is entering dairying still an option

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119703671#Comment_119703671

You wouldn’t want a herd of low maintaince cows sending 4750€ in milk each ?

cosatron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706177#Comment_119706177

Not my cup of tea, we will just leave it at that.

K.G.

The greenfield farm in kilkenny was one of the best things that teagasc ever got involved in.the reality of dairy start ups was there.the difficulty of converting tillage land to grazing and the performance lag,the vast amount of capital involved far in excess what people project,the labour issue,the time lag in performance and the occasional herd health dramas and finally there isn't half as much money in the game as people think.alot of the problem with teagasc research is people only see what they want to see

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706941#Comment_119706941

Well, a cigarette lighter is actually quite useful on a motorcycle 😉😉😉

It’s well worth remembering that milking cows is hard work. Agriland say 90 cows gives you a 90k profit before tax, however, calving 90 cows is tough not to mind milking, feeding, minding the calves till sale, silage, managing breeding and fencing. Factor in no sick pay, drop in prices etc. Any time agri prices rise production rises and then there is a correction.

There are nearly 80 people making the same kind of money in teagasc. There are people making more than that working in office jobs for the state / private sector and there are people making multiples of that at big tech companies.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707084#Comment_119707084

Most dairy farmers would make more than 90k if they let out their farm, got back their BPS, and got a job. Dairy farming is like working 2 full time jobs.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707240#Comment_119707240

For about 6 weeks in the spring. But for 6 weeks dry period it's a 2 hour a day gig. All summer with stock out grazing you can be as free as you like if you are willing to pay for an odd evening milking.

It's no bed of roses but no way is it 80 hours plus a week all the time.

whelan2

As I've said before it's as easy or as hard as you make it...

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707274#Comment_119707274

Pretty relentless here anyway. For those 2 hour days in the winter there is usually a building or maintenance project here. Cutting trees or something else. I like to be kept busy. When you have a job, you turn up in the morning and do your time. You don't stop the clock when you are quiet for an hour or two.

Very flexible though in fairness. I spend alot of time with the children and parents during the day and it suits me fine. I'm just making the point that any money out of dairy farming is hard earned and well deserved.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706941#Comment_119706941

Ya it was a project that was designed to let the larger farmer with finance know the way you could set up multiple stand alone projects. They forgot about the labour issue, housing, slurry, calves, and environmental changes it is coming back to bite these farmers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707084#Comment_119707084

90 k is great wages for a semi skilled worker. You have to work near enough the same hours to get the same wages. Most of the workmanship on a farm is 10-15 euro/ hours work. Tractor work, milking, calving, land maintenance etc.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707240#Comment_119707240

They are very few that have skills that really pay. Most would end up working in manual or semi skilled work in the 11-17 euro an hour work.

I used to always say to lads complaining about there jobs over the years. Far away hills look green. One lads said it back to me after he took a deal in his early forties and ended up driving a taxi.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707274#Comment_119707274

Ya it's easy to know you have and are working outside farming.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707506#Comment_119707506

A lot of lads make work for themselves by not contracting out certain jobs. Yes it costs more but if you want a certain lifestyle you have to pay for it

Its like retiring you will never have the money you had when working.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707731#Comment_119707731

Re contracting out jobs, it's getting impossible to get a fencing contractor as one example, these lads have 6 months work ahead of them and even in my case I needed the entire place fenced, and after going to 3 different lads all who promised to be on within the month none showed up our bothered answering the phone, ended up doing the whole myself and bought a stake driver, but the magic Bullet of getting the contractor in locally anyway isn't a straightforward option anymore

Mooooo

No point looking at this year in isolation for costs or profit, look at the last 5 or 10. There have been more years closer to 25 than current prices

Re the work itself a lot is dependent on what stage people are at and what they need out of it. All points by everyone above are valid but can be circumstance specific.

Just re the labour point. We are at full employment, and while the energy shitshow is putting a lot of places under pressure, wages aren't likely to come down. Local petrol station with shop was offering 14 an hour to find people, no such thing as lads working for minimum wage anymore so if you want people you'll have to pay for em, and in some cases that means not standing still

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707274#Comment_119707274

Some people are in liquid milk.

there are plenty of lads doing their own work over the Summer too. Not everyone is getting contractors in for everything

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707506#Comment_119707506

It’s probably all dependent on your position in your setup. If a lad is still in development phases there’s a lot more work than an established man. And that goes for all categories of farmers, not just dairy. But then there’s also lads that are able to drag the work out to create the image of being busy.

We’ve one neighbour here that would be well established and would tell anyone that’ll listen how hard farming is and how he’s wore out from it with 12 - 14 hour days every day. He has about 20 suckler cows, 40 or 50 dry stock and buys in about 200 lambs to fatten on kale over the winter. He’d tell his part time farming neighbours that they don’t know how handy they have it in their off farm jobs compared to him out in all weathers every day of the week.

