Swatch X Omega

Fitz II

Have watches a few of the more thoughtful youtubers take on the moonswatch, and a few make the point that this hype train does in a way shine a light on the entire watch hype madness. As a Rolex fan, and AP and Patek I have decided a while ago that I am no longer going to run on the wheel simply because I cannot get the watches I am being programmed to like at prices that I am willing to pay. i was however secure in my opinion that these expensive watches I craved were a sign of my good taste and higher than average expectation of quality. The hype affirmed this.....but along comes swatch with a few plastic speedmasters and throws it all in the air. People neither want swatches nor speedmasters to a level where either sell above retail. Both are easy to get. Hell anyone can have a new speedmaster SS on adverts for a grand under retail without haggling. So what was it about this release that created such fever? For me it shows a deep greed due to the commoditisation of watches.

When Rolex bring out their new colours in the coming weeks are people going to go crazy for them? I think this launch will have people pondering the entire thing. Omega collectors are kinda butt hurt for some reason, thinking this plastic authorised replica somehow takes away from their purchase despite years of telling us all that this NASA certified non waterproof manual wind was an essential part of any real collectors inventory, and far better and the sum of its part. But the 250 euro swatch seems to have ability to destablise this assurity. Was this mighty staple of horology so precarious?

Rolex has endless hommages and fakes that can be purchased for similar money. Does that damage the brand...no because fakes are not a tradable commodity in the same way.

If Rolex was the bitcoin of watches, surely these are the NFT's....or maybe I am reading too much in and giving too much credit? But I think "the community" needs to take a long hard look at itself and start being honest about their motivations for purchasing. People were climbing over eachother to get this watch without ever seeing a review. All they saw was €€€ and thats all that mattered.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844779#Comment_118844779

Great post, but do we have any way of knowing how much of the Rolex secondary market madness of the last 8-10 years is Rolex generally speaking (meh), how much is specific to a specific few sports models/colours (a lot), how much is due to production numbers etc (unknown)?

Oh yeah it's been the steel sports models at first, the precious metal stuff was dragged into it. The silliness started with the Sub, then the Sub like models, then latterly the basic steel stuff(IMHO the Daytona is a separate market of its own). You'll have zero trouble buying a Rolex Cellini anywhere. The production numbers have little enough to do with it IMHO. Rolex make around a million watches a year. They're made on an industrial scale. And they're not rare. Chrono 24 alone has page after page after page of the the most sought after models that you can buy now. You just have to pay well over the odds because the market has been internally inflated by the perception of rarity and flippers and "investors" and enough guys willing to pay over the odds to get one now(though as that bubble inflated there are fewer and fewer end buyers in the mix) which has constrained supply. This Swatch Speedy an example of this kinda thing. They're not a limited edition, they won't be rare, they're cheap as chips on all metrics, yet the hype currently has them trading at up to ten times the price. The Rolex bubble is just a longer term version of that.

Other than the Bond experiment - about whose economics we know very little (and perception is subjective) - I don't see much of this "Omega are trying to be Rolex" competitor thing.

Not a direct model for model competitor no. Not trying to be Rolex either. More that Swatch were aiming the Omega brand at that segment of mid tier "good watch" around 4-6k, before RRP's went north and the Rolex bubble started inflating. In that Hodinkee Ed Sheeran segment the founder of the site noted that fifteen years ago people were having the conversation of what to buy; IWC or Rolex. Omega would have been in that mix of mid tier "good watch". Panerai for a while as well. Back then.

The economics of this aren't easy for a publicly traded company (Swatch/Omega) to play with.

I'd say it's a pain in the arse for Rolex too. If not more so. They get pretty much nothing from it now. Early on yeah, because demand and hype were up and helped sell watches that were already solid sellers, but today when AD's have empty display cases, grey prices are truely insane and the hype is everywhere that can make actual customers get jaded about the brand and look elsewhere or just buy an Apple watch or whatever and get out of the game entirely.

