Wind turbine

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817526#Comment_118817526

Here's a fun project, get one of those cheap 24V turbines you see on yachts and use it to charge the battery on a laptop. You could probably get a cheap voltage converter to keep everything DC

Then set a timer on the laptop to wake it at the same time every day and start mining bitcoin until the battery runs out

Probably the best payback period of any small turbine, and a simple/cheap setup as well

unkel

Did all that years ago ;-)

reboot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118804161#Comment_118804161

I think you have to start from the other end, how much power do you need ? As mentioned elsewhere, I'm interested only in staying small scale,on the ground, away from the mains. It's amazing how much modern technology can operate from a 12v dc and 5v USB setup. It's only a hobby, but I would spend €300 max.

unkel

Now that is good advice, reboot. Only spend a tiny amount to start and you will get to know the tech and what it can do. If you buy well, you should be able to sell it for what you paid or only a tiny bit less if you decide to change system or upgrade.

reboot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118831885#Comment_118831885

Totally agree, why are people who say,why bother,if you can just fick a switch, sure your not saving much, even on this thread?

You get either get it or you don't. Thanks, good to see some adults still here.

reboot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118831643#Comment_118831643

You might like to check out,"Simple basic and cheap" ,thread in Renewable Energies. The longest journey and ? all that.Not wishing to cross threads!

reboot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802995#Comment_118802995

I'd advise against ever attaching a turbine to the house structure, I've sadly done it. The Vibration would drive you crazy. Good technical points, also of note is K Watts is a DC function. My turbine is AC , connected to a 3 phase rectifier,converting to DC. Strictly speaking when speaking in AC power terms, KVA is used.( Kilovolt amps), considering power facture correction etc.Interesting how many ESB EV charge points,AC only, are marked in K Watts.

reboot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118831885#Comment_118831885

To give a greatly over simplified thought experiment I used my small brain for.

In order for me to charge devices USB 5v dc, the power company transmit 44,000 volts AC.

I then have to buy a mains charger,and plug. it into 230v mains.

I thought, why not spend at least € 20 ,buy a small solar panel, already have an old 12v battery, or saved lipo from discarded devices, buy a cigar plug in the pound shop, 12/24 v In 5v out.

Farmers showing great interest as they dump their 12v non rechargeable fence batteries, in favour of solar alternative.

Many years ago , folk in Japan painted the roof, turning it in a solar collector, 9v dc, enough to charge USB.

I've zero interest in paying installers,sorry, to mount panels on my roof, when I can't turn the house round to track the sun.

But then everyone's different, but we are always learning, even from our mistakes.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118838837#Comment_118838837

People just about get the difference between kW and kWh never mind VA!

And we as domestic consumers get charged for kWh not kVAh

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118839893#Comment_118839893

I've said this before but it's refreshing reboot to see people like yourself on the forums promoting lower end stuff. Even simple things like using rechargeable batteries instead of disposable ones does make a difference. I'd say I've not bought a disposable battery in 2 decades! I don't know why people don't things like that more myself. Like you I also have a 20 watt solar panel with 5000mAh battery bank which I use to charge my phone occasionally.....when I remember to put it at the window to charge! :-)

The problem of course is that while all these things are good and fun, there's only so much you can do with that level of power. Hard to wash clothes at even 40C from a 50 watt panel, let alone drive in/out to work. For that you need more oomph. I don't have a EV, but I kind of like the concept of driving around Ireland on sunshine! If you said that to someone even 25 years ago they'd look at you as if you were mad.

unkel

It's not that mad an idea now at all. Obviously you'd need to take it handy on some of the dark days in winter 😂

Some simple maths. I live in a small semi-detached house in an estate in a suburb of Dublin. I have 8kwp of solar PV. All south facing, this generates about 7500kWh per year. An average Irish house uses 3000kWh per year so that leaves 4500kWh. Like many people these days, I work mostly from home so the car is mostly at home too. If I could use all that for my EV and it averages say 18kWh / 100km, my house would produce enough for 25k km in that EV, well above the national average.

If every house in the country did the above, and we would erect a few hundred more very large wind turbines (of the 16-20MW variety) and we'd have access to storage (in the form of batteries, pumped hydro, storage in EVs, interconnectors, production of H2, etc. etc.) we would need no more fossil fuels at all (apart from aviation for now)

reboot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118840521#Comment_118840521

Someone said that if every house in these islands replaced just one tungsten ( 90 plus % energy o/p is heat, the rest light), with an led bulb, a nuclear station could be shut down. One billion AA batteries are dumped every year, etc.

reboot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118839893#Comment_118839893

Sad to witness how many of our young folk leave education, not knowing, or caring ,the difference between an amp and a volt..Yet happy to march to support Gretta.

