Ireland v The Afterpartyers Super Saturday Matchthread

awec · 19-03-2022 8:17pm

If I was Joey Carbery I’d be very, very worried.

KaneToad · 19-03-2022 8:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118806902#Comment_118806902

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gjf36Lh3DnA

TomsOnTheRoof · 19-03-2022 8:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118806989#Comment_118806989

As a Munster supporter it pains me to say it but you'd hope the coaching staff have seen the light. He's not up to it and he shouldn't be second choice. I'd have Carty, Healy and Frawley ahead of him. Lowry too but he seems to be seen as more of a fullback.

lawrencesummers · 19-03-2022 8:25pm

We are in a far better position with regard wingers and hookers than we were 6 months ago.

There is a clear issue behind porter and sexton.

We have decent viable options and serious competition in the second row, backrow and midfield.

we are in a good place currently, but next up is a NZ team with revenge on their mind. Bring it on.

Ardillaun · 19-03-2022 8:27pm

We were shaky at the start. Lowe is a great man going forward but some of his early tackles had an element of interpretive dance to them. It was a relief to see the scrum holding up. Lineouts were fairly solid, one area of play where Henderson did well. Is it just me again or were many of those Scottish throws in the first half seriously crooked? As Sexton said afterwards, we’ll be cheering England now.

TRC10 · 19-03-2022 8:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118806958#Comment_118806958

It's called standards. Every champion team in history has had them. We were very poor today. Don't let the BP win paper over the obvious cracks.

Of course I don't actively want Ireland to fail. Bizarre that you'd draw that conclusion from me simply calling our a poor performance.

Watching Ireland doesn't make me angry or unhappy. But when we play crap it does annoy me a bit yes. Are you even a sports fan if your team playing crap doesn't annoy you?

Burkie1203 · 19-03-2022 8:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807045#Comment_118807045

If France win a dour 9-6 scrap tonight do you think they will give a fcuk about how poor they were last week or this?

razorblunt · 19-03-2022 8:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118806989#Comment_118806989

Because his Munster spot is now under serious threat?

awec · 19-03-2022 8:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807063#Comment_118807063

Because I think Sexton wasn’t particularly good today but still lasted the 80.

And he got 30 seconds last week.

And he was hauled ashore after 50 odd minutes against Italy.

The signs for him are pretty bleak.

StevenToast · 19-03-2022 8:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118806579#Comment_118806579

Another correct prediction👏🏻

ersatz · 19-03-2022 8:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118806989#Comment_118806989

Absolutely, he came on after 80 last week so that Sexton could get applauded off to begin his 18 month retirement party, and this week Sexton again plays the full match. it's clear Farrell no longer believes. And with the guys who've emerged this season he has other cabs on the rank in Healy, Carty, maybe Frawley and even Hansen...plus Ross Byrne. Yeah, Carbery should be worried. Did he touch the ball today?

roverjoyce · 19-03-2022 8:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807080#Comment_118807080

You could have played with Tony Ward at 10 today and still won,

What was the point of playing Sexton,

Clegg · 19-03-2022 8:48pm

TRC your point about standards and Ireland's lack of them doesn't really make sense as one could argue that this is Ireland's best season since 2018.

Until the most recent November series there were genuine queries as to whether Farrell could keep his job long term. Performances were poor and there didn't look like much progress was being made.

Yet since then we've won 7 of our last 8 games. The only loss was by 4 points against France in Paris. We're at a completely different level compared to 12 months ago and the trajectory is undoubtedly upwards. Yes we're inconsistent, but we're also not a completely developed side either. We've a lot of young players like Kelleher, Sheehan and Doris. All brilliant in their own right, but still developing as pros. The fact we've integrated these guys into the side and still won is a sign of huge progress.

Former Former Former · 19-03-2022 8:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807045#Comment_118807045

They're not playing crap. The last two games we have outscored our opponents eight tries to one.

