Thermal Rifle Scope

Zxthinger

Are thermals worth it.

Are the a sound purchase?

Whats the best value out there at an entry level and whats higher level units are worth the money for the professional hunt..

how much would you spend..

Not that I'm a professional.. but any insight would be great..

I'm running an axion XM30S IIRC do I have a good grasp of its limitations..if that helps as a reference point..

RD88

Thermal for spotting NV for shooting with having used both scopes I wouldn't have no interest whatsoever in a thermal scope at nearly 4 times the price.

clivej

First up I've only looked through a thermal scope. Not liked the best of them for magnifying the image.

I used NV for years. Always using an infer red torch.

First was a DIY set up with a very good 30mm x 30mm camera fixed to the back of my scope and a small LCD display on top. Worked very well but different to sight when looking at the LCD screen.

Next was a NV scope. That was very good.

Now using a PARD 8+. Best thing ever. And a lazer torch, I have to turn down the torch as it is far to bright. The PARD will adjust itself for what you see. 250m no problem for a shot. 13 power on the scope with double that with the PinP.

Not out night shooting these days as getting to old for it, but and thinking of selling the NV equipment.

keith s

Agree with RD88, thermal are the best spotter and NV for the scope. This is a great combo.

Problem I have with Thermal as a scope, is you cannot see branch's or similar obstacles that could be in line of the shot. Also, unless you go for a really good Thermal scope, quarry identification is a lot harder compared to NV, were you can see the hairs on the fox. I'm sure you would get used to thermal, but for me NV is the best scope type.

Also had a similar journey as Clive with NV upgrades. Now using a Pulsar c50 which I find great.

CharlieR

Do you have to get a permit for a NV scope? My 1st time getting a licence in Ireland.

keith s

You have to get permission to use it on each rifle, you apply with a letter to the attention of the superintendent (normally through your FAO).

Just like a request for a firearm, your letter will explain a valid reason for the request.

If granted, it would be added to the pulse system, but now (more recently) it seems that the letters SE (Sights Electronic) will be printed on your license if granted.

pab1997

Have a 3 month old iray TL35 V2 I’m thinking of selling if your interested 😅€3200 new looking €2700

CharlieR

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120306864#Comment_120306864

From that then I would assume NV or Thermal approval is a tough ask.

keith s

Not necessarily, write or type a letter explaining what you want to get authorisation to use, on what rifle and why you want to get it.

Having said that, like any request (ammunition allowance , mod) the granting of NV /Thermal is decided at local level, so (it shouldn't, but will) depend on the locals perception of such devices.

Realistically, if you shoot fox or rabbit at night NV is a much better way to do that job. Much safer as you can easily identify the target and background (as you should always!! Regardless)..

Zxthinger

I have never seen this SE on any licence I have and I applied for all with Nightvision scopes etc.

Can anyone confirm or validate this reference to SE on the printed licence..

tonysopprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341971#Comment_120341971

It seems that recently the FAC1 forms have been changed on PULSE but not on actual paper copies. After a nationwide GARDA update that nightvision or any sights emitting a beam are in actual fact, designated as firearms, in their own sense, and require authorisation. Search multiple threads on this forum. New applications that request nightvision/beam sights are getting SE on their licence, and it appears that this system will rollover on all renewals. Another worry for us is that in some Garda districts ammo limits are being reduced without consultations

BSA International

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120342618#Comment_120342618

Ammo limits defo being reduced. Orders from somewhere? Got 200 on a 22lr and a very active competition target shooter 😡 Commisioners Guidelines say in same situation 750-1000

Cass

The guidelines are just that, guidelines. Yes they're useful for helping navigate the firearm acts but this particular but, ammo limits, have no basis in law unlike some of the rest of the guidelines.

No part of any of the firearms acts have ammo limits. Yes you have to justify the amount you want but they [Super] cannot reduce or refuse to re-issue the amount you want based on nothing but personal decision.

If you need it, argue your case.

martbyr

Hi .....Just considering buying a thermal clip on for .22 and an air rifle that I have currently. I already use an NV scope but I think thermal is better at the end of the day . However I have just put deposit on a 243 caliber and I have been told that you wont get a licence for a NV or thermal on a 243 or higher caliber. I have a pest control company so I dont think there will be any difficulty getting the licence for the scope (hopefully). I cant find this restriction on the licencing laws and I dont want to go to local garda station just yet to inquire. Anyone help would be appreciated

Grizzly 45

I have been told that you wont get a licence for an NV or thermal on a 243 or higher calibre.

BShit!!. Someone was misinformed adding more confusion to a situation currently in upheaval. As it stands the law dealing with such is the offensive weapons act 1990, which states this is an authorisation by a superintendent.

Now with the Firearms Expert Committee supposedly examining this issue.AGS has ceased issuing authorisations for these units pending the findings.Or will only grant an authorisation if you have a restricted license. That's the best info we have at the moment from an aGS source.

Zxthinger

More chaos as per usual. I applied for NV on every firearm I own, giving explicit reasons with written submissions as to why and what they were needed for. And now I have to run the gauntlet again.. no I don’t think so.. I applied and the licence was issued.. I also request NV on a 270 for for section 42 work..

steyrman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120407316#Comment_120407316

Hi correct me if I’m wrong npws are not issuing section 42 with nv in fact any I got said the use of nv is not permitted have the changed there stance on this

Zxthinger

Well maybe your right.. I never got to do my name on the planned section 42 in the end. But as far as I recall once you had tye HCAP your were permitted to shoot deer at night..

I was going to be shooting them in allotments so it could only be done at night..

tomtucker81

A Section 42 application has a part where you request shooting at night, you're not permitted to shoot at night unless it states. I've had Sec 42s with and without night shooting, aka use of lamp.

A discussion with a ranger recently about lamp v NV, seems a lamp is favoured as it let's you see where you're shooting. My argument was NV allows me to see(even with ambient light at night) nearly everything in the field, not just what's in the beam of a torch.

I believe NV is way better for shooting, way safer in terms of vision etc. But that's just my opinion 🤷‍♀️ it just seemed backward thinking by npws imo

Asus1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120427823#Comment_120427823

Clearly they have never looked through a modern NV unit.It is 100% better and safer than a lamp as you say instead of a narrow lamp beam where you loose background definition the NV gives you excellent picture of the background as there's no real need to zoom in and narrow picture.Or they are just being told to say that as standard reply.

Zxthinger

When the lamp goes on you have fractions of a second to respond and take a shot., very difficult to do.. I know as I done it for years with foxing,,

Grizzly 45

The Committee is aware that there are public safety concerns regarding the use of these devices when mounted to a firearm. The NPWS advised the Committee that in its view thermal imaging devices should be handheld only and their use should be limited to searching for animals. The NPWS does not recommend the use of thermal imaging devices mounted to firearms, as they can be inaccurate when identifying the target and vegetation between the animal and the scope can go unseen. The Committee understands that differentiating between the heat signatures of some animals can be difficult and that the distance to the shooter and the target can also be misperceived - for instance, a small bird close to the user could appear on the device as a larger animal which is further away. The Committee agrees with the views of the NPWS and believes that a “safe shot” cannot be confirmed by relying on a thermal imaging device alone. 

Yeah,we might beg to differ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHflvwNJ3cs&ab_channel=Hoplopfheil

Zxthinger

The are oblivious to the modern renditions of thermal devices.

They new equipment with 12um sensors is nearly like a regular sight picture through a day scope..

Older units are poor and don’t regenerate small sticks and foliage..

Feisar

I'd shy away from arguing that Thermal/NV is safer than lamping, it implies that lamping isn't safe.

Asus1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434702#Comment_120434702

Its like the father Ted episode with Dougal in the caravan and explaining how the cows far away looked small

Grizzly 45

Yet lamping with an actual light is the one banned in most EU countries as being unsporting or poaching...But Thermal/NV is now being considerd a safer option....Go figure!

Grizzly 45

From Fr Jacks famous "FEC(K) Off!"ripose to the "small far away ..."scene to Garda Sgt Halligan wishing "he was back in Vietnam"I am truly beginning to belive this report WAS written on Craggy island!!!🤪

Oh lord!!!You really DO need a wonderful sense of humour to be a gun owner to put up with the clowns and comedians and circuses and black comedies that come with it in Ireland.🙄

Zxthinger

Next they’ll be making rules on trigger pull weights and banning guns with two triggers as they are twice as dangerous.. lol

desk_lamp

Kind of interesting. I just got my first license last week. I got the "S" and "SE" on the license. Not a problem, but I never applied for the electric sight. Has anyone else heard of this happening, where they just give you the "SE" without applying?

tikka646

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120560934#Comment_120560934

Yes,a friend of mine got licence granted last week for an additional rifle and the SE came printed on the licence. He hadn't applied for NV,just ticked the box for a scope.

keith s

I put ticked the box for sight (wasn't applying for NV, just a "normal" scope). My FAO called to ask if it was NV and I said no, he said because I ticked the box they thought it was NV which is now restricted licence and needed to be signed by the chief superintendent.

I've always ticked the box for sights, thinking it was for a normal scope and wrote a separate letter for any NV I wanted attached to a specific rifle, but was told this time that the sights box on the application is for NV.

I think after the FEC report, the stations are getting bits of information on potential upcoming changes and trying to implement them or else have been told different things.

J s682

Does anyone know what the current legislation is regarding night vision? I’ve been told I need to apply for a restricted license for the scope on its own, surely that could not be right!

Any help on this is much appreciated , thanks.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638150#Comment_120638150

Unfortunately, that is a fact. And it seems the aGS will only issue it if you already have a restricted firearms cert.[division depending]

J s682

What a load of nonsense, the joys of firearms ownership in Ireland. 🤦🏻‍♂️ Well I’ll just have to apply and see what happens, wish me luck 🤞

Thank you for the quick response Grizzly.

Zxthinger

Agh, the fools.. lol