Wind turbine

TomWH · 17-03-2022 4:04pm #1

Hi,

Can anyone give me information on building a wind turbine, I'm finding it very hard to get information.

the_amazing_raisin · 17-03-2022 8:25pm

So here's the thing with wind turbines, they work best when they have a clean and constant airflow across them. Also the bigger the turbine, the larger the swept area and thus the greater amount of power generated

This is why turbines keep getting bigger, they're trying to get at cleaner airflow higher above ground level and make the most of that airflow by having a huge swept area

So, back to small turbines. Rooftop turbines have very poor airflow because they're in built up areas. You can look on the internet at any bunch of magical wonder turbines that will promise to power your house even in the worst conditions. But the simple truth is this, if the airflow is crap, then the amount of power generated will be crap, regardless of how good the design is

Slightly larger turbines in rural areas do better but they're still going to face airflow problems depending on where they're located.

Larger turbines also require planning permission, and mention the word wind turbine out loud and suddenly you'll find a mob being organised to run you out of town

ec_pc · 17-03-2022 10:07pm

Also potentially interested, in rural area and a site which generally has a good wind flow. Not looking for a huge turbine, but somethint that makes sense financially, environmentally etc.

the_amazing_raisin · 18-03-2022 8:12am

Would it not make sense to install solar instead? If you have land then you can install a ground mounted array pretty cheaply and the payback period would be better IMO

Also, I would imagine getting planning permission would be a lot easier

Nelbert · 18-03-2022 11:39am

There's an Irish supplier who's website I've been looking at. Wind turbines appear to be polish made with a flat roof mount option....

They have a list of criteria to meet for planning exemption which all seems fine.

They are the vertical style but as with much of this type of thing aesthetic is the biggest challenge.

I'm near the coast and could mount it on the roof of the new shed I plan to build which would place it in as open an area as you are going to get in an urban setting.

My thinking is when the shed is replaced to have a raised parapet on the roof to minimise aesthetic (of the mount).

I'm thinking a weather station type thing is the way to go to assess wind speed in the potential install area over a period of time to know if it's viable option Vs solar panels....

Wind certainly seems an attractive prospect for me in winter (recent heat pump install).

Think pay back would be similar if not quicker with turbine.... In the right location you could be practically off grid (fully if with big enough battery to store excess for really calm days).

slave1 · 18-03-2022 4:25pm

I think you are reading too much into literature, wind in no way beats solar for us domestic folk, we have good solar PV grants and panels are cheap and zero maintenance.

bullit_dodger · 18-03-2022 5:58pm

Yeah, I'd chime in with what slave mentions. I want to really get in behind wind - I really do. If I could get away with it I'd have a 500w turbine here in D16. Neighbors would go mental of course....with due cause to be fair. Noise, danger (of the thing coming down etc) not at least that its a pain with the specifics of the planing exemptions.

Sadly unless you put one on a mount about 40ft (ideally 60ft) up our in a rural setting, you'll struggle to get the rated power off them. Countless videos on Youtube confirming same. I don't say that to be negative, just stating what i think the reality is as I wouldn't want you to go to the trouble/expense of getting one setup only to be let down.

That said, if you are out in "da country" and have the ability to mount it clear of structures - have at it! Jealous. Compliments solar quite nicely as in the darker months (winter) the wind is typically stronger. Sure, 500w doesn't sound like a lot, but if it's doing it 18-20 hrs on a windy day, that's a nice addition to the pot.

Nelbert · 18-03-2022 6:38pm

Sorry to clarify... I'm seeing it as complimentary not instead of solar.... I'm thinking of biting in to my winter usage (heat pump only turned on to reheat hot water for best part of 6 months last year).

Using the solar forecast integration with home assistant at the moment to assess how much an impact it would likely yield.... And it's certainly looking very positive for March to October but wind if an aesthetically acceptable option was doable could help take a chunk out of the winter usage.

I certainly wouldn't be jumping on a turbine without setting up a weather station or something on the current shed roof for a while to track wind speed (similar to assessing solar potential at the moment). It would be a good investment no matter whether it proved or disproved a case for a wind turbine.

bullit_dodger · 18-03-2022 7:37pm

I certainly wouldn't be jumping on a turbine without setting up a weather station or something on the current shed roof for a while to track wind speed (similar to assessing solar potential at the moment). It would be a good investment no matter whether it proved or disproved a case for a wind turbine.