We won four out of five games. I don't think we've ever scored as many tries in a 6N (24) and I'd be surprised if we've ever conceded fewer (4).

We're playing very well

brokenangel · 19-03-2022 8:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807080#Comment_118807080

That’s because Joey never was and never will be an international 10, he is a 15

The Italy match to me proved this again, it’s time Ireland moved to Joey at 15 and looking at the other options. To be honest I don’t see Carty either up to standard.

Bring in the young lads now.

andy125 · 19-03-2022 8:51pm

What does the BP mean in regard to the France V England match?

VayNiice · 19-03-2022 8:52pm

Burkie1203 · 19-03-2022 8:52pm

Stuart Hogg getting salty

https://twitter.com/patmccarry/status/1505270456441520129?t=LRrk-v08kpuHHx3pKWczcg&s=19

Clegg · 19-03-2022 8:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807107#Comment_118807107

If Joey is moved to 15 them he drops out if the Ireland squad entirely. Keenan and Lowry are both better players.

Jump_In_Jack · 19-03-2022 8:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807109#Comment_118807109

France have to beat England, a draw with a bonus point would only leave them level with us, and we have the better score difference.

Former Former Former · 19-03-2022 8:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807109#Comment_118807109

If France draw and score four tries, it will win the title for us.

Otherwise, nothing.

VayNiice · 19-03-2022 8:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807083#Comment_118807083

Psychic Sally over here. How on earth did you predict that one?

brokenangel · 19-03-2022 8:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807117#Comment_118807117

We don’t have a real backup to Keenan in the squad

Plus Joey can cover a number of position from the bench, give him a season at 15 and see what he does, he was incredible for Leinster at 15

StevenToast · 19-03-2022 8:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807123#Comment_118807123

Thanks, yeah i just know sport

pickarooney · 19-03-2022 9:09pm

Carbery came on after 72 minutes, didn't he?

BENDYBINN · 19-03-2022 9:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807115#Comment_118807115

Scotland put some effort in to the last few minutes given they had absolutely nothing to gain.......

VayNiice · 19-03-2022 9:46pm

Kilcoyne is still a real liability at scrum time. His body position is appalling. One scrum in particular his back was very arched before Nel managed to lift him off the ground.

Larbre34 · 19-03-2022 9:56pm

I don't know how people can dismiss concerns about overall performance and set-piece issues.

How long do you think we can get away with it?

How far into a World Cup tournament do you think we'd get playing like that?

Yeah we beat Scotland with some daylight. A really average team with no cutting edge that blow hot and cold like a busted fridge.

Our aspirations are better than that.

kuang1 · 19-03-2022 10:18pm

Don't think there's many (or any?) on here dismissing concerns.

We won't get away with that in a WC scenario against a France or a SA. Is anyone else saying otherwise?

I haven't seen those posts, you'll have to point them out to me.

Scrum and handling errors are 2 big negatives in our last 2 games. Terrible optics for anyone watching those games.

But you cannot rationally argue that "we're playing terribly" when we're winning the same said matches with BPs and record stats for trys scored vs trys conceded etc.

Let's not forget; defensively we are in brilliant shape. This is what is affording us to be weak in certain areas and still win a triple crown and possibly a championship.

Bed this system in for 12 more months and see where we're at... I'm pretty confident in predicting that it'll be better than now.

leakyboots · 19-03-2022 11:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807021#Comment_118807021

I still have big concerns about Lowe at this level defensively. He didn't get tested much in the tournament the way it panned out with the red card v England and playing Italy before today. The offload today will grab people's attention but he got bundled into touch or threw poor offloads and missed a few tackles. Hansen was comfortably the better winger today

Lowe still offers a good bit going forward and that big boot comes in handy... but wing positions are still up for grabs for me.

ersatz · 19-03-2022 11:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807530#Comment_118807530