I don’t think he realises the part timers he’s talking to have more stock than him and are able to have all their farming done in an hour or 2 in the evenings after their off farm work.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707972#Comment_119707972

To be fair, there are usually a lot of efficiencies that can be done with a better set up. But some lads might not have the money, or want to take on the risk - which is reasonable, on making those investments and just make do with what they have.

Some of the lads with off-farm work might even be making a paper loss on their farm to offset high rate of tax in their 9-5.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707756#Comment_119707756

It also leaves you at the mercy of the contractor's schedule.

Similar for buying in feed. You might buy it in cheaper than you'll make it, but it can be pot luck what you'd get.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707972#Comment_119707972

Busy is a state of mind.

One lad will be in the yard 12 hours every day and he'll tell you he's not busy, only tipping away. Another fella will spread a few bags of fertiliser and shift the cattle, and he'll tell you he's flat out, wicked pressure altogether.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119708121#Comment_119708121

Yep I agree. That same lad I’m referencing would be well set up, a decent modern tractor with loader, keeps a fresh jeep and cattle trailer, farm would be well fenced and well paddocked out, and he has plenty of his own machinery for doing his own work.

I suppose the point I was making is what one man considers a small job another man, that maybe wouldn’t have ever been used to working off farm so only ever worked to his own schedule, could consider the same job as a lot of work.

straight

I guess it's up to everybody how they decide to spend their own time. I enjoy being busy myself and get satisfaction out of getting jobs done well. Get a bit sick of waiting for contractors here and I wouldn't like to be bothering them with small jobs either.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119708148#Comment_119708148

Contractor here used to do everything tractor related was getting 35k plus a year, and every year the service got worse where you where literally begging to get things done, all in-house now bar silage wagon contractor who brings in and rakes but you could set your watch with this lad once he gets any bit of notice at all

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707884#Comment_119707884

Do as much work as you like in the summer, it's still not 80hrs every week unless you are still at hay with a binder or something.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119710864#Comment_119710864

It would depend on how much you are doing ......

It would be a bit silly to apply an assumption as to what someone else is doing without knowing what they do!

It doesn't have to be 80 hours a week every single week to constitute "busy" anyway. It's hardly "only 79 hours and sure you're free to do anything else"

kevthegaff

Have to say, wirless headphones are a game changer. Make phone calls to pay bills or business calls or listen to podcasts, music or the radio while milking or doing jobs around the farm. Makes mundane jobs alot easier

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119710894#Comment_119710894

What straight said was that dairy farming was like having 2 full time jobs. That is 80 hours every week. I was merely pointing out an exaggeration, not saying he wasn't busy. I fully accept he is busy.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119710959#Comment_119710959

It would depend on your setup and numbers. If you only have small parlour and an average herd of 90 cows, your time between leaving the house to milk and getting back in could easily be 3+hours just for milking. Half hour to bring the cows in and set up. 10 mins a side on say a 6 unit parlour would be 2.5 hours milking. With 8 units you're still at nearly 2 hours. Then washing up and dealing with a few problem cows. Then maybe feeding calves, managing grass etc.That could over your 40 hour week already. Different story if you have a 20 unit parlour with acrs. etc.

Now add in maybe doing all, or most of, your own work other than that. Fertiliser/mowing/tedding/raking/baling/wrapping/slurry etc. Maybe you are keeping your calves as calf to beef then as well. You'd be squeezing in those jobs when you're not mad busy with "contracter's work".

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119710959#Comment_119710959

I'd rarely do less then 80 hours a week, but that's due to herd size and tractorwork nearly all done in-house, 20 hours a cow a year is ment to be gold standard with all machinery work contracted out, so in my case my problem is to many cows, lack of relief labour

Screenshot_20221006-222559_Drive.jpg

Teagasc done a really good study into it a few years ago

onrail

Great thread lads. I'm mid 30s, making fairly average money with a semi-state, 37 hours a week and having a tough time deciding whether to keep the cows going when the Aul lad retires or not. We're currently milking 60, bit of dairy beef, say 180 head total at any given time.

30 ha available as a milking block, 9 unit parlour out of 85 ha total. Good room for expansion to say 80 cows, but do I want to give up my weekends, especially with a young family? Hard to say

cjpm

Your wife would want to be on board 100% if you are considering it.

Actually, she’d nearly want to be 200%.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711121#Comment_119711121

Stick with the job and the dairy beef. Forget about the cows

K.G.

I was tipping away at a couple jobs on the workshop this evening up to 10 30 and i was asking myself was it work or pleasure,I was as happy as larry