is entering dairying still an option

Mooooo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711121#Comment_119711121

Including going for em spend 35 hours a week milking cows here, rest of the work has to be done then as well. Spring would be more

While I'd imagine that wouldn't take up the same time in your place if you end up buffer feeding etc it will add up fast. Think it thru but stick in a decent allowance for relief milking if you plan to work and milk

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711121#Comment_119711121

Have a look at the different aspects on this website: https://sites.google.com/view/dairyconversion/home

I spent a while looking into milking in early 2020-2021 and decided not to go ahead at the time. I had so many notes, I ended up putting them into the above site to try make sense of them. (I do that type of work at the off-farm job).

It needs to be updated but most of it is still relevant. Interesting to note that I used 25c/litre as a stress-test in the finances. That was only 18 months ago.

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711121#Comment_119711121

100 cows

20 unit parlour

relief milker every weekend, you won’t get a full weekend off every week but you’ll have great flexibility with having the milker there

onrail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711601#Comment_119711601

Would 100 cows be feasible off a 30 ha block without serious hassle? The current 9 unit is limited by space unless we break through a slatted tank to the back, so would probably call for a whole new building.

What does a relief milker cost these days?

Tonynewholland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711627#Comment_119711627

FRS are something like 76 cent per cow this year.

Mooooo

If you can grow the grass it would be fine, 3.3/ ha for main growing season, a bit of buffering in the spring and late autumn but weather may have doing that anyway at a lower sr so would aim to setup to do that. 85ha total with plenty replacements would still have you stocked fine overall. Is the 30 ha the biggest block?

Would get on to local teagasc office and see if you can find a good local discussion group, would help you flesh things out a bit better

K.G.

For what it's worth .try it out in the current setup for a while but give up the drystock.if it means letting out some land for a while that's fine.maybe increase the amount of replacement s a bit so that if you decide to stay at home and increase you ll have them ready to go.people say there isn't much extra work in a bigger bunch than a smaller one but the problem is its another business altogether and time will be at a premium so every hour counts.if you decide its not going to work you still have the cows to fund the return to beef cattle.increasing cow numbers brings a pile of work in the development phase as it seems it s like a domino effect as one thing sorted seems to lead to the next thing to be sorted

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711121#Comment_119711121

In your mid 30's in a semi-state job is there promotional prospects. Do you have far to travel to work. Will your earning increase as your career develops down the line. Is your job trade or professional qualification based. Is WFH a long-term option

Is the farm split in many blocks. Are the outside blocks set up paddocked, water etc.

Under present farming payments your BPS will be a out 21k. C3 ANC will give you about 2.6 if you qualify for it. So no matter what system you choose you will have 23.6k in payments if ANC is applicable.

At 220 kgsN/ HA on 30HA you could manage 70-80 dairy cows and easily bring in some fodder from other sides of the farm. However if you are worried about lifestyle then investment is probably required to upgrade parlour and to keep labour I/p low. Also if you add more cows will there be extra Capital investment If you decide to expand cow number durther

You and your father will already know the profitability of you calf to beef system in place. You are probably finishing cull cows as well. Which is the most likely to appeal to you or will you continue both. You may need extra housing but it's easier to access TAMS as a drystock farmer. There is limits being put in place for dairy farmers. Therefore beef will require little capital investment and even at that its easier to spread it over time as opposed to dairy being mostly up from.

Staying working gives you options of continual steady cash flow. If WFH is a long term option I would definitely stay at the job and a beef. If you are not traveling a distance to work, and it has good career opportunities and your hours are fairly ok I still opt for the beef operation.

A dairy operation may tie you to milking cows into your mid/late sixties to sort debt and investment.

Any calf to beef or cull cow operation should bring in a decent margin 40k should easily be attainable. Biggest factors is if your present housing is all in the one place ( not a disaster if not). If you can gather most of your silage from around your sheds therefore it's easier to spread slurry etc

Contract out as much as is feasible. It's important to treat it as a business as much as a lifestyle.

Green&Red

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711341#Comment_119711341

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711601#Comment_119711601

There's a massive difference in these two set ups, G2M must be on 20 hours a week to milk, its the same with me, thats some saving every week.

In a lot of cases it seems to come down to the facilities, which is probably determined by other factors, fellas who expanded and either did or didn't upgrade the parlour. If you've done a full weeks work before you do anything outside of milking then its a tough job and you wouldn't be long getting fed up of it

@onrail there's probably a good lesson for you there, if you do decide to go at it then you'll need a new parlour. FWIW I'd recommend it if thats what you enjoy

cosatron

@onrail if you don't enjoy milking cows and the daily grind, stick with the day job. May i suggest you take off 2 weeks work and tell your dad to go on holidays and see how you like it and make sure your wife is 300% on board.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711341#Comment_119711341

That's an honest answer. I've 6 rows to milk here and it's the bringing in and cleaning up takes the time. The milking is the fastest part. Lads that think they do it all in an hour and a half on their own are only codding themselves.

Green&Red

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713510#Comment_119713510

90 minutes from opening the dairy door to closing it in the morning, slightly less in the evening, that would include moving the strip wire these days. Autowasher is a big help

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713756#Comment_119713756

I also have an auto washer. It doesn't wash the clusters or walls though. I have 2 power washers for that. Takes 30 mins + to clean out the parlour but it is spotless at that stage. It is a food production facility after all. I have to wake my cows in the morning and tap them all the ways in. Takes an average of 30 mins to get them in. They will hardly move out of your way these days. Takes another 10 mins to close the wire after milking.

