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Wind turbine

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  • 17-03-2022 4:04pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 16


    Hi,

    Can anyone give me information on building a wind turbine, I'm finding it very hard to get information.



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,972 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    So here's the thing with wind turbines, they work best when they have a clean and constant airflow across them. Also the bigger the turbine, the larger the swept area and thus the greater amount of power generated

    This is why turbines keep getting bigger, they're trying to get at cleaner airflow higher above ground level and make the most of that airflow by having a huge swept area


    So, back to small turbines. Rooftop turbines have very poor airflow because they're in built up areas. You can look on the internet at any bunch of magical wonder turbines that will promise to power your house even in the worst conditions. But the simple truth is this, if the airflow is crap, then the amount of power generated will be crap, regardless of how good the design is


    Slightly larger turbines in rural areas do better but they're still going to face airflow problems depending on where they're located.

    Larger turbines also require planning permission, and mention the word wind turbine out loud and suddenly you'll find a mob being organised to run you out of town

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 446 ✭✭ec_pc


    Also potentially interested, in rural area and a site which generally has a good wind flow. Not looking for a huge turbine, but somethint that makes sense financially, environmentally etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,972 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Would it not make sense to install solar instead? If you have land then you can install a ground mounted array pretty cheaply and the payback period would be better IMO

    Also, I would imagine getting planning permission would be a lot easier

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Nelbert


    There's an Irish supplier who's website I've been looking at. Wind turbines appear to be polish made with a flat roof mount option....

    They have a list of criteria to meet for planning exemption which all seems fine.

    They are the vertical style but as with much of this type of thing aesthetic is the biggest challenge.

    I'm near the coast and could mount it on the roof of the new shed I plan to build which would place it in as open an area as you are going to get in an urban setting.

    My thinking is when the shed is replaced to have a raised parapet on the roof to minimise aesthetic (of the mount).

    I'm thinking a weather station type thing is the way to go to assess wind speed in the potential install area over a period of time to know if it's viable option Vs solar panels....

    Wind certainly seems an attractive prospect for me in winter (recent heat pump install).

    Think pay back would be similar if not quicker with turbine.... In the right location you could be practically off grid (fully if with big enough battery to store excess for really calm days).



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    I think you are reading too much into literature, wind in no way beats solar for us domestic folk, we have good solar PV grants and panels are cheap and zero maintenance.

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. outdoor furniture, roof box and EDDI

    My Active Ads (adverts.ie)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Yeah, I'd chime in with what slave mentions. I want to really get in behind wind - I really do. If I could get away with it I'd have a 500w turbine here in D16. Neighbors would go mental of course....with due cause to be fair. Noise, danger (of the thing coming down etc) not at least that its a pain with the specifics of the planing exemptions.

    Sadly unless you put one on a mount about 40ft (ideally 60ft) up our in a rural setting, you'll struggle to get the rated power off them. Countless videos on Youtube confirming same. I don't say that to be negative, just stating what i think the reality is as I wouldn't want you to go to the trouble/expense of getting one setup only to be let down.

    That said, if you are out in "da country" and have the ability to mount it clear of structures - have at it! Jealous. Compliments solar quite nicely as in the darker months (winter) the wind is typically stronger. Sure, 500w doesn't sound like a lot, but if it's doing it 18-20 hrs on a windy day, that's a nice addition to the pot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Nelbert


    Sorry to clarify... I'm seeing it as complimentary not instead of solar.... I'm thinking of biting in to my winter usage (heat pump only turned on to reheat hot water for best part of 6 months last year).

    Using the solar forecast integration with home assistant at the moment to assess how much an impact it would likely yield.... And it's certainly looking very positive for March to October but wind if an aesthetically acceptable option was doable could help take a chunk out of the winter usage.