The purpose of education is to replace an empty mind,with an open one.

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118840768#Comment_118840768

Open to what is the question though

reboot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118840829#Comment_118840829

Good question, might be sent to philosophy thread, man from Rolls Royce on the radio this morning, saying they are hoping to roll, sorry, out SMR s by 2030.

Essentially Small Modular reactors, flat pack, size of 2 football pitches.

Seems if we don't try to use less,or engage in our own wee solar/ wind projects,the nuclear lobby is here to stay and growing, on the basis of energy security. Fusion reactor record stands at 5 seconds.

Maybe folk are not interested in the technical nuances, but electricity is dangerous, lipo batteries and electric vehicles, turbines,off load and even small pv , can set fire to your house,or kill you.

But I digress,as usual.maybe one answer is "Open " to exchanging ideas, and trying to stay with facts and less on opinions?

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118838909#Comment_118838909

That reminded me of an article a read a while back about some group that was trying to replace the AC circuitry in houses with a low voltage DC supply

Basically beside your fuse box you'd have a rectifier and DC converter to take the 230V AC supply down to something like 48V which would then be distributed around the house

You'd still have AC sockets in the kitchen and utility room for high powered appliances, but the majority of household gadgets only need a few hundred watts

Apparently they had a bunch of manufacturers on board because it would vastly simplify their power supply design, only a voltage converter needed instead of a big power brick

It was tied to the smart home initiative and I think because that never really took off it kinda ended up being forgotten about

bullit_dodger

It's a really interesting idea to be fair. Probably not well suited to the original point of this thread of "Wind Turbine", but I'd be keen to continue this discussion in it's own thread if needed?

Low voltage house: I really like the theory, but the reality is not-workable in practice. The problem with low voltage DC circuitry is that they are fine for lights/sensors/charging battery operated stuff. Effectively the low power requirements that you mention raisin, but when you think about it the whole wiring would wreck your head in the house. You'd have (in effect) two separate systems in your house then.

Potentially you could have a wall socket in one room incapable of powering a fan heater, that you might want to plug in there because it doesn't have the juice. So you lose that flexibility. What you could do then to give back that flexibility is have both sets of wires going to the socket with different size 3 pin plugs depending on the load requirements for the device.

The low end power requirements wouldn't fit into the larger plug etc. But it'd be a disaster waiting to happen. The whole thing about wiring regs is that they (try) to make it as simple as possible. Introducing that type of solution, while "technically" you could get it to work....in reality, you'd have some muppet kill someone due to not understanding the wiring. You know the type of person I'm talking about here :-) LOL No there's a lot of good thinking gone into this and a 220v standard across the house makes sense, decided at a time when there wasn't LED's etc.

Side point: I often wondered about why we (Europe) picked 220v and 50Hz when the US folk picked 110v and 60Hz. The voltage is easy enough. We're "tight gits" with our money and 110v needs thicker cables to transfer the same power. Thicker cables = more copper = more expense....this is due to good reasons that power delivery where the resistance increases with the sq of the current that make 220v "better"....but I digress.. Never did get a good reason for the 50Hz though. 60Hz would seem to make more sense to me as it maps to the 60 seconds in a minute, so you could sync things easier. I heard it was cause with 60hz the lights don't "flicker" as much, but dunno if that's "really" the reason.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842480#Comment_118842480

Man do I have a video for you..

https://youtu.be/jMmUoZh3Hq4

(Technology connections, all about the split phase in the US) oh side side note, them 110v transformers on building sites are centre tapped too, so the between the 2 conductors it's 110v but from a single conductor to ground is only 55v

Jonathan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842626#Comment_118842626

Between bigclive, technology connections and will prowse, I think we share a common YouTube subscription list 😂

reboot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842626#Comment_118842626

I've noticed quite a number of the larger buildings in US have 230v outlets,presumably for heavier load requirements on some equipment.

reboot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842480#Comment_118842480

Another sidepoint,by way of an observation. Would there be so many power outages in the US during storms if the copper cables were half as thick?

I've had sparks complain about house wiring when tungsten downlighters were fashionable, 12v 50 watt bulbs say, because they had to supply and run heavier cable than the normal 5amp lighting.

BBC maintance electronic workshop in Belfast had white,round 110 v DC sockets,as did Belfast Technical college.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842918#Comment_118842918

Power outages in the us if the cables were half as think? That one I can answer fairly definitively and the answer is no. Them yanks have the same grid infrastructure (cable thickness) as we do. Basically there are some fundamental laws of physics there and the grid operators use high voltage cables for long distance transmissions and it's those cables which are the ones which invariably get hit by trees etc when storms roll in. Most of the super high 400,000 volt cables are generally storm proof. it's the step down ones ~38,000 volts which are more suspetical I believe. So no I think they are the same there. It's only in the residential houses that they have a big difference. Interestingly 3 phase is much more common there as a result as over the years power requirements have meant that 110v has been limiting.