Mooooo

13 rows next year, wouldn't be spending that long washing, wash as I go and a big wash every so often. Fitting a new volume washer and pressure washer with a head just on the trigger with hose on a reel to speed that up. Crossing roads slow things esp this time of year once they realise they are not going straight out they really slow down

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119714508#Comment_119714508

I always spend too much time washing alright. Hard to break that habit you know. It's a turn off for relief milkers too when they see the place so clean and they have to try harder with the wash up.

I have a volume washer reel at the front corner of the parlour. Think I might put about 3 drops in the pit instead for next year. I scrape out the holding yard/slats every morning with a large push scraper too. 🙄

onrail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711990#Comment_119711990

I'm WFH 4 days per week at the moment, commuting 90 mins each way to work when I do travel. Money isn't great and it gives me plenty of sleepless nights, but it's hard to give up a solid paycheck, especially with the wife still looking for a permanent teaching job.

Common sense tells me to stick with the job and drystock, but something in me likes the 'numbers' involved in dairying and I never minded the work - it's the bloody weekends that are the killer.

We've a bigger block on the outfarm (about 4 miles away from home) that would be great for a 100 cow setup, but the investment scares me a bit - especially when the mortgage is going to be a stretch over the next few years.

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119714636#Comment_119714636

What size wash down pumps are ye using and what size pipes

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716642#Comment_119716642

Ours is a 2hp pump we just got from EPS. 1 inch pipe.

JustJoe7240

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716362#Comment_119716362

The middle paragraph rings alarm bells for me as funny as that might sound. Have you thought about upskilling? Any springboard courses of any interest to you?

onrail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717054#Comment_119717054

Yeah, the need for a weekend will never really work with farming!

Upskilling is always an option, but finding the time at the moment, with 2 very young kids, building a house, job and farm would be tough. Bringing in around 70k gross, that'll rise to 80-85ish without promotions. So it's kind of in the middle where it's tough to leave, but doesn't make things comfortable.

mayota

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717105#Comment_119717105

I'd definitely stick with the job and drystock, offset tax on off farm income to set up the place nicely.

tractorporn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717105#Comment_119717105

If I was on 70k with prospects of rising to 80/85k I would be sticking with that and working away with any capital projects on the farm getting it ready for a time when there's less pressure from a mortgage and young family where you can then walk away.

I am only taking in 45k gross atm but that's my strategy, once the mortgage is sorted I will look at dropping the job.

farawaygrass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119720876#Comment_119720876

Same, but then I’ll be late 40’s and thinking would I still have the appetite for such a big change at that stage in life. Depends if kids show any kind of interest but they’ll get every opportunity for other avenues.

when you are early 20’s you can take whatever the farm throws at ya and then some. Different when you reach the 40’s

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119720876#Comment_119720876

Don't let the mortgage be that big of an issue mentally. I remember thinking that I would be able to do the devil and all when I got mine cleared, but the reality was that kids were now into their teens and were getting expensive to run. College bills looming also hopefully so the reality is that the job will always be important unless you have scale to be a really viable full time farm. That's probably not an option in anything except dairying in my opinion, well at least not to compete with an €80k job.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119717105#Comment_119717105

At them sort of numbers and working from home you would be crazy to go dairying.

A solid beef operation should generate 60k in income between SFP and profit. But the real benifit would be that you would avoid tax in a lot of that income. Car expenses, electricity, telephones, dog food, certain amount of construction work etc can all be written off. Admittedly similar with dairying but you would need to take drawing as well from dairying income.

If you go dairying what level of investment up front will you need to get to 100 cows. 100-150k. You also at that level be bringing a lot of feed from the second block. Bringing feed from a block means taking slurry out to it. 5 mile's each way mean about 50 minutes per load.

If you set up.the farm for a beef operation right you will probably be able to retire before 60 if you so wish. Pump money into an AVC for the next twenty years

If you go dairying you will be making cows at 65-70 years of age

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119721494#Comment_119721494

I gave up the day job 6 years ago to milk cows. You kind of have to be built for farming and dairying even more so. I certainly wouldn't go farming for the money anyway. But 20 years at any job is nearly enough for most lads. Biggest problem I see for the OP is the 90 min each way commute. That is just not on imo. Farm was fairly set up here when I took over but it still took alot of investment from cash flow between stock, sheds, water, roadways, machinery.

I could pull the plug anytime I want and certainly won't be milking cows in my 60's.

Children are still in national school and I do all the drops and pickups/homework, etc. Actually enjoy getting to spend so much time with them and they are getting interested in farming so that will probably encourage me to keep going if they keep an interest.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119721746#Comment_119721746

The commute is only once a week

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119722006#Comment_119722006

At the moment

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119722101#Comment_119722101

WFH will only increase. It's being pushed by government. He is working for a semi state body so it should remain so

dh1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119722114#Comment_119722114

Hard to know on the wfh been a permanent fix. Alot of the mnc are pushing for people to be back in the office more. Apple, tesla and alot others. Since September traffic is visibly heavier than anytime since start of covid. If a recession happens and employers get the upper hand over employees regarding recruitment/job opportunities, then the pendulum will swing back to employers calling the shots again. Government agency might be different but I wouldnt bet on it.

Would agree with the verdict of keeping the day job though. Surely pensionable also.