Fitz II

Did anyone realistically think it would be any different?

griffin100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845976#Comment_118845976

Jeez, don't want Uranus leaking on me.

whippet

talk about over analysing things - it is a €250 watch that looks nice .. and people want it. It is not like Swatch are setting a ludicrous price it is a secondary market taking advantage of something that people like ... no different to people paying over the odd for a concert ticket.

funkyouup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845976#Comment_118845976

Do normal swatches do that too? That's embarrassing.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845976#Comment_118845976

A chap I'm subbed to in Youtube My Retro Watches who usually does very informative watchmaking vids from an "amateur" point of view sometimes does reviews a la the Just One More Watch cheap and cheerful end of things. Here's his latest in that vein this morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYUw1EHZXlo

Your standard operational copy of a vintage sub. Solid steel throughout, with a ceramic bezel, screwed(if fiddly) solid link bracelet and remarkably well done case finishing for the money, an automatic Seiko movement(that needed some tweaking) and half decent luminova lume. Cool enough packaging too. Now it wouldn't be my bag, but if that's your sorta thing and fair enough you can have it for 220 quid, 30 quid less than the SwatchSpeedy, 50 less with discounts. And I'd be willing to bet it feels a lot less cheap than the Swatch. Now that's made in China, but I'd also be willing to bet a hundred quid of the Swiss made SwatchSpeedy is for the name printed on the dial. Then again for the real Speedmaster or Sub, the name is worth many multiples of that. In the grey flipper market it's pretty much everything.

Your comparisons in the watch market(especially over the last five or six years) to crypto and now NFT's and €€€€ signs I think is a very good one. The "name" was always the thing in luxury goods, as were fashion and trends, but now the perception of the name has gone way beyond that.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846076#Comment_118846076

Among mates of mine's kids who wear watches, mostly girls and nearly all Swatches, I've never heard of them complaining they were turning their kid's wrists into colouring books. That said I can't think of previous Swatches or placcy watch cases in general with printing on the reverse. Any text is nearly always moulded/stamped into the plastic, same for steel cases. I suspect it's the ink not biting into the soya based plastic material. I've heard of that before(not in watches).

scwazrh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845976#Comment_118845976

It would seem so . There’s a few posters on this thread that seemed to think this was a fun exciting cool product and not the disappointment that it will truly be.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846391#Comment_118846391

I still think it is a fun cool product and could well upset the wider applecart, but it is what it is, a hundred and fifty quid (non Chinese)watch with a hundred quid's worth of branding. It'll be those who think it's any more than that who will be disappointed.

Neilw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118845976#Comment_118845976

I wonder is it the battery cover that’s causing the transfer?

Cienciano

Few reddit posts about the colours going onto peoples skin.

I think €250 is too much, i don't think I'd pay more than about €60-70 for one

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846632#Comment_118846632

Most likely. The colour of the main case would be premixed in the plastic before moulding, the colours on the battery cover are printed on. An element of personal body chemistry can be at play too. Some people's sweat is defo more corrosive than others. I've seen casebacks on vintage watches that were eaten away. Nickel/chrome plated brass was the worst for it(and near guaranteed to cause a skin reaction). Silver can be similar. Though I've seen even stainless steel cases get etched by whatever was in the blood of the original owner. 😮😁

So a mixture of top printing on plastic sweat and rubbing and the paint comes off.

Fitz II

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846391#Comment_118846391

Hey I think its a fun product and small cost, but I dont expect a lot from it. People are going on about how it will feel in the hand and the light materials....yeah no ****, its a cheap little watch thats 10 euro of watch and 240 euro of branding. People are treating this like an actual watch release rather and a novelty.

Having said that the real speedmaster cuts the wrist of a lot of people in the same place, myself included, so maybe its just being faithful to the original.

njburke

Mmh, a watch with a transfer tattoo complication.

fat bloke

https://www.fields.ie/swatch-irony-night-flight-black-dial-steel-case-bracelet-watch

Nowt as queer as folk. That kind of queuing insanity just makes me NOT want whatever it is.