Sextons interview was telling, the interviewer pointed out there were areas to improve and Johnny’s reaction was to laugh as if to say, ‘yeah, we were shite in lots of areas, we know all about it.’ I remember 2018 when we were executing the plan to perfection and won a grand slam. The plan was too limited though and 12 months later was past its sell by date. Now we are winning well but with obvious areas of improvement in execution. But the team are playing with a very high level of confidence with a high level versatility and dynamism. They know what the are trying to fo and in a year will be cooking it better. One of the takeaways today was that the tactics were quite different from last week, fewer loops and intricacy, more territory and short carrying inside game. That’s all very positive.

molloyjh · 19-03-2022 11:11pm

Is there any point in talking about what that performance would or wouldn’t do against SA or NZ? We weren’t playing SA or NZ. We’d almost certainly have upped our game against them. And it’s also more than worth noting that Scotland spoil. It’s what they do. Make a mess of everything and hope for the best. We’re several months behind France in our development to the RWC and we have a small fraction of their resources. Yet we were very close to turning them over in Paris in what was their best performance of the tournament.

The other teams were all poor this year. And that suited France. They bottled it last week against a Welsh side that couldn’t take advantage. Wales do that and we win the tournament.

We haven’t played to our potential since Paris really. Yet we have won all of those games comfortably. There’s plenty of positives there.

fitz · 19-03-2022 11:24pm

The worries I have after this tournament are nothing to do with how we trying to play, or the fact that it hasn't quite clicked consistently.

We need better depth at 1 and 3, we still don't have a backup 10 that's anywhere close to Sexton, and we need to look at our penalty count generally - we don't want refs to see us as a poorly disciplined team coming into a world cup year.

I think this squad will learn a huge amount from the NZ tour. Get a first win down there and we'll get great momentum from it.

molloyjh · 19-03-2022 11:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807818#Comment_118807818

Our discipline hasn’t really been an issue. Italy conceded the least number of penalties (46), then France (47) and then Ireland (50). Beating in mind last week we were penalised a number of time when we shouldn’t have been and had 4 really stupid penalties that we shouldn’t really have conceded. It was an outlier from that perspective and that’s the difference between us being 3rd and either 1st or 2nd in terms of discipline.

Depth in a few positions is the big concern though all right. The problem is that there isn’t the depth there. Farrell can’t magic it out of nowhere. It’s probably a lot to ask that we have 25 or so top quality test players given our resources.

fitz · 19-03-2022 11:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807863#Comment_118807863

Yeah, don't disagree... Discipline hasn't been terrible, but there definitely been a few occasions it's slipped and we've figured up more than we used to. Just think it's something we need to keep an eye on so it doesn't become an issue.

The depth thing is the big one really, and we're absolutely at the mercy of who manages to come through in time.

TRC10 · 20-03-2022 8:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807098#Comment_118807098

We've won our last 3 because we've played against 3 very poor teams (one of which had 13 men, one had 14). We've been poor in every single one, it's just none of them have been good enough to punish us. If you think we're playing very well, I don't know what planet you're living on. If we carry this form into the summer, it will be a slaughter like the 2012 tour. I don't buy the argument that we're only making errors because of this new style we're bedding in. We didn't make anywhere near as many errors against NZ, Japan and Wales.

I just don't think it's as rosy in the garden as everyone's making out. Had Ewels not had a brain explosion after 80 seconds in Twickenham, it would be 3 wins from 5 again, for the third year in a row. Losing Porter and Kelleher has decimated our scrum, which has been utterly taken apart the last two games, which should be a massive concern (but I suppose Scotland we're just cheating, right). The age profile of the team going into a world cup year is not ideal, the majority of the backs being 30+, similar to 2019. Both our 9s are 30+, Sexton turns 37 in the summer, Aki is turning 32, Conway turns 31, Lowe turns 30. We missed a huge chance to give Balouocune a run yesterday, Hansen hasn't been convincing over the last couple of games and RB definitely has a far higher ceiling. I think Doris is massively overrated, and I won't buy into his hype until he stops making so many stupid errors. Carty was the form out half coming into the tournament and should have seen more than 6 minutes, yet we stick with a guy who hasn't shown any form in 3 years.