    I certainly wouldn't be jumping on a turbine without setting up a weather station or something on the current shed roof for a while to track wind speed (similar to assessing solar potential at the moment). It would be a good investment no matter whether it proved or disproved a case for a wind turbine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    I certainly wouldn't be jumping on a turbine without setting up a weather station or something on the current shed roof for a while to track wind speed (similar to assessing solar potential at the moment). It would be a good investment no matter whether it proved or disproved a case for a wind turbine.

    You see therein lies a part of the problem. If you look up the regs for planning permission.

    Planing Permission for wind turbines - exemptions - Eurecca.ie

    Specifically for you....

    • The turbine shall not be erected on or attached to the house or any building or other structure within its curtilage.

    So you legally can't affix it to the side of your house, or a shed. Course you can fix your weather monitor there of course, but not the turbine. It sort of has to be on a pole pretty much and the height a factor from the boundary of your house. Meaning that your weather monitor may not give good indication (lower probably)

    If your out the country, most people would have ample enough land for such a structure, urban no chance. Some good historic winds websites around which will tell you the average wind speed for every month of the year for your location. I think if you have 5m/s your doing pretty good.

    Still not to sound negative, if you have the land (and the inclination) I'd be giving it a lash myself



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭reboot


    People , no matter what thread,seem obsessed with,bigger,faster,more power,be it solar,PV, turbines,EVs.

    Are we not missing the point, ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,171 ✭✭✭irishchris




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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,168 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Neighbour of mine has a 20ft turbine and is disappointed with the amount of power it produces.

    Don't ask me anything about it, what power it is or his battery setup, sorry don't know much about it.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,889 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Was looking into the tesup turbines earlier on the year (looks like they have a v4 now of the vertical type)

    Found a couple of videos online, all looked promising but then further ones with it falling to bits/breaking down.

    And to continue with that one, it needs 5m/s to start spinning.

    But if your grid tieing it, it uses a 48v growatt inverter, so it needs to have 6m/s to start to run that. (It's in the manual)

    6m/s is 20km/h

    I went and got a weather station. I do get a decent amount of wind, but it's very inconsistent.

    Then the likes of the tower etc more solar gets a lot more appealing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,168 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    What sort of money are you talking to build a half decent ground based solar array? I have a large back garden, and the lower half in quite damp, only improving in the summer months. I wouldn't mind giving it up to put down solar panels. It would catch the sun for large part of the day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16 TomWH


    Hi all,

    A very special thanks to everyone's contributions here.

    I should clarify my house is isolated, I'm hoping to erect a freestanding turbine, maximum height 11 meters, thus no planning permission required.

    What's required to generate say 2000 watts per day on average?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16 TomWH


    500 watts, does that mean it generates on average 500w per day?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    No, that's 500w is an instantaneous amount. 500watts would be the power output of the turbine - assuming that the turbine was running at full tilt.

    The thinking is that you take this power and put it into a battery and store that over some time, and then you could run higher loads like a oven/kettle, which might require 2Kw.

    It's important to clarify the terms. 1,000 watts or 1Kw is "power". 1Kwhr is amount of power. (basically 1Kwhr is the amount of power that 1kw would need if you ran it for an hour, or 2Kw for 30 mins etc)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Nelbert


    Uggghhhhh.... I saw the flat roof mount on their site and assumed it covered off...... Not sure of point of flat roof mount if you're not allowed stick it on a roof.......


    I'd have covered the height and other requirements with a roof mount but if it goes on its own pole the distance to boundary is more of a factor.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger



    The regs are quite limiting I feel. Still, if your "out da country" where your nearest neighbor is like 100m away, and hopefully he's/she is not a gombean, then I'd say you'd be fine. There's not exactly a set of police that go around inspecting houses for compliancy. The worst thing that you'll have is a neighbor "ratting you out" to the local council that you're in breach of the regs......so they'll have to care.

