    Timing your peak is hugely important. If a munster team tries to time their peak for the final they're in serious jeopardy of not getting out of their province. In leinster you'll probably get away with it. Not definitely - Dublin and wexford are still good teams. But probably the weakest of the top 9.

  • Registered Users Posts: 22,142 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985

    But yet Munster teams have won both the Round Robin years so I don't buy the timing thing especially when you consider getting out of Leinster is no guarantee either.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,398 ✭✭✭blue note

    When you say you don't buy the timing thing - do you not buy that teams try to peak for a specific time in the year and are not as good either side of it? Or is it that you think them off peak should still be enough to get through the round robin if they're good enough to win the All Ireland?

    Maybe Limerick could do that, but I think they're taking a risk if they do. Cork are probably 3rd favourites for the all ireland, but would you be confident of them targeting peaking for the final and getting there? I'd say if they're not hurling close to their best and playing Tipp or Clare who have been targeting munster they'll struggle to get out of the group. Even my own county - if we don't hit the ground running and beat Tipp the first day we're in serious jeopardy. We're away to Limerick after that and then even if we win our last two games we wouldn't be guaranteed to get out of the group.

  • Registered Users Posts: 22,142 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985

    Probably closed to the last option. I think a team good enough to win the AI can be in enough form to get out of Munster and win the AI which Limerick and Tipp both done.

  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭terryrogers

    The argument of the provinces being imbalanced can be used both ways depending or your narrative. One could also argue that Leinster teams are at a disadvantage if you consider it the weaker province, in that Leinster teams aren't being road tested in their province and then have to face well blooded Munster teams in the latter stages.

    It's like the argument being made for years that Munster winners were being hampered by too long a layoff before the AI semi-finals, but now it's that there are too many hard games in too little time. All depends on the agenda of the argument.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,142 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985

    The time to get rid of the provinces was way back before the back door when it was hugely unfair to have good teams knocked out after one very hard game and the likes of Galway sauntering into an AI semi. It's insane how long such a sht system lasted. I do think Limerick, Clare and Waterford could have won more in an open draw straight knockout.