You see therein lies a part of the problem. If you look up the regs for planning permission.

Planing Permission for wind turbines - exemptions - Eurecca.ie

Specifically for you....

The turbine shall not be erected on or attached to the house or any building or other structure within its curtilage.

So you legally can't affix it to the side of your house, or a shed. Course you can fix your weather monitor there of course, but not the turbine. It sort of has to be on a pole pretty much and the height a factor from the boundary of your house. Meaning that your weather monitor may not give good indication (lower probably)

If your out the country, most people would have ample enough land for such a structure, urban no chance. Some good historic winds websites around which will tell you the average wind speed for every month of the year for your location. I think if you have 5m/s your doing pretty good.

Still not to sound negative, if you have the land (and the inclination) I'd be giving it a lash myself

reboot · 18-03-2022 10:47pm

People , no matter what thread,seem obsessed with,bigger,faster,more power,be it solar,PV, turbines,EVs.

Are we not missing the point, ?

irishchris · 18-03-2022 11:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118803825#Comment_118803825

I think I must be. Enlighten me

NIMAN · 18-03-2022 11:37pm

Neighbour of mine has a 20ft turbine and is disappointed with the amount of power it produces.

Don't ask me anything about it, what power it is or his battery setup, sorry don't know much about it.

graememk · 19-03-2022 12:06am

Was looking into the tesup turbines earlier on the year (looks like they have a v4 now of the vertical type)

Found a couple of videos online, all looked promising but then further ones with it falling to bits/breaking down.

And to continue with that one, it needs 5m/s to start spinning.

But if your grid tieing it, it uses a 48v growatt inverter, so it needs to have 6m/s to start to run that. (It's in the manual)

6m/s is 20km/h

I went and got a weather station. I do get a decent amount of wind, but it's very inconsistent.

Then the likes of the tower etc more solar gets a lot more appealing.

NIMAN · 19-03-2022 12:10am

What sort of money are you talking to build a half decent ground based solar array? I have a large back garden, and the lower half in quite damp, only improving in the summer months. I wouldn't mind giving it up to put down solar panels. It would catch the sun for large part of the day.

TomWH · 19-03-2022 12:53am

Hi all,

A very special thanks to everyone's contributions here.

I should clarify my house is isolated, I'm hoping to erect a freestanding turbine, maximum height 11 meters, thus no planning permission required.

What's required to generate say 2000 watts per day on average?

TomWH · 19-03-2022 12:57am

500 watts, does that mean it generates on average 500w per day?

bullit_dodger · 19-03-2022 1:08am

No, that's 500w is an instantaneous amount. 500watts would be the power output of the turbine - assuming that the turbine was running at full tilt.

The thinking is that you take this power and put it into a battery and store that over some time, and then you could run higher loads like a oven/kettle, which might require 2Kw.

It's important to clarify the terms. 1,000 watts or 1Kw is "power". 1Kwhr is amount of power. (basically 1Kwhr is the amount of power that 1kw would need if you ran it for an hour, or 2Kw for 30 mins etc)

Nelbert · 19-03-2022 11:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802995#Comment_118802995

Uggghhhhh.... I saw the flat roof mount on their site and assumed it covered off...... Not sure of point of flat roof mount if you're not allowed stick it on a roof.......

I'd have covered the height and other requirements with a roof mount but if it goes on its own pole the distance to boundary is more of a factor.

bullit_dodger · 19-03-2022 1:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118804911#Comment_118804911

The regs are quite limiting I feel. Still, if your "out da country" where your nearest neighbor is like 100m away, and hopefully he's/she is not a gombean, then I'd say you'd be fine. There's not exactly a set of police that go around inspecting houses for compliancy. The worst thing that you'll have is a neighbor "ratting you out" to the local council that you're in breach of the regs......so they'll have to care.