    If your kosher with the neighbors I'd say you'd be fine attaching say a 15-20ft pole to the side of a shed and getting it 25-30ft into the air. I reckon you could probably get a low end system up and running for <€1,500. Run it for a year or two and see what kind of actual production you get out of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,972 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I thought you could attach a small turbine to your house roof without planning permission?

    The problem with those small turbines is that you'd want some kind of pitch management to maximise the power output is poor wind conditions

    But that adds a lot of expense, making it basically uneconomical. So we're stuck with the cheapo fixed pitch turbines

    I do wonder if those €250 turbines ever work out. I mean they'd probably only generate 100W, but if it's constant then it could meet a fair amount of your houses base load

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Nelbert


    Would love to know myself. Even a couple of hundred watts if near enough constant could have a massive impact.

    Every single bulb in the house is LED. Automated to turn off if room not in use etc.

    I made a mistake on the dryer purchase due to budget and didn't get the newer heat pump ones but will address that in the next year or so.

    After that my usage is as low as I can reasonably get it I think.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16 TomWH


    For a decent solar panel job I was quoted about €7000 after grant.

    You can go smaller of coarse, but you'd need to spend that much to generate decent electricity for a not so big house.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,972 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    How many kWp was that quote for? It could be good or bad depending on the size of the system or panels


    It's worth checking it on the solar quotes thread if you haven't already done so, to see how it compares


    Although with the renewed interest in microgeneration, I imagine bargains will be few and far between

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Sadly not mate.

    • The turbine shall not be erected on or attached to the house or any building or other structure within its curtilage.

    So basically your prohibited from attaching to any decent fixed structure (house/shed). I know....shower of xxxx the lot of them. I know where they are coming from, but yeah. Still, if your out in a rural setting, I can't see any reason why you couldn't fix one to a shed or some farm yard structure. If the "council" as to come around, are they "really" going to ask to to take down? What in this climate warming world? No I'd say your safe enough....

    As for pitch angle optimization, you won't see that on those cheap chinese jobbies. Nearly every one of those reviewed on you tube have poor ratings - basically that you don't get what they advertise. The 500w ones rock in at 150w or there abouts. Now that's (to be fair) isn't bad for the cheap money that you spend, but if you want a decent output I'd probably go with something reputable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,032 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Forget it.


    Many years ago, against the advice of my more knowledgeable peers, I mounted a VAWT (vertical axis wind turbine) onto a 6m pole on my property in a valley in south Dublin, with no houses or trees for several hundred meters in the direction the prevailing south westerly wind is coming from. The results were beyond poor. Just don't do it. Install sh1t tonnes of PV instead. That actually works, is far cheaper per kWh produced and you even get a huge subsidy if you get it installed by an official installer.


    Wind is great, it's the cheapest way to generate electricity, but it only works if you go huge. Think a 200m high 16MW turbine in the sea.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16 TomWH


    *******, a Dublin based company quoted me €7645 for 10 panel solar.

    3.55KWp output, 2KW battery included.

    Price was quoted on 28th April last year. That's after grant being paid.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,120 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    No naming company names, please.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16 TomWH


    My property is certainly not in a valley, therefore I think I have that much going for me.

    How much electricity did you get from the turbine, would it boil a kettle once a day? Is vertical axis better?

    About 1940 my grandfather had a turbine on the hill near my house, I don't know how successful or not it was, unfortunately that same location can't be used now because of ESB wires!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,032 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Boiling a kettle once a day costs about 3000W * 2 minutes * 19c / kWh = €0.02

    Up to you if that's worth your investment of several grand...



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Go on go on go on

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. outdoor furniture, roof box and EDDI

    My Active Ads (adverts.ie)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 994 ✭✭✭Mr Q


    Log the wind speed where you are going to fit the turbine for twelve months. Otherwise you are guessing.

    I will be doing this with a LeWL Wind Logger. Unlikely after the 12 months that I have enough wind speed to make it worth while but at least I will know for sure.

    It would be a good winter addition to PV if it was viable.



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