Anyway I thought Swatch already had the speedmaster-alike above? Just buy one of those?? 🙄

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118849152#Comment_118849152

In steel too FB. And with a date(which to be fair is better integrated than quite the number of far more expensive watches out there). I'd have thought it uses the same movement as the Swatchmaster, though IMHO the subdials are more balanced in that model. For the money that's a pretty OK looking watch, again IMHO. Certainly better than most of the "fashion" brands at that pricepoint. And dearer actually.

Cienciano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118849152#Comment_118849152

Sorry, it may be metal, have a bracelet instead of a crappy velcro strap and date but it's missing the word "omega".

funkyouup

https://youtu.be/Uk6Nwy5kMy4

Color is leaking from the watch itself, not the battery cover.

Birneybau

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118844989#Comment_118844989

I have a Speedmaster Pro (2.7k and I'm keeping it) and yeah, prices are going mental BUT I stand by my point that people will pay waaaay over the odds for what's hot. I've a fecking t-shirt that's now worth 3 times what I paid for it because it's Supreme X My Bloody Valentine.

StockX gives a good measure of these markets. Fecking trainers for 15k.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118849667#Comment_118849667

Whoa, that's a feck up in materials and product production. Especially for something that directly sits on human skin. Hell, you can have lego bricks in all colours keep their colour for many decades and they didn't turn kids hands different colours.

Plastics off gas when new, it's a lot of the "new car smell" people reference, but leaching pigment to that degree? Like he said in the vid I wonder do the other colours leach to that degree, or is it the chemistry involved in just the blue pigment?

Trigger Happy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118849398#Comment_118849398

Black marker and a bit of tipex and you will be sorted.

Trigger Happy

I keep to and fro-ing on these swatch x omega watches.

Ignoring the brand and hype and you have a decent looking watch with a decent quartz movement at a not so bad price. The color seepage is a worry and you would have to wonder what QC was done on these. You can't harp on about your superior swiss credentials and then mess up on QC on such a big profile product.

I can see how having the word 'omega' on the dial will shift a lot of product as, like it or not, that sells.

Then I wonder what Omega are getting out of this. Does this not just cheapen their brand? Like it or not there is a snobbishness about the more expensive/exclusive brands. Will this swatch-omega hybrid do the Omega brand more harm than good and alienate people who see Omega as a luxury brand etc?

Will some people wonder why they should spend €5k on a speedmaster pro when anyone of the Great Unwashed could be wearing this branded lookalike for little more than a week's dole money?

That said, I would still buy one of these.

Birneybau

I can't imagine anyone mistaking one of these for a real Speedmaster Pro. And if they do, are they really people you want to know? 🤣

cuttingtimber22

How much is a speedmaster? Are they worth it?

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118853466#Comment_118853466

€250 and worth every penny 😁

Fitz II

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118853759#Comment_118853759

LOL.....

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118853466#Comment_118853466

The Speedmaster is a great watch CuttingTimber, an "icon" of watches, very nicely made, with a cool history and a long one too and not just on astronaut's wrists, and one of the watches I've always recommended to mates who asked me as their weirdo pet watchnerd; "What's a Good Watch for Life(tm) to buy?". I'd still stand by that too. A couple of caveats though: Try one on first. They seem to fit some people better than others. Secondly they're not automatics, IE you have to physically wind them to power them up. Personally I like that. Non watch nerd weirdos may not. Thirdly, buy used/secondhand as you'll save a fair few bob. Pricewise? I'm not that up to speed, but I think they're around 3500 quid for a secondhand one? More for the special editions, but I'd personally go for a standard one.

cuttingtimber22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118853845#Comment_118853845

Thanks. Was looking at one about ten years back and was very tempted. It had a clear back and could see the mechanics which was pretty amazing. Unfortunately the cash situation got complicated but of the expensive watches it was one that took my fancy. I just don’t like Rolex watches - but these things are subjective.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118846270#Comment_118846270

"Soya based plastic material". You need to copyright that phrase. Rival companies will lap it up. Swatch Omega is for soyboys.

https://zoom.us/u/adJBOcPNZO

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118853845#Comment_118853845

When I wanted to buy one a few years back you were looking at 3,000-3500. You can kind of still get them in around the 3,500 range from Japanese sellers (but that's kind of moot with the import tax you will incur on top)- anything a bit closer to home in the EU seems to be sitting closer to 5,000. I tried a few Irish jewelers recently and they were all asking in and around 5k second hand.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118851243#Comment_118851243

I don't know if this is a marketing thread or a simple discussion.