If your kosher with the neighbors I'd say you'd be fine attaching say a 15-20ft pole to the side of a shed and getting it 25-30ft into the air. I reckon you could probably get a low end system up and running for <€1,500. Run it for a year or two and see what kind of actual production you get out of it.

the_amazing_raisin · 19-03-2022 3:16pm

I thought you could attach a small turbine to your house roof without planning permission?

The problem with those small turbines is that you'd want some kind of pitch management to maximise the power output is poor wind conditions

But that adds a lot of expense, making it basically uneconomical. So we're stuck with the cheapo fixed pitch turbines

I do wonder if those €250 turbines ever work out. I mean they'd probably only generate 100W, but if it's constant then it could meet a fair amount of your houses base load

Nelbert · 19-03-2022 4:38pm

Would love to know myself. Even a couple of hundred watts if near enough constant could have a massive impact.

Every single bulb in the house is LED. Automated to turn off if room not in use etc.

I made a mistake on the dryer purchase due to budget and didn't get the newer heat pump ones but will address that in the next year or so.

After that my usage is as low as I can reasonably get it I think.

TomWH · 19-03-2022 5:31pm

For a decent solar panel job I was quoted about €7000 after grant.

You can go smaller of coarse, but you'd need to spend that much to generate decent electricity for a not so big house.

the_amazing_raisin · 19-03-2022 8:30pm

How many kWp was that quote for? It could be good or bad depending on the size of the system or panels

It's worth checking it on the solar quotes thread if you haven't already done so, to see how it compares

Although with the renewed interest in microgeneration, I imagine bargains will be few and far between

bullit_dodger · 20-03-2022 12:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805700#Comment_118805700

Sadly not mate.

The turbine shall not be erected on or attached to the house or any building or other structure within its curtilage.

So basically your prohibited from attaching to any decent fixed structure (house/shed). I know....shower of xxxx the lot of them. I know where they are coming from, but yeah. Still, if your out in a rural setting, I can't see any reason why you couldn't fix one to a shed or some farm yard structure. If the "council" as to come around, are they "really" going to ask to to take down? What in this climate warming world? No I'd say your safe enough....

As for pitch angle optimization, you won't see that on those cheap chinese jobbies. Nearly every one of those reviewed on you tube have poor ratings - basically that you don't get what they advertise. The 500w ones rock in at 150w or there abouts. Now that's (to be fair) isn't bad for the cheap money that you spend, but if you want a decent output I'd probably go with something reputable.

unkel · 20-03-2022 12:36am

Forget it.

Many years ago, against the advice of my more knowledgeable peers, I mounted a VAWT (vertical axis wind turbine) onto a 6m pole on my property in a valley in south Dublin, with no houses or trees for several hundred meters in the direction the prevailing south westerly wind is coming from. The results were beyond poor. Just don't do it. Install sh1t tonnes of PV instead. That actually works, is far cheaper per kWh produced and you even get a huge subsidy if you get it installed by an official installer.

Wind is great, it's the cheapest way to generate electricity, but it only works if you go huge. Think a 200m high 16MW turbine in the sea.

TomWH · 21-03-2022 12:24pm

*******, a Dublin based company quoted me €7645 for 10 panel solar.

3.55KWp output, 2KW battery included.

Price was quoted on 28th April last year. That's after grant being paid.

Jonathan · 21-03-2022 12:27pm

No naming company names, please.

TomWH · 21-03-2022 10:27pm

My property is certainly not in a valley, therefore I think I have that much going for me.

How much electricity did you get from the turbine, would it boil a kettle once a day? Is vertical axis better?

About 1940 my grandfather had a turbine on the hill near my house, I don't know how successful or not it was, unfortunately that same location can't be used now because of ESB wires!!

unkel · 22-03-2022 10:03am

Boiling a kettle once a day costs about 3000W * 2 minutes * 19c / kWh = €0.02

Up to you if that's worth your investment of several grand...

slave1 · 22-03-2022 1:59pm

Go on go on go on

Mr Q · 24-03-2022 2:20pm

Log the wind speed where you are going to fit the turbine for twelve months. Otherwise you are guessing.

I will be doing this with a LeWL Wind Logger. Unlikely after the 12 months that I have enough wind speed to make it worth while but at least I will know for sure.

It would be a good winter addition to PV if it was viable.

Wind turbine

Comments