I had the misfortune of working on a a bunch of those 12V 50 Watt Reboot myself there about 4-5 years ago. In my case it was 220v to the recessed light fitting and there was a small 220-12 transformer located there, so the 12V run was only a few inches. Even took a picture of it....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/09obns3vat714t1/2016-02-29%2017.09.08.jpg?dl=0

Don't really like those 12 V halogens. The fecking heat off them is bonkers. Not really what you want in a wooden ceiling. (no it wasn't my choice but installed in the house which was built in 2005)

Reboot, i think you will like this guy.

(1846) 1473 Water Could Be The Answer To Home Energy Storage - YouTube

Very interesting topics he has.

Aside: We need a "general discussion" thread where we can shoot the **** on all manner of stuff like this. Renewable related of course, but people shouldn't be cast out for not being strictly "renewable".

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842918#Comment_118842918

Well its only 120v at the last transformer, rest of the grid is much much higher voltages. The thicker copper cables are only in the houses etc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842901#Comment_118842901

The US isnt just 120, its a split phase system, and to use their terms they have 2 "hot" wires in their panels, between each hot wire to ground is 120, but between the 2 hot wires its 240. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiwWaIvIeao < another video from electroboom, TLDW : the outlets in kitchen have both phases.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842660#Comment_118842660

Electoboom? Eevblog, codys lab...

reboot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843143#Comment_118843143

Understood and most informative, My eye still goes to very thick cables blowing between poles in storm videos.

Appreciate your superior knowledge on the subject.

All my terrestrial tv and dab radio just disappeared, because the sun came out,at the risk of crossing threads,try explaining that to Marconi !

reboot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118843134#Comment_118843134

Man below agrees and I understand and agree with both. Do you think that Ohms and Kirchoffs laws will ever get through Stormont?

the_amazing_raisin

A lot of the issues in the US are down to their somewhat relaxed attitude towards energy regulations

For example during the Texas blizzard, a lot of the coal and gas power plants weren't winterised, so they just froze solid

Similarly in California, PG&E have gotten sued multiple times for starting fires using outdated transmission equipment and overloading it

They're also screwed the other way as the US gets more extreme weather than us. I read an article that the geography of the US is basically perfect for creating violent storms. On top of that they get more extreme temperatures and generally poorly insulated houses, so demand is much higher in summer and winter

reboot

Agree with bullit that discussion could be opened up,but at the expense of pushback from folk who may like the idea of renewable, but just want to pick up the phone and ring the installer. Nothing wrong with that and people need to make a living.

There is also the attitude that Google and wiki have the answers,maybe they do,I just seem to ask the wrong questions.

Some time ago I posted a change in Bluetooth frequencies.only to have the post immediately moved to Sound where I couldn't find it myself. As you know Bluetooth was never developed for sound and its pretty useless in this household.OPALS is a vastly superior system to laying fibre cables, still on topic,cables. Elon Musk are using this laser system to the ISS. Seems there may never have been a need to dig .up the roads for Internet, or string cables,getting rid of copper in the process. This digital disservice leading to an inability to use the 50v dc on the copper to make calls when the power goes.

Think I managed to stay on topic re cables, and what they may be used for ,but maybe not?

TomWH

What's the output of your turbine? Was it worthwhile, I was hoping to erect a turbine about 30 metres from house, will the extra cable reduce power much?

samdeluxjones

I have just purchased a cheap weather station with wind speed meter so will be interesting to see our average wind speed. I'll post results. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0881W15PD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm on the south east coast and it's constantly windy even in the summer months so in theory a 1kW turbine with controller & inverter for around €1000 should cover the base load of our house which averages around 500W in the dark windy months of Nov, Dec, Jan & Feb.(combined with PV panels)

Even if it only covers half of that load it still should pay for itself after 5 years or this too simplified a view? I've watched all the YouTube videos and it seems there has to be savage wind to generate a small amount of power.

Way things are going everyone on the coast, up on a hill or in any exposed area should be harnessing free power that's almost guaranteed here very winter.

Anyone on the southeast coast that has a domestic wind turbine in operation I'd love the see the setup..

unkel

Hard to say but the biggest current turbines (16MW) are the most efficient. If you place them in the best constant wind area in the world (read: west coast of Ireland) at their enormous height of about 300m, they produce about 50% of their rating. So your 25% for a tiny domestic cheap Chinese turbine a few meters above ground level at land, not at sea, seems extremely optimistic to me.

But I guess an investment of €1000 (presuming this is fully DIY) is peanuts and you will learn a lot from the process. Make sure you have that weather station in the exact location (and height) of where you plan to install your turbine.