And honestly, today I wouldn't buy a Swatch anymore. They have greatly reduced shops and their service attitude and spare parts like new watch straps are very hard to come by. Also batteries and the exchange of batteries used to be for free with Swatch, now that's also gone.

Yes, they are nice and practical watches, but it's not what it used to be anymore. At least that's my experience.

mailforkev

I’ll prob grab one of these at some point when the hype dies down. Not much risk involved for two fiddy.

Hopefully one of my pals gets one first though so I can see one in the metal plastic bioceramic.

ShamanRing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118850267#Comment_118850267

Interestingly there is a shortage in blue plastic dyes for lab consumables. All the tubes I’ve ordered recently come with a letter explaining why all the caps are colourless. Could swatch have used a poor quality or unproven substitute?

scruff monkey

Swatch right now...

Cienciano

Now the hype is dying down i wonder if many people who paid over the odds are looking at a plastic watch with shítty strap and regretting spending €500 on it?

Fitz II

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118859587#Comment_118859587

100% will regret, but 0% will admit it.

Wibbs

500 quid would be bad enough, the eejits spending three, even four times that need medical help.

scwazrh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118861744#Comment_118861744

Retail price is too much for them .Claiming they have moonwatch history is similar to Oisin claiming the zero west watches have any ww2 history

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118861817#Comment_118861817

nice. I might troll him with that later

funkyouup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118859587#Comment_118859587

Id like to know how to buyer of this one feels now.

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/203880879986?hash=item2f783f5772:g:LIoAAOSwwz5iPLxc

unkel

€5k for one - insane 😁 although I guess at 20x retail it was roughly the same as the Tiffany Patek

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118862715#Comment_118862715

So I can avoid a clear lunatic. 😂

Deep Thought

Loads on Chrono24 and I believe trying to sell them as rare Speedmasters. This is scandalous and I did email Chrono24

Cienciano

I wouldn't worry about it, no one is going to spend €17k on a speedmaster without knowing what he's buying. If the dealers can be flagged it might be useful to avoid them for any future dealings for other watches

Deep Thought

Absolutely, but is immoral and disgusting and on such a prominent site, should be called out

Cienciano

I think Jodi from Just One More Watch called it right. No one cares when someone does it with a rolex, but for some reason they have a problem with this swatch. I don't think these are going for those prices, blame the buyers if they are.

unkel

Why is it immoral and disgusting? If one of these sells for whatever €1k, €5k, €10k, it means that both the seller and the buyer are happy with the transaction. Two consenting adults. I can honestly see nothing wrong here. The seller is trying to make a profit, just like every other watch dealer in the world, amateur or professional. And the buyer wants something that's hard to get (and probably wants to show it off) and is willing to dig deep for it.

Corcaigh84

I was in Venice last week and popped into the Omega shop for a nose (my main piece is a circa 2013 quartz Seamaster) and I saw these and liked the look of them, the Moon one especially. They informed me they were for display purposes only, and sent me to the Swatch shop.

Swatch shop was sold out, and the display cabinet was not for sale. I am looking for a midweek/working watch and these caught my eye (recently bought a Casio as I've wanted one for a while but it looks tiny on my wrist) . Is the consensus that these are overpriced even at retail? I enquired in one of the bigger jeweler chains here in Cork and they said they will get whatever is left over from bigger franchises in Dublin, and that there's a waiting list. I have no intention of paying over retail fwiw.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118911259#Comment_118911259

You could get much nicer watches for €250 but it really depends how much you want the Omega name on your Swatch.

Someone posted it earlier already, but Swatch actually do a 'Night Flight' model after the Speedmaster which is made of steel rather than plastic and it's cheaper than the Moonswatch

https://www.swatch.com/en-ie/night-flight-yvs444g/YVS444G.html