I think we're starting to see teams figure us out a bit. Our play is heavily reliant and fast ruck ball, so if you heavily attack our breakdown you can really stifle our game, and I've no doubt that's what teams will start to do. Similar to how teams figured out if you hit us with fast linespeed in 2019, we'd crumble. And we're still highly susceptible to being physically bullied, as we saw v England and France.

That's not to say there hasn't been positives. Keenan established himself as one of the top fullbacks in the world (and in Lowry we have 2 very good options there). VDF established himself as one of the top 7s. We're trying to play a great brand of rugby. Ringrose is back to form (even though I think a fully fit Henshaw is a better 13).

I just don't think we're near as good as we think we are, and could be in for a very rude awakening in the summer.

lawrencesummers · 20-03-2022 8:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118807701#Comment_118807701

Any chance of stockdale putting his boots on again?

brokenangel · 20-03-2022 9:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808342#Comment_118808342

Have you watched England play? they could of had 18 on the field v Ireland & France and would still be looking for the try line. They have no game plan, Marcus Smith looks a shadow of himself because of the game plan and they only scored a try against France because they moved away from the game plan and passed the ball.

Wales who are terrible, should have beaten England in twickers as well

Former Former Former · 20-03-2022 10:05am

The problem here is that the response to "we're playing well" is always "OH SO EVERYTHING IS PERFECT AND WE'RE GOING TO WIN THE WORLD CUP ARE WE?!"

We have plenty to work on and plenty of gaps in the depth chart. No one is unaware of this and I'm guessing it's why the IRFU are doing a five game tour to NZ for the first time in at least 20 years. I would expect 40-odd players to go and I don't expect anyone to be given the summer off (ie yes, Sexton, Murray, POM and Healy will go).

Isn't this exactly what we "should" be doing?

It's a pity people can't enjoy the good days when they come. Yesterday was a good day.

brokenangel · 20-03-2022 10:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808511#Comment_118808511

The WC will look after itself.

I would prefer to concentrate on winning a 6 nations next year. We need a back up 10 for the 6 nations, never mind the WC. Sexton cannot play 5 matchs one after another, he couldn't this season and he can't last season. Carbery is not the answer. The France & Italy game confirmed that for me. He is still a class player but not a 10.

We have France at home next season. England as well. Scotland and Wales could have new coachs and totally focused on the WC. That should be the aim

Win that and then look at what we need for a WC

tooka · 20-03-2022 10:40am

Ireland want to make a semi final, standing in their way is France or New Zealand

let’s deal with the simple but harsh facts

at props, lock, 6 and 10 we have serious problems that Farrell must fix fast.

sexton is too old, carbery not trusted by management, Beal ham, kilcoyne and Healy not up to the required standard, at 6 Doris has to start 8 as it’s the position he can best influence a game and Pom is finished at this level, Beirne to 6 need to happen and we need to find 2 locks to step up.

Farrell needs to go to New Zealand and he has to try over the whole series to find depth at those positions

if he tries and fails than fair enough he tried. But If he just selects the same good old boys he is sleepwalking Ireland into another disastrous World Cup

TRC10 · 20-03-2022 10:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808604#Comment_118808604

at props, lock, 6 and 10 we have serious problems that Farrell must fix fast.

The problem is, Farrell can't magic players out of thin air. He can only work with the players he has.

If players aren't putting their hands up with performances for their provinces, there's fcuk all Farrell can do

mfceiling · 20-03-2022 10:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808342#Comment_118808342

Our scrum wasn't "utterly taken apart" yesterday so that is clearly not true.

We were taken apart in Twickenham yes but the referees report comes out after the game to say that a good few of those scrum penalties shouldn't have been given.

tooka · 20-03-2022 11:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808631#Comment_118808631

I don’t believe that there are no players coming through , the provinces need to be told to fast track and that making the semi over rides what the provinces want

also Quinn roux should